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#374344 - 11/06/13 06:37 AM Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others
Hal2001 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 154
Loc: U.S.
Hi arranger owners. I have been postponing a Tyros or other arranger purchases for over 3 years because I could never find an arranger that had the best of what is available piecemeal across the major brands, but am now closer than ever to ordering (even pre-ordering) the T5 now that 76 keys are available. One other thing that was a concern for me in the past about Tyros was the plasticky key quality. I never played a Tyros but saw a non-working Tyros in a Guitar Center and thought the keys felt toy-like. I had some trials with the Korg Pa3x 76 and really liked the key quality and drum sounds but also admire Yamaha articulated sound quality. Can you players please tell me what are the advantages and disadvantages of the Tyros keys vs other arranger keys that seem more piano-like (what I'm more familiar with), Almost all demos I see of the T show it being used more like a piano than a synth so I wonder how comfortable it feels playing piano-style on these keys. P.S. Does anyone know if the Audya keys construction are more similar to the pa3x and, if they're different, how are they different? Thanks much. Like many of you, probably, I wish I could take the strengths of each manufacturer and put them together in the ultimate arranger. Thanks Hal
_________________________
My Music Channel is: www.youtube.com/Halunlimited
Korg Kronos 88 and Genos, Logic Pro, Omnisphere

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#374347 - 11/06/13 07:35 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
As far as I know, the Tyros5 uses the same great feeling semi-weighted FSX keyboard action, with velocity sensitivity and aftertouch, as Tyros2/3/4,

This FSX action was especially developed and used to provide better control of Yamaha's new SA/SA2 sounds.

The original Tyros did not have this FSX action; it was first introduced on the Tyros2.

The FSX action is also used on Yamaha's 61 and 76 key versions of the Motif XF, and the earlier Motif XS.

I believe you will find the Yamaha action comparable to what is used on the Korg PA3X.

The best action, in my opinion, for playing piano sounds, is an 88-note graded hammer weighted action keyboard, but for arranger playing purposes, the semi-weighted action works fine, and is better suited for playing the instrument's other sounds (strings, organ, brass, guitar etc.) than the weighted version.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374359 - 11/06/13 10:48 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
According to this



The Tyros action has changed several times, with only the T4 and T5 having the newer action. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, though..?

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#374362 - 11/06/13 11:16 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Diki]
Hal2001 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 154
Loc: U.S.
Thank you Ian and Diki for your very helpful information. Now I can rationalize to myself that, even though the key construction quality is not as solid as I'd personally prefer, I will be getting some very special Yamaha sounds and effects via the key action that is part of that design.
_________________________
My Music Channel is: www.youtube.com/Halunlimited
Korg Kronos 88 and Genos, Logic Pro, Omnisphere

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#374364 - 11/06/13 11:57 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
You are reading it right, Diki, as that's what the chart shows, however, that 3rd line appears to be incorrect.

From Yamaha sites:

"Articulation Element Modeling (AEM) is the technology for simulating this characteristic of instruments. During performance, the most appropriate sound samples are selected in sequence in real time, from huge quantities of sampled data. They are smoothly joined and sounded - as would naturally occur on an actual acoustic instrument.

AWM is Yamaha's original system for effectively using sampled waveforms in synthesizers and tone generators. The strength of AWM synthesis lies not only in its extraordinary ability to "shape" and control the sound of the samples with a comprehensive system of envelope generators, filters, key scaling parameters, modulation, and more. AWM voices can have from 1 to 4 AWM elements. Each AWM element can use a preset wave or a sampled waveform. The ability to combine AWM elements means that you can, for example, combine separate samples for the attack and sustain portions of an instrument's sound, with independent control over each."

FSX is the designation given to a type of semi-weighted keyboard action used on Tyros2/3/4 and Motif XF/XS.

All the above arranger models use AWM as a sound source.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374377 - 11/06/13 07:49 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I thought something looked iffy... But I thought the new action only appeared in the T3?

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#374380 - 11/06/13 09:04 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Yep, it started on Tyros2 ...follow link below, and click on Specs.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-i...os2/?mode=model

It was initially designed specifically for the Tyros2's new SA Voices, although the Combo Division, at that time, also wanted (and got) it for their Motif line.

As far as I know, the first Tyros was not made in Japan (it was made in Indo-China, I believe), and the keyboard action, although pretty good (velocity and aftertouch), was not quite in the same league as the FSX design...the latter had a deeper throw, a tad more resistance, and improved aftertouch response.

Tyros2/3/4, were all made in Japan, and I expect that's where Tyros5 will be manufactured.

I asked why the original Tyros's keyboard wasn't kept and used in the higher end of the PSR line, but no one offered any reason, so it must have been a cost issue, probably to keep price competitive with other brands, but that's just a guess.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374404 - 11/07/13 09:22 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Would you care to elaborate on why a better action would be needed for SA voices in the Tyros? Especially given that SA voices are in current TOTL PSR's, with no improvement in the action for them...

Thing is, examine any Yamaha keyboard in the same price range as the PSR S950, why do they get decent actions and ONLY the PSR gets the BOTL action? I'm afraid you can't persuade me that a modern Yamaha WS is any less complicated than an arranger. So how does the Combo manage to afford the decent action and the PSR doesn't?

Other than, maybe, pure profit?

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#374412 - 11/07/13 10:54 AM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: Hal2001]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Elaborate? 'Fraid not.

I just play them, I don't need to explain them.

Nowadays, I just read the specs like you and everyone else.

Most importantly, all I need to know is that the Tyros4 has that great FSX action, was made in Japan, is bought and paid for, and is sitting here on my keyboard stand, lights ablinkin'.

Just one of the many perks of being retired.

Do some of your serious investigating and when and if you find out, put it in your little handy dandy Dikipedia folder for future reference.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#374419 - 11/07/13 01:24 PM Re: Tyros keys - Advantages & Disadvantages vs others [Re: ianmcnll]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll

It was initially designed specifically for the Tyros2's new SA Voices, although the Combo Division, at that time, also wanted (and got) it for their Motif line.


That's the line got me curious, Ian... you said it, not me.

What about the SA voices NEEDED a better action?

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