I'll let you know when that is ... keep waiting

I have always felt that action feel (on a properly functioning arranger keyboard) has always been personal opinion...I have played Roland, Korg, and Yamaha that I liked, and some I didn't like so much.

I would never trust another player's opinion on key action feel...I have to try for myself. Some SZ'ers have raved about certain key actions, and when I tried them, my rating was sometimes the same, and, sometimes considerably less.

We must remember, none of us play arranger in exactly the same manner, and we all grew up musically on different types of instruments (and some started out on instruments other than keyboards) so we all have developed key action preferences due to habit, what was available, and what we could afford.

My preference is now the Tyros4, mainly because it is very similar to my all time favorite key action, the Yamaha DX-7. I could live with the lighter action on PSR, Roland, Korg as I also played some synths with the same basic feel, and have no absolutely no trouble adapting to it's disadvantages and exploiting it's advantages.

Getting in another frivolous contest of urinary supremacy over what action is better has gotten real old and tired on SZ...nearly as worn out as what brand sounds "better" than another, and, if you read back on older posts, you will find that none of these tournaments has changed anyone's opinion in the least.

Ian

Amen, Ian.

I have to say I had the opportunity to try the 950 at Frank's and for whatever reason I didn't like the keys ... I didn't take the time to analyze it, but I didn't care for it ... might I be able to get used to it? - probably, if I HAD to ...
I prefer the keys on my kn6000 and Pa600 ...
but what do I know?!? ...
oh, wait ... I know what I like ...

I'm sure glad I have those flimsy, small keys. If I those firm, semi-weighted, or better yet, fully weighted, keys, I would be working so much I wouldn't have time to sail my boat at all. I would have to hire a roadie, a sound guy, a female vocalist, and probably a live drummer because I just wouldn't be able to handle the work load by myself. I would be playing with so much expression someone would probably write a movie script about me, then ask me to play the staring role. Damned, I wouldn't even have enough time to sleep. Yeah - right!

Cheers,

Gary

Duplicate post - sorry!

Look Gary, bottom line is, even Yamaha think their PSR action is so excremental they don't inflict it on their MUCH larger synth and WS market segment!

You compare the PSR action with anything else they make (even synths and WS's half the price of the S950 and under) and they are MUCH better keybeds.

The reason why PSR users say they love that action so much? They have no choice! You want to play a PSR, you HAVE to use that action. And then self justification creeps in. Like I said, if Yamaha ever develop a sense of shame, and replace the PSR action with something only as good as a $1000 WS, you will be singing its praises.

Take Ian. For YEARS he defended that PSR action while he had one. But now he has a Tyros4 with its much better, crisper action, he is finally admitting he really likes it. After saying the exact opposite for the longest time. What changed? Only his ownership... The action on the T4 (similar to most decent arrangers) is still the same.

Sure, you can get USED to anything..! But that doesn't make it any good. Just what you are resigned to.


BTW... the G70's keys are still slightly shorter than a piano's.

BTW, Gary... BK-9 (with a fantastic 76 action) is 5 lbs. LIGHTER than your S950. Maybe you won't need the roadies after all? You sure won't need a real drummer (it sounds like one, unlike the PSR!).

Hey, what changed was my mind, and I do reserve the right to do that at any time...you managed to change your opinions of lighter no aftertouch actions and non-touch screens when the BK-9 came out (and, of course you bought one) so I'm allowed at least a little leniency...okay?

I don't think that makes us both hypocrites, now, does it? I know I feel very comfortable with my decision.

The only Tyros I didn't fussy was the Tyros1, which used a completely different action (with aftertouch) than the subsequent FSX models...it was also not made in Japan. Some people liked it...I didn't.

I have always liked the PSR action, which is why I considered buying an S910, but having the aftertouch, and all the other neat features (plus the better d/a converters, sounds, etc.) of the Tyros4 at a very lucrative price sealed the deal immediately. I did find it a change going to the semi-weighted T4 action after playing the PSR, but, hey, like you, I can adapt, especially considering the rewards...and yes, now I like it...a lot!

However, if anyone does not like PSR action, that is not my problem, nor do I intend to try and convince anyone else to change their feelings towards it if it doesn't meet their needs. I happen to like it, as do many here on SZ. It is smooth, fast, and very reliable...it's not going to be changed as far as I know.

So, don't worry about us happy Yamaha users...if you haven't noticed, we've survived very well...thank you very much.

Ian

PS...all kidding aside, I'm very grateful that I was able to get the Tyros4...it's a beauty of an arranger, and I am thoroughly enjoying digging deep into it's wonderful features, and now, being retired with lots of time, I can really enjoy just playing for pure personal enjoyment. No plans for gigging as of now, unless someone has lotsa $$$$ to tempt me.

Haven't changed my opinion in the slightest. Would happily pay more for a BK-9 with the G70 action. But let's face it, as different as the BK-9 action is, it STILL is absolutely superior to the PSR's (at a very similar pricepoint). In fact, I think you would like it immensely, Ian. It is quite DX-7-like.

TBH, if the DX-7 is your gold standard, how you were able to tolerate something so utterly different and inferior by a wide margin all those years is beyond me. Look, we all play what we HAVE to play. But, as far as I am concerned, just because I HAVE to play something (it's not like I am turning down the opportunity to play an arranger with a better action because of cost considerations or brand loyalty), if it has quality issues, I'll say it. I don't care whether I'm a critic of my OWN arranger or anyone else's. If something stinks, I'll say it loud and clear.

I don't 'defend' my choice for years and then change my opinion after I've got something else. Heck, who knows... I might end up on a PSR one day. But one thing you'll NEVER hear me say even if I have one is that the action is good. It stinks, it has always stunk, and you know it now (or are willing to admit that there IS something better, which you wouldn't do back in your PSR days. despite being intimately familiar with actions you liked better).

I've got no choice with the BK-9. Unlike the Yamaha's, Roland don't currently make an arranger with a better action than the BK-9. It's a really good action. But it isn't as good as the G70's.

There... I said it!

If only all of us were able to sit back and call a spade a spade. Maybe out manufacturers would take us seriously, and DO SOMETHING about how bad the PSR's actions are. But while owners won't dare speak up about it until they finally get on something else, in some kind of misguided 'loyalty' attitude, what are the odds..? It's not like Yamaha couldn't afford to replace the PSR action with something better. They do on the MUCH less expensive WS's. Maybe all this silence has simply made them feel like it IS a good action?

Nah... it just makes them realize what suckers arranger owners can be about model loyalty! So why change..? That has GOT to be a MUCH cheaper action. More bucks for Yamaha, bad actions for their arranger owners. That makes good sense, doesn't it?