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#347689 - 07/24/12 08:52 AM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: Stephenm52]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Stephenm52
Originally Posted By: Dnj
why explain to anyone ...... most only wish they could make a FULL time living playing music.....I feel blessed that I can...end of story.

Signed a proud Pro Musician, Singer, DJ, KJ.


Great point Donny, no doubt about it and this comes from a frustrated musician who knows he could have never made a living full time in music. Some got it and some don't. I do make a good living but I'm knocking myself silly with the daily commute to metro Boston each day, I'm in the car about 2.5 hours for a 110 mile round trip commute.........and leave the house at 5:30 AM..... then get home at 5 PM. I do like my work and when things go right like they happen to be right now it's not like work.............. nevertheless when you're blessed with enough musical talent to make a living out of it and be able to play golf or fish or whatever your past time is, that's hard to beat. God bless those that can and do so.

I love jazz and would like to play it even more, but I can't so I stick to an arranger and just have some fun and play a few gigs here and there.


Good post Steve... like anything else your HAVE TO WORK HARD for what your dream is ... and since I added the versatility of DJ'ing services to my live performing services things are getting diversely more profitable in many ways as many DJ gigs bring 3x-4x more,........
good luck to you buddy!


Edited by Dnj (07/24/12 08:53 AM)

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#347691 - 07/24/12 08:56 AM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: cgiles]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I didn't mean for my post to sound hostile, just explaining that I like what I do for a living, and the way I do it, at least most of the time, and very few people can say that!
Time to warm up for my tee time. Shouldn't be too hard as the the temperature will reach 100 this afternoon.
I have to play golf because it's too hot to fish.
DonM
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DonM

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#347699 - 07/24/12 09:31 AM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: cgiles]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By: DonM
I didn't mean for my post to sound hostile, ...
DonM


Me neither, and I don't think it did, but then we never know how the 'typed' word is going to be interpreted ...


Originally Posted By: cgiles
I think the point of posts such as this one is to stimulate discussion, not hostility. There's no law that says we all have to agree on everything (except for Gary's speedy recovery). I guess the original question is not very clear. It could be anything from 'which would you hire to do a wedding' to 'who is the more legitimate musician'. Depends on the venue, depends on your taste in music, depends on way too many variables to say anything definitively. Therefore, the only value to a post like this is mainly social interaction. That being the case, why not keep it friendly.

chas


As to who I would hire for a wedding, it would depend on the audience ... If I at age 71 were getting re-married OR celebrating my 50th wedding anniversary as we will next year, I would be well satisfied with a duo or trio that would be able to perform the type of music WE like - some light jazz and bossa novas during cocktails, some of the same and standards from the Great American Song book during dinner, some dance music from the 50s through the 80s after dinner ... and I KNOW a group that could do that ... party
I also know that there are arranger players on this forum who could do this ... perhaps using some backing tracks for some of the dance stuff, but they would do a very fine job ...
If someone in their 30s is getting married, they will opt for a DJ because everything HAS to sound like the record, so why not play the record ... frown ...
Of course in the greater NY area you can find 8 to 10 piece BANDS that can actually do this, but you are going to pay upwards of $10,000 for the night ... eek2

As for who is the more legitimate musician, IMHO, I don't consider a DJ a musician ... now he/she MAY be one - like Donny - but while spinning records or whatever, I don't think so ...

So once, again, due to my age, background, personal tastes, etc., for ME it would be live music - even if backing tracks are ADDED - over DJ 99% of the time ...

Some people like the subtle taste of Vanilla, some like the 'wildness of Rocky Road ... ME? ... I'm somewhere in the Butter Pecan/Pistachio area ... grin

Now if I am going out for a night of listening to music, my first choice is going to be live jazz ... but I would NOT walk out on a performer playing and singing with an arranger ... after all, that's what I do ... and enough people have told me they really enjoy it ...
grin
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t. cool

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#347708 - 07/24/12 10:23 AM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: cgiles]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I am starting to see some fairly major jazz (or at least smooth jazz) artists occasionally playing to tracks, and many of their albums, while not necessarily in the abyss of stock arranger use, don't honestly sound like they sat down with a bunch of real musicians and jammed...

I think we beat ourselves up too much about 'arranger vs. musician' polemics. You do what you WANT to do, either economically, artistically, or, as in the case of some of the smooth jazzers (who could put a real band together if they really WANTED to have the extra expense), both! And what you want to do is influenced by many factors. Some of which involve putting meat on the table, or not playing to empty rooms.

So you take what YOU would prefer, and then figure out if you can afford to do it! If not, you end up doing some things that, if you were Oscar Peterson and had an unlimited budget paid for by your record company, you might NOT. Big deal. This is the real world.

But... when we come to a site like this, for MUSICIANS that use arrangers, we spend way too much of our time defending our compromises, instead of concentrating on MUSIC, musicianship, and co-operative help and self-help, criticism (yes, there's a place for it in a sequestered venue like this... we aren't out in public airing our dirty laundry!). I can assure you, most forums for synth players spend virtually NO TIME AT ALL discussing how many gigs they did that week or whether they DJ'd at it to make sure they got the gig they wouldn't have if it was only down to their playing.

Somehow, all these guys want to talk about is synths, and how to use them, mod them, improve them, show of a trick they learned, discuss how some of the chart toppers used this synth or that synth, etc.. Why do only we beat ourselves up about what you have to do to make money, on a forum that ISN'T the 'Professional NH Performer' forum, or the "Dept. Store Background Musician' forum or the 'Pizza Hut Performer' forum?

I'd be a lot happier here if WORK wasn't discussed AT ALL. It seems to be so divisive, and honestly doesn't have a lot to do with music. Compromise is the center of any performing arts scene. Everyone from Mozart to Nat King Cole to Madonna have made compromises between what they would have PREFERRED to do and what they needed to do for their careers. And anyone that is saying otherwise here isn't really making a living playing music. Probably they are retired, have other jobs, whatever...

Let's just stick to music...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#347711 - 07/24/12 10:40 AM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: Dnj]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: Dnj
why explain to anyone ...... after 40+ years of performing I could care less what anyone here thinks of how and why I do it..... most only wish they could make a FULL time living playing music.....I feel blessed that I can...end of story.

Signed a proud Pro Musician, Singer, DJ, KJ.


I know a builder in my neighborhood that has been building crappy houses for 40 years. Few are still standing and the ones that are I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But he's made a decent living at it so I guess you'd have to call him a 'Pro'.

Whenever someone ends a post in what is supposed to be an open discussion with "end of story", that tells me that they are not interested in anyone's opinion but their own and that their view on the subject is the one and only gospel. Donny, trust me on this; not everybody wishes they were you. Nor do most regret choosing the path they did instead of being a full-time musician/entertainer. You seem to be trying very hard to defend something that doesn't need defending. As with EVERYONE, your life choices are valid for you.

I know that the wording of your post is meant largely to reflect how you feel about me on a personal level, just as I know there will always be one or two of your followers standing by ready to 'amen' it. That's okay. Just means that there are some people out there that share your values.

Some people believe that the word 'Pro' means someone that's making a (sole source) living in a profession. Others think of a 'Pro' as someone with a certain level of expertise in a given profession or who have been licensed or certificated by the government. But even among acknowledged 'Pros' such as doctors, lawyers, teachers, airline pilots, etc., there are still good ones and bad ones. Whether or not one is a 'Pro' musician depends upon the criteria used.

So back to the original question, OMB or DJ? ....but wait, haven't we already decided that that question, without additional qualifiers, cannot be answered. Have a nice day.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#347712 - 07/24/12 10:51 AM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: cgiles]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
One thing no-one has really discussed is, is just spinning some mp3's really 'DJ'ing'?

I mean, I rather doubt many here on this forum have gone out to a nightclub or rave where REAL 'DJ's' do their thing. The best of them, like the best musicians, are capable of pulling something out of their equipment lesser performers can't find. Not ALL of them simply download other DJ's mixes and mashups. Some of them are as creative and technical as any of us.

But it seems like anyone that wants to sit behind a laptop and program the order of what their iTunes program plays next wants to call themselves a DJ...

That's pretty much like a One Finger Chord, out of time one finger melody arranger player calling themselves a 'musician'. I suppose, in the MOST broad definition of the word, they are. But no musician would agree with them

And no REAL DJ will ever admit that running an iPod on break is DJ'ing.

Hire a REAL DJ for that wedding, chas. Don't settle for any old kid with a laptop and some speakers and lights! What you see isn't necessarily what you get!


Edited by Diki (07/24/12 10:51 AM)
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#347743 - 07/24/12 02:04 PM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: cgiles]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Wow diki and Chas must be lonely .....I see they are back with
vengence.......its on baby again.....lol

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#347755 - 07/24/12 05:04 PM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: Dnj]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
I don't think there is anything "ON" but open discussion ... IF that's what we want ...
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t. cool

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#347761 - 07/24/12 07:12 PM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: tony mads usa]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: tony mads usa
I don't think there is anything "ON" but open discussion ... IF that's what we want ...


That's certainly what I want, Tony......and thanks for speaking up.....sanely.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#347766 - 07/24/12 10:02 PM Re: OMB or DJ? [Re: cgiles]
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
DonM,
I thought you were a real musician. You mention all the musical instruments you play. Man any real musician knows that drummers are not musicians and drums are not an instrument. They're a set of noise makers.
Shame on you!!

A hunter in the jungle kept complaining about the drums going day and night without let up. The guide kept telling him that the drums were good. The guide told him that when the drums stopped it was bad.

After a couple of weeks the drums stopped, and the hunter asked the guide with a sound of fear in his voice, "What now?"
The guide says, "Bass solo.?
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I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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