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#345905 - 06/20/12 04:14 PM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: bruno123]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Sorry – but if you want this thread to succeed it has got stay simple for those who do not know – and possibly the more advanced player may pick up something they have overlooked.

This is not a John show it belongs to everyone but --- too much information will destroy it. Give your info sparingly. (My opinion)

My example:
When I moved to Florida I went to get a real-estate licenses. I was told I could take the course that was needed over a three month period or take a crash course in one week – hours were 8AM to 7AM. I selected the crash course. The instructed told us that there will be so many laws and facts to remember that by the third day you will be completely confused; but by the end of the week it will fit together. He was right; I took the test received a high score and got my licenses. Three weeks later most of what I had learned had gone. Put it in fast and it leaves just as fast.
If this thread and my posts are going in the wrong direction please let me know.

John C.

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#345907 - 06/20/12 05:11 PM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: captain Russ]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
The great jazz educator Dan Haerle resently posted this on his FB status:

" I have good news and bad news: The bad news is when I was young we didn't have fakebooks and we had to learning everything by ear. The good news is when I was young we didn't have fakebooks and we had to learn everything by ear"
_________________________
It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCV94i--V-A8kZShmGTKyDOw

https://www.facebook.com/elgrupocache

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#345908 - 06/20/12 07:20 PM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: brickboo]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2195
Originally Posted By: brickboo
124, I just put the info for building chord structure for ones who may not know the basics.

You know there were many mistakes in the old fake books that we had to buy on the black market years ago. Not so, with the new legal ones printed today. There may be a mistake here or there but nothing like the old books

You'd be surprised how much you will progress if you work with one. As you start to use the more complex tunes, you’ll get exactly what many musicians are looking for. That's a feel for and a knowledge of how everything comes together. You'll see how one tune relates to another tune with similar chord structure.

For example: One day you may be working on a tune in the key of C and figure out that where there is an E7 chord coming up you may want to try a Bm7 or a Bm7b5 right before the E7 chord. Why? Because a month back you actually ran across this E7 chord in another tune where the Bm7 or Bm7b5 was written into the chord structure just before the E7 in the same key of C.. This happens all over the place in all the different keys. The Bm7 or Bm7b5 in this instance would be the "Passing chord. The E7 is the primary chord.

"Maybe the person who wrote this song that you're working on now, really didn't understand chord structure and was just copying the chords from a another song that he was familiar with that some "country song writer wrote. Ha ha! (This will get DonM commenting again. Incidentally, it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to copy DonM's attitude. Man he has thick skin. I think that's why he is more popular here than the rest of us!!))

I hope that I’m explaining all of this right. I know when my high school teacher sat down and showed me at the piano for maybe 10 minutes this number system for figuring out how to build a chord, it was like someone opened a huge barn door in my head. And guess what? I’m not a pimple on a rocket scientist’s A$$.

Man I hope one serious minded learning musician on this forum gets something out of all of this posting. I'd consider the time that we spent well worth it and a success.

Boo, thanks for another solid reply. I feel I've benefitted from your advice, and I'll stick with the fakebook approach.

Russ: Thanks for starting this thread. When I first saw it, I thought it could be a bit touchy - you know how things sometimes go on SZ, but it's turned out well.

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#345911 - 06/20/12 08:29 PM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: captain Russ]
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
Thanks to everyone for your educated and well thought out responses. I'm am grateful that you appreciate learning more about music just as I and others on this forum do.

As you go along, you will never regret improving your musician-ship. As a matter of fact, I'm positive that you will enjoy the learning experience and your progress too. I wish good fortune in this endeavor to you.
Thanks again.
Boo
_________________________
I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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#345912 - 06/20/12 10:22 PM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: captain Russ]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
No time to defend myself Boo. I'm working every night and playing golf or fishing every day, just as a musician should!
I think I played a flatted 12th note tonight, but not certain. It was what is known as an accidental. Sure hope somebody noticed it.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#345924 - 06/21/12 07:14 AM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: DonM]
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
Don, I think that would be the flatted 5th. If you knew that that was wrong it would actually be a goof-up or a mistake not an accidental. If you had no clue as to what you were doing, that's what is known as an unlearned music tinkerer. Of course, I know you are just putting me on as I am now doing to you. Ha ha!

When I gigged with you, the only two mistakes you made that I could tell, was playing “Yakety Sax” setting the tempo at 2000 BPM, which is excessively fast for any sax player. Only an experienced keyboardist could play that tune that fast. That was mistake #1.

Mistake #2 was when we finished your gig and you took me to the hottest nightclub in town and made me get up to play with a group of real musicians that I didn’t even know existed. I think they didn't appreciate that either even though they were polite. I owe you one for that ("FRIEND")

Tell Susan and the young men I said hello, and give them my best EH?
_________________________
I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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#345931 - 06/21/12 08:43 AM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: captain Russ]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I would have had to break your arm to keep you off that stage! And you MORE than held your own with the pickers that night. I think a couple of them raised enough fifths to diminish enough vodka to augment their ability to slur notes!
smile
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#345933 - 06/21/12 09:06 AM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: DonM]
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
See? Mason is a success because he knows what's important!


R.

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#345934 - 06/21/12 09:27 AM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: captain Russ]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I guess I look at this a bit differently than some. In my case, I'm a performer/entertainer/singer that uses a keyboard. I'm NOT a musician, I never claimed to be a musician, I didn't come to an Arranger Keyboard Forum to learn the basics of music - I came here a decade ago to learn about Arranger Keyboards and what makes them tick.

When I arrived I was greeted by Uncle Dave, DNJ, Fran, Boo, and a few others. I learned a lot from them - no doubt about it. Within the same year I had the opportunity to visit with all of the above members, with the exception of Boo, who invited me to go fishing with him in Colorado. I went to New Jersey and Philadelphia to see all of them perform, look at their sound systems, and learned a lot more about improving myself as an entertainer. It was a wonderful experience that was repeated on several occasions.

A few years later I traveled to the sunny south, drove more than 5,000 miles, and met up with Joe Waters from PSR-Tutorial and his beautiful wife. From their home in Virginia, my wife and I traveled to North Carolina to meet up with The Pro, (Jim), then to northern Florida, where we watched several other OMB performers ply their trade.

South Florida is where Eddie (btweengigs) entertains at various animal clubs and does an outstanding job at keeping the dance-floor packed to capacity. We keep in touch on the telephone and internet every week. The southwest coast of Florida is where Charlie Ohram applies his magic to creating and modifying style files that he shares with the entire world. Charlie also has a huge collection of vintage organs and arranger keyboards that in some cases he completely restored.

I traveled northwest and met up with Scott Langholff and his wife, had an enjoyable dinner at a nearby restaurant, and talked about entertainment opportunities on the Florida Panhandle. We also met up with Diki and Randy (saxman), had a few margarettas, and had lots of laughs that evening.

The next stop was Bossier City, LA, where I witnessed a true master performing - Don Mason. Like most of the audience at Ernest's Restaurant that night, we were enjoying the wonderful music and songs Don performed, most of which was country, but there were other song styles as well. His wife Susan joined us a bit later on and we feasted on some traditional southern cuisine. I learned a lot from Don, and still keep learning from him. He IS the master of arranger keyboards.

I also got to meet HankB (Lurker), a great entertainer in his own wright, and we talked almost daily for years after I returned home. I also met a number of other wonderful musicians and entertainers including Bill Pittman (semilivemusic), Deane (hammer), and some of the regions best guitar players.

On the way home we stopped in Mississippi, met with Bill Gross and his wife, and Bill is a fantastic technician and keyboard player that knows Yamaha's operating systems inside and out. I learned a lot from Bill, and he says he learned a lot from me.

A few weeks after returning home we had a wonderful visit from TonyM and his beautiful wife Lydia. I fired up the gas grill, burned some fillet mignon, they got to meet my daughter and grandson and we had a fantastic evening. Later that month, TomG and his lovely wife came to town, they went with me to a nursing home job, I applied my culinary skills on the grill again, and after dinner they headed off for another visit in New Jersey.

Over the years I've talked several times with Scott Yee and Bill from Dayton on the telephone, and a couple of times Captain Russ has called. I've learned a lot from both of them.

This forum has always been one that I considered as informational and educational when it comes to arranger keyboards, sound systems, mics, and a host of other equipment utilized by both home and pro players. It's a place where a person can come and learn the ins and outs of arranger keyboards from individuals who play for a living, as well as those who just play for their own, personal enjoyment.

Now, there are some folks here that are highly skilled and trained musicians. Some attended world renown musical institutions, some spent years learning every aspect of music on their own, and these individuals can play every chord known to mankind. In the world of music, at least from my perspective, these are indeed rare individuals, especially when they have the ability and knowledge to utilize this knowledge to make a living. For this, they should be applauded.

Then, there are others here, a much larger category, of which I and many others fit into - entertainers. We're not great musicians, we can play a couple dozen chords, our right hand abilities vary, and a significant number of us cannot read a note. However, when we step up to the keyboard, we immediately gain the attention and adoration of our audiences, we get their toes tapping, they sing along with us, they pack the dance-floors. We get accolades from everyone, including other musicians who happen to be in the audiences, some come up ask about the equipment and rave about the music we produce with these wonderful tools. In more than 50 years of playing guitar and arranger keyboard, no one, not even some of the best musicians in the audiences, has ever come up to me and said "Hey, you missed those passing chords on the bridge of Unchained Melody and the song really sounded lousy because of it." (Forgot about the one time Bill From Dayton said something about playing a song in a chord that it was not originally written. That was several years ago.)

As an entertainer, I guess I've been somewhat successful. When I have a day off, which is rare, if the weather cooperates, I go sailing on the waters of Chesapeake Bay. I get to take my grandson hiking, fishing, boating, and spend some time shooting wildlife photos. When the weather's really nasty, such as today, 101-degres, 100-percent humidity, I'll spend time learning a new song, one that I like but have never performed. I'll usually record the song, listen to myself, then spend time refining the song until I feel it can be used on stage.

I'll check in on the Synthzone, PSR-Tutorial, Sailnet, look at some of the posts, then go to work on something. This has been a daily routine for a decade and it probably won't change anytime soon. Tonight, I'll be performing at an upscale retirement community for about 120 people, I'll probably miss lots of passing chords, I'll have a ball, my audiences will have a ball, the dance-floor will be filled and with luck I'll have a Conga-Line snaking through the room and out into the corridors while playing and singing Hot Hot Hot.

I'm not really sure if this addresses the OP, but in some respects I get the feeling it was directed at me, and others, that have recently posted excerpts from musical performances. I sincerely hope not, but it sure seems that way to me. If that was the case, I'm glad you took time to watch the videos, and hope those that did watch them learned something from intent of the post, which was to show how a $29 video camera can be a beneficial tool at improving performances.

Gotta' go to work,

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (06/21/12 09:31 AM)
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#345936 - 06/21/12 10:25 AM Re: You LIKE me...now what? [Re: travlin'easy]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: travlin'easy
I guess I look at this a bit differently than some. In my case, I'm a performer/entertainer/singer that uses a keyboard. I'm NOT a musician, I never claimed to be a musician, I didn't come to an Arranger Keyboard Forum to learn the basics of music - I came here a decade ago to learn about Arranger Keyboards and what makes them tick.

When I arrived I was greeted by Uncle Dave, DNJ, Fran, Boo, and a few others. I learned a lot from them - no doubt about it. Within the same year I had the opportunity to visit with all of the above members, with the exception of Boo, who invited me to go fishing with him in Colorado. I went to New Jersey and Philadelphia to see all of them perform, look at their sound systems, and learned a lot more about improving myself as an entertainer. It was a wonderful experience that was repeated on several occasions.

A few years later I traveled to the sunny south, drove more than 5,000 miles, and met up with Joe Waters from PSR-Tutorial and his beautiful wife. From their home in Virginia, my wife and I traveled to North Carolina to meet up with The Pro, (Jim), then to northern Florida, where we watched several other OMB performers ply their trade.

South Florida is where Eddie (btweengigs) entertains at various animal clubs and does an outstanding job at keeping the dance-floor packed to capacity. We keep in touch on the telephone and internet every week. The southwest coast of Florida is where Charlie Ohram applies his magic to creating and modifying style files that he shares with the entire world. Charlie also has a huge collection of vintage organs and arranger keyboards that in some cases he completely restored.

I traveled northwest and met up with Scott Langholff and his wife, had an enjoyable dinner at a nearby restaurant, and talked about entertainment opportunities on the Florida Panhandle. We also met up with Diki and Randy (saxman), had a few margarettas, and had lots of laughs that evening.

The next stop was Bossier City, LA, where I witnessed a true master performing - Don Mason. Like most of the audience at Ernest's Restaurant that night, we were enjoying the wonderful music and songs Don performed, most of which was country, but there were other song styles as well. His wife Susan joined us a bit later on and we feasted on some traditional southern cuisine. I learned a lot from Don, and still keep learning from him. He IS the master of arranger keyboards.

I also got to meet HankB (Lurker), a great entertainer in his own wright, and we talked almost daily for years after I returned home. I also met a number of other wonderful musicians and entertainers including Bill Pittman (semilivemusic), Deane (hammer), and some of the regions best guitar players.

On the way home we stopped in Mississippi, met with Bill Gross and his wife, and Bill is a fantastic technician and keyboard player that knows Yamaha's operating systems inside and out. I learned a lot from Bill, and he says he learned a lot from me.

A few weeks after returning home we had a wonderful visit from TonyM and his beautiful wife Lydia. I fired up the gas grill, burned some fillet mignon, they got to meet my daughter and grandson and we had a fantastic evening. Later that month, TomG and his lovely wife came to town, they went with me to a nursing home job, I applied my culinary skills on the grill again, and after dinner they headed off for another visit in New Jersey.

Over the years I've talked several times with Scott Yee and Bill from Dayton on the telephone, and a couple of times Captain Russ has called. I've learned a lot from both of them.

This forum has always been one that I considered as informational and educational when it comes to arranger keyboards, sound systems, mics, and a host of other equipment utilized by both home and pro players. It's a place where a person can come and learn the ins and outs of arranger keyboards from individuals who play for a living, as well as those who just play for their own, personal enjoyment.

Now, there are some folks here that are highly skilled and trained musicians. Some attended world renown musical institutions, some spent years learning every aspect of music on their own, and these individuals can play every chord known to mankind. In the world of music, at least from my perspective, these are indeed rare individuals, especially when they have the ability and knowledge to utilize this knowledge to make a living. For this, they should be applauded.

Then, there are others here, a much larger category, of which I and many others fit into - entertainers. We're not great musicians, we can play a couple dozen chords, our right hand abilities vary, and a significant number of us cannot read a note. However, when we step up to the keyboard, we immediately gain the attention and adoration of our audiences, we get their toes tapping, they sing along with us, they pack the dance-floors. We get accolades from everyone, including other musicians who happen to be in the audiences, some come up ask about the equipment and rave about the music we produce with these wonderful tools. In more than 50 years of playing guitar and arranger keyboard, no one, not even some of the best musicians in the audiences, has ever come up to me and said "Hey, you missed those passing chords on the bridge of Unchained Melody and the song really sounded lousy because of it." (Forgot about the one time Bill From Dayton said something about playing a song in a chord that it was not originally written. That was several years ago.)

As an entertainer, I guess I've been somewhat successful. When I have a day off, which is rare, if the weather cooperates, I go sailing on the waters of Chesapeake Bay. I get to take my grandson hiking, fishing, boating, and spend some time shooting wildlife photos. When the weather's really nasty, such as today, 101-degres, 100-percent humidity, I'll spend time learning a new song, one that I like but have never performed. I'll usually record the song, listen to myself, then spend time refining the song until I feel it can be used on stage.

I'll check in on the Synthzone, PSR-Tutorial, Sailnet, look at some of the posts, then go to work on something. This has been a daily routine for a decade and it probably won't change anytime soon. Tonight, I'll be performing at an upscale retirement community for about 120 people, I'll probably miss lots of passing chords, I'll have a ball, my audiences will have a ball, the dance-floor will be filled and with luck I'll have a Conga-Line snaking through the room and out into the corridors while playing and singing Hot Hot Hot.

I'm not really sure if this addresses the OP, but in some respects I get the feeling it was directed at me, and others, that have recently posted excerpts from musical performances. I sincerely hope not, but it sure seems that way to me. If that was the case, I'm glad you took time to watch the videos, and hope those that did watch them learned something from intent of the post, which was to show how a $29 video camera can be a beneficial tool at improving performances.

Gotta' go to work,

Gary cool


Hells Gary when did you come for air!! rotf2

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