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#340607 - 02/23/12 05:42 AM Re: I must be the only jerk here [Re: Tom Cavanaugh]
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2004
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Addictions at that level are powerful things. I've sat in the rehab center parking lot and watched another junkie come out, puke on the ground because the medicine (methodone) often upsets the stomach, and then watch that person drop to the ground scoop up their own vomit and eat it because the idea of getting through the day without the medicine/fix is worse than death.

Sometimes people are victims, sometimes people are weak, etc.
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Bill in Dayton

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#340609 - 02/23/12 06:07 AM Re: I must be the only jerk here [Re: Bill in Dayton]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 7728
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
"Sometimes people are victims, sometimes people are weak, etc"





Bill that is why we need to be firm, and educate young people about the consequences...There is no such thing as "recreational drugs"......

The time to reach young people is before they "try" drugs..

Condoning or excusing drug use...is just plain wrong...and I have never taking this subject lightly..it is one of the downfalls of society, and it has to be dealt with...now.

It needs to be addressed in our homes, with strong convictions...It needs to be addressed in the courts , with stronger "convictions"...
_________________________
Roland G70 (2007), Roland A800 PRO(2013), ....and a custom Busilacchio accordion (1964)..4 Roland Cube 100 keyboard amps (1985)..Edirol M-10DX mixer (2010).. Toshiba Satellite laptop(2010)..and Podium Pro 1205a powered speaker(2013)..

www.francarango.com

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#340611 - 02/23/12 06:35 AM Re: I must be the only jerk here [Re: Tom Cavanaugh]
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2004
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Fran-We did.

Both Patty and I are educated. She has a Masters in Nursing, plus a BA in education. I have a Degree in performance plus a bachelors in Business Administration. There are zero drugs in the home. Neither of us smoke or drink. We did all the anti drug programs that were offered in our area. Our other two girls have no issues with drugs.

Obviously the kidnapping was the game changer.

To your last point about stronger sentencing for drug users, I'd point you towards what Portugal did with their drug problem.

Read about it TIME here, Forbes here and Time here...

All of that said, Portugal isn't the USA, so who knows if it would be as successful here as it was there? What I do know is that the "war on drugs" has been a monumental waste of time and money. While not generally a fan of Republicans I support Ron Paul's stance on this. Legalize most drugs, pursue drug sellers and distributors and offer counseling/treatment instead of incarceration. It works better, its more in line with preserving our civil liberties and costs a lot less...
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Bill in Dayton

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#340785 - 02/24/12 09:41 PM Re: I must be the only jerk here [Re: Fran Carango]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 1345
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango


The time to reach young people is before they "try" drugs..


Sorry Fran, that's a pretty naive view. Do you know how much "trying" of drugs goes on in schoolyards everywhere? As a parent, you surely must know that you can't keep kids, especially as they get a bit older, under your surveillance 24/7. Something like crack, one of the most widely used drugs is available all over the place, and one hit and it's got you.

Trying is part of the rebellion/exploration inherent in young people. Not only that, but peer pressure is a very powerful component at these young ages. The need to be 'cool', 'popular', etc. Have you forgotten all that from your own younger years? I take it you did "try" sex for the first time out of your parents' watchful gaze, didn't you? You may have "tried" a cigarette for the first time in some sort of clandestine fashion, didn't you? If you'd "tried" to steal a candy bar from Woolworths it would have been out of sight of anyone, wouldn't it?

Sex, cigarettes and theft, while not life destroying by themselves (except for cigarettes) can all morph into addiction. So when "trying" a drug, yes even for the first time, it more often than not escalates into an addition all too easily and swiftly, especially with the encouragement of the guy pushing the stuff.

War on drugs? That's been about as successful as the war on terrorism. Of course, that doesn't mean we should give up "trying", does it?.

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#340823 - 02/25/12 07:18 AM Re: I must be the only jerk here [Re: 124]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 7728
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: 124
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango


The time to reach young people is before they "try" drugs..


Sorry Fran, that's a pretty naive view. Do you know how much "trying" of drugs goes on in schoolyards everywhere? As a parent, you surely must know that you can't keep kids, especially as they get a bit older, under your surveillance 24/7. Something like crack, one of the most widely used drugs is available all over the place, and one hit and it's got you.

Trying is part of the rebellion/exploration inherent in young people. Not only that, but peer pressure is a very powerful component at these young ages. The need to be 'cool', 'popular', etc. Have you forgotten all that from your own younger years? I take it you did "try" sex for the first time out of your parents' watchful gaze, didn't you? You may have "tried" a cigarette for the first time in some sort of clandestine fashion, didn't you? If you'd "tried" to steal a candy bar from Woolworths it would have been out of sight of anyone, wouldn't it?

Sex, cigarettes and theft, while not life destroying by themselves (except for cigarettes) can all morph into addiction. So when "trying" a drug, yes even for the first time, it more often than not escalates into an addition all too easily and swiftly, especially with the encouragement of the guy pushing the stuff.

War on drugs? That's been about as successful as the war on terrorism. Of course, that doesn't mean we should give up "trying", does it?.





Naive view...far from it..I can only base what has worked for me and my family...

Maybe explaining the above story to your youngsters instead of justifying to me that it won't work...could be part of the solution...Here is a hint...it works...

Peer pressure for kids can be large, but offset that with "not wanting to fail in the eyes of parents" can be a stronger pressure...and when it is shown in "black and white" ...that it is wrong, and literally stupid....they will grow up with the proper attitude to teach their kids...

I am so tired of cop outs, and blaming surroundings and peer pressure...If parents did their part from day one, we would have a higher success rate with "war against drugs"..

I have said this before..but let me re confirm...

My parents did not do drugs (example to me), other than my mother's addiction to smoking cigs (in itself another great lesson)...

My brother and I did no drugs , not even smoking cigs..My wife , 4 children, their spouses, and my 6 grandchildren..do no drugs...and they do not smoke.......Coincedence?..Not a chance..Firm teaching and explaining the downfall while they are young...they will see enough examples around them without the need for family examples..

I will continue to be the outspoken one...it seems to work..
_________________________
Roland G70 (2007), Roland A800 PRO(2013), ....and a custom Busilacchio accordion (1964)..4 Roland Cube 100 keyboard amps (1985)..Edirol M-10DX mixer (2010).. Toshiba Satellite laptop(2010)..and Podium Pro 1205a powered speaker(2013)..

www.francarango.com

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#340861 - 02/25/12 07:13 PM Re: I must be the only jerk here [Re: Tom Cavanaugh]
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 1345
Fran, I'm not blaming surroundings or peer pressure, I'm merely pointing out some realities and just how strong those factors that I mentioned really are. I think we can agree that drug abusers come from all kinds of families, good and bad.

Like yourself, my wife and I have been doing our part from day one. How else would our older daughter now be a surgeon, and our younger one a Registered Psychologist? No abuse of anything by either of them and, much as I'd like to think that was entirely because of our efforts in their upbringing, it could well have been a case of 'but for the grace of God'.

Again, similar to your own situation, my parents did no drugs - again, apart from my mother being a heavy smoker, which I'm sure was instrumental in my staying away from cigarettes. Never smoked, drank, done drugs myself, the wife neither.

So you see we share some similarities. But I do honestly believe that the slide into drug abuse has contributing factors other than strong parenting.

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#340892 - 02/26/12 06:34 AM Re: I must be the only jerk here [Re: 124]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 7728
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Of course you are correct...but "strong parenting" is the missing attribute in so many cases..
_________________________
Roland G70 (2007), Roland A800 PRO(2013), ....and a custom Busilacchio accordion (1964)..4 Roland Cube 100 keyboard amps (1985)..Edirol M-10DX mixer (2010).. Toshiba Satellite laptop(2010)..and Podium Pro 1205a powered speaker(2013)..

www.francarango.com

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