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#337727 - 01/27/12 02:35 PM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I see where you are coming from, mirza.

It's simply what works best for your needs.

I'm very content with Tyros4...I love the SA/SA2 voices a lot...very expressive in real time.

I'm much like you...I use styles (no SMF at all), mainly my own edited versions, made (using style assembly) from all kinds of early and present ones...plus I use the Groove&Dynamics part of Style Creator to mix parts of styles from completely different genres....it's a hoot!

When you are at the level of PA3X or Tyros4, it's down to personal choices and needs.

I do all my sequencing/recording on the Tyros4...never use PC, but that's the way I like to work...very spontaneous that way.

All the best,

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#337762 - 01/27/12 04:31 PM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: ianmcnll]
mirza Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/01
Posts: 1314
Loc: london,ontario.canada

SA voices are the best Ian.I will never understand why workstation like Kronos,which by the way is the best by far doesn't use this technology.They say it's not meant for that.I say ok, but why then use at all these saxes,or guitars as matter of facts all acoustic instruments if you are not going to use the best samples there is on them.
Synth sounds are top notch.
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MIKIMIKI

TYROS 5,BEHRINGER X32PRODUCER,YAMAHA DSR112,JBL PRX618s XLF,EV ZLX12p,SENNHEISER E945,....ETC

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#337795 - 01/28/12 02:33 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5355
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Sample layer switching (Which is what SA is) has been used in the pro market for years, (Just look in any VST sampler) however these days most have moved towards sound modelling, which means the sound is created in real-time, just like the real instrument.

The reason the T4 SA sounds so good, (Although I have yet to find anybody outside of arranger players that rate the SA Saxes) is the meticulous programing by the designers, for the market it is aimed at. (The Home User)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#337801 - 01/28/12 03:12 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Yamaha's SA/SA2 is so darn good because it is very easy and intuitive for the player to trigger nuances in the selected sound while still being able to play chords in the left hand.

I have had many pro synth players try my Tyros4, and the Saxes blow them away every time (pardon the pun). wink

So do the other wind instruments like trumpet and clarinet, and they simply adored the guitars, both acoustic and electric.

All say they wish they had the same easy to use, and super expressive voices on their synths.

Can't say I blame them. grin

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#337802 - 01/28/12 04:04 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: ianmcnll]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5355
Loc: English Riviera, UK
As I said meticulous programed for the home market

I go to many live clubs and see many live bands including Jazz, and not one of the performers or punters rate the SA Saxes. (However there way impressed with the Acoustic Guitars, but Saxes, not a chance)

Keyboards are a means to an end; however I always compare them with the real deal, NOT other keyboards. (Just because something sounds nice or impressive doesnt mean it compares to the real deal)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#337808 - 01/28/12 05:36 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#337809 - 01/28/12 05:46 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: abacus]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: abacus
As I said meticulous programed for the home market



Yep, a home keyboard equally at home with the professional player.

I love the many compliments I get about the Tyros4's SA/SA2 voices by other pro players.

It makes me certain I've spent my money well.

Thanks Bill...you're a veritable fountain of knowledge.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#337811 - 01/28/12 06:07 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: ianmcnll]
Jez Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 206
Loc: India
Ian, I agree to what you say.
In my opinion where Yamaha is winning is not just the quality of sounds in its SA/SA2 voices its the way they articulate automatically(the algorithm which Yamaha has put in) instead of button based articulations(which is also available on the Tyros 3 and above). This means that the arranger keyboardists are free to play around with their left hand chords instead of tinkering with the modulation buttons/joysticks etc. There is no doubt that the use of modulation buttons tell the keyboard to play exactly what articulation you want but the automated one if learnt will prove quite useful especially for songs with fast changing chords played by not so fast changing hands wink

For a synth, I can understand where the nuances become very important, there would be track by track recording and editing, so its essential to have the right articulation at the right time and also you dont have to bother about other tracks(chords) when doing the track with articulative playing.
Some of the DNC sounds on the Korg Pa3X and a majority of the supernatural sounds on the Jupiter 80 have a lot of realism in there... I heard some of Jupiter 80`s supernatural tones; they are amazing and as good as SA sounds but I doubt if there is an automatic articulation happening. The BK-7m has two of the so called supernatural tones. They, through an OS upgrade, could have added at least 30 SN tones from the Jupiter 80 to both the Bk-7m and the Bk-5...

Definitely, Yamaha has done their homework in understanding the need and application of automatic articulation through the way the keys are played. Other arranger manufacturers should come out of synth/workstation mode and lean a little towards arranger mode when it comes implementing this feature on an arranger keyboard. Quite a long post here. I`ll stop wink
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Warm Regards,
Jez

Auron Music

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#337813 - 01/28/12 06:31 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Jez, I have actually played the Jupiter 80 ( I have it's grandfather, the Jupiter 8)...it is an amazing instrument, and yes, the SuperNatural tones are probably the sonic equal of SA/SA2 voices...Roland doesn't sleep, and keeps getting better with each new iteration of synthesizer. They don't control as intuitively (or as easily) as SA/SA2 voices, but I'm sure Roland is working hard at that aspect.

If they were to make a G-series arranger based on much of what's in the Jupiter 80, they would have one terrific instrument, and Roland could finally hold it's head up high again in the top range arranger market.

The easy way to trigger nuances designed into Yamaha's SA/SA2 voices is what attracts me, as a pro player, to the instrument.

Most pro Tyros users that I deal with in my clinics aren't interested in extensive tweaking, as "playing/performing" is where the money/pleasure is for them. They like to adjust the filters a tad, or learn how to assemble styles and use the Groove function in Style Creator, but for the most part, they dig around for third party styles and rely on their skills as arrangers and players.

Being a professional arranger player doesn't make one a tweaker anymore than being a tweaker makes one a professional arranger player.

I guess a better term for "pro user", might be "advanced player", as many Tyros users are home players, but very good musicians indeed.

Hopefully Roland will use the BK-5 as a launching pad for more advanced instruments, with more SuperNatural voices, and additional features (especially a midi sequencer) that would appeal to the advanced players and pros alike.

Ian

BTW...I like your signature.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#337816 - 01/28/12 07:05 AM Re: New Roland BK 5 demo [Re: ianmcnll]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.


"....Being a professional arranger player doesn't make one a tweaker anymore than being a tweaker makes one a professional arranger player....."

Now there is a truism if ever there was one Ian.

regards,
John

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