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#327016 - 06/23/11 06:59 AM Any updates from BK7M users?
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2441
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
There was a lot of discussion on the BK7M and now it seems forgotten. Any of the members who've bought one I'd really like to hear your impressions and advice after owning it for awhile. Surprises, dissapointments, etc??
I'm in the midst of a move but my thought down the line would be to tie one to a Casio PX3 to have a portable but solid feeling gig setup.

Anyone ????
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#327020 - 06/23/11 07:26 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
the few people I Know that have had the BK7m Uncle Dave, Deane have now sold them for many reasons........ I'd seriously try one before you buy it...

http://www.roland-arranger.com/

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#327027 - 06/23/11 08:48 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
donpatt Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 465
Loc: Lufkin, TX.
Hi Bill,

I don't know if you are aware but there is a forum at YahooGroups.com that is devoted to the BK. There is much info available there as well as extra styles, "how to do it" files ETC.

I've had my BK-7m for a few months and these are my thoughts.
Many of the styles are very good and some of the sounds OK.

The biggest disappointment for me is in the way individual sounds have to be selected. there are no dedicated buttons to access them, i.e. piano, guitar, strings. It has to be done from inside menus, by pushing the data wheel, then selecting the sound bank and then the sound.

Also, there are One Touch Settings for each style, however, these are not linked to the variation buttons in such a way as to be selected by footswitch. So, for me as an accordion player, sound selection on the fly is almost impossible since a button on the module itself has to be pushed by hand to change a one-touch-sound; unless everything is programmed into a performance.

In that case, to change individual sounds you would have to save the style several times as a separate performance with a different voice in order to have multiple sounds in a song.

All that said, while I'm not too happy, our friend DonM is using his on gigs quite successfully, but he can speak for himself.

While I havn't given up completely, I'll just say, in the end, the BK-7m may not work for me!

Don P
_________________________
GENOS, Roland FR-8X V Accordion, Bose Compacts.

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#327030 - 06/23/11 09:10 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
IMO the BK7m was made more for Accordion players.

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#327043 - 06/23/11 12:19 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
He is an accordian player
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#327044 - 06/23/11 12:34 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I haven't posted in a couple of months but I will answer this one.
I love the BK-7m. I'm using it with an Edirol controller. I can call up 50 commands with button pushes from it.
I have programmed the variations, endings, break, etc., and about 20 of my favorite sounds. In addition I have two foot switches for the controller, one for the module, one for the harmonizer and a Roland FC7 if I need it. That's 9 more pedals than I have feet.
I am now setting up buttons to call up my 10 favorite "go to" registrations.
It is far from perfect and I have to bring a mic processor and laptop or tablet for text display. I was doing that anyway, so no big deal. It is a very deep machine and you can do pretty much anything you want with it, but it takes a little time and effort to get comfortable with the editing of the controller. Roland does provide excellent free software for this.
I am active on both the roland-arranger.com forum and the Yahoo BK-7m forum if you want more info.
I'm also hoping this board can get back to being more useful. So far I haven't missed it at all, other than many of my friends, the ones that haven't been run off yet.
I will be posting some songs on my website in the near future. I won't be posting any here.
DonP, you can link OTS to style variations if that helps.
Unfortunately you cannot yet edit and save OTS settings on the module. However I can edit and save them on my E50 and transfer them to the thumb drive and they work fine.
My setup time is about 10 minutes. Heaviest thing I have is Bose Compact at 28 pounds or so.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#327045 - 06/23/11 12:57 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
donpatt Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 465
Loc: Lufkin, TX.
Mr. DonM, that bit of info abt OTS helps a lot.

I'll just have to call you and find out how that works?

Very informative post

Thanks
Don P
_________________________
GENOS, Roland FR-8X V Accordion, Bose Compacts.

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#327050 - 06/23/11 01:42 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dnj
the few people I Know that have had the BK7m Uncle Dave, Deane have now sold them for many reasons........ I'd seriously try one before you buy it...

http://www.roland-arranger.com/


I have three new clients, who went from buying, trying (and returning)a BK-7M, and then purchasing a Yamaha PSR-S910, and two PSR-S710.

The main reason for returning the module was that it was not user friendly, and required a lot of time, effort, foot switches, and, although it sounded very good and had some excellent styles, it apparently was just not worth the effort. Some had them for several weeks, and were still not able to get it to work as needed.

Personally, I think Roland had a potential goldmine in this module, IF (and that's a big "if" as you can see) they had made it much easier to use and far more operator friendly. It is quite probably a fine module for those who have the time, patience, and lots of third party help to get it up and running. I actually entertained the thought of getting one myself (to use with a digital piano) but after reading, both here on SZ, and on other forums, about the issues most users were having with it (and the subsequent returns), I thought better of it, and will wait to see if they come out with a BK-7M Mark II, BK-8M, or whatever they will call it.

If they are planning on basing an arranger keyboard on this product, perhaps they will take what they have learned from the former customer's (and present user's) complaints, and make it a far easier, and ultimately better, instrument to use.


Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327065 - 06/23/11 03:23 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
You have not used the module, don't own the module and are only interested in pushing Yamahas, yet once again, you have to inject your opinion in a thread that really shouldn't concern you, so you can tell us AGAIN how wonderful the Yamahas are.
We KNOW that. You have made your point literally hundreds, if not thousands of times. Could we have ONE thread where you don't tell us again?
It is not an arranger keyboard. For anyway looking for an arranger keyboard, look elsewhere.
I remember why I haven't been posting.
It's the same old BS.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#327066 - 06/23/11 03:56 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: DonM]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Yes I also try to tell that to some other people here. Try first something before judge it.


Edited by FransN (06/23/11 04:05 PM)

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#327067 - 06/23/11 04:08 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: DonM
You have not used the module, don't own the module and are only interested in pushing Yamahas, yet once again, you have to inject your opinion in a thread that really shouldn't concern you, so you can tell us AGAIN how wonderful the Yamahas are.
We KNOW that. You have made your point literally hundreds, if not thousands of times. Could we have ONE thread where you don't tell us again?
It is not an arranger keyboard. For anyway looking for an arranger keyboard, look elsewhere.
I remember why I haven't been posting.
It's the same old BS.
DonM


Sorry pal, you are way off base, once again.

I had three clients that owned the module, and they returned/sold it to buy something much, much easier to use.

Roland is actually doing Yamaha (and Korg) a big favor with this product.

I have the same posting rights as you regarding this forum. You left this forum under your own steam, and by your own rules...anyone else that you feel has been "driven away", has either been rightly banned by Nigel, or has left due to their own issues.

If my posts bother you, there is an "ignore" function that allows you to do just that; ignore my posts.

I suggest that you either start using it, or stop accusing me of something that everyone does on this forum, and that is to promote the products they feel are worth buying.

I would not recommend the BK-7M, partly due to your reactions to the product, and also because of the experiences of several other professional entertainers on this forum, who wisely returned it, rather than try to make it work for their needs.

And, yes, Yamaha's are wonderful arrangers...I highly recommend them.

But, I will not recommend a product that has seen so many dissatisfied users.

If you wish to do that, go ahead...it's your integrity on the line, not mine.

Ian


Edited by ianmcnll (06/23/11 04:28 PM)
Edit Reason: removed unnecessary information pertaining to this thread
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327068 - 06/23/11 04:10 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: FransN]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2441
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Thanks guys for ALL your input. I now am considering waiting for something else to come down the pike. After all the hours spent working with my G1000s I hesitate to have to spend untold hours setting up a new module. I more and more want to get back to basics and PLAY, no program or button push.
My G1000 got me through fine on my German Club gig I mentioned in another thread and I again thank those who offered help with tunes.
Its more me than the public. New styles, sounds etc. As long as theres a good drum beat, some solid backround and most important, a decent vocal it doesn't really matter to them.
I'd really like to go backwards to a split keyborad, bass pedals, and drum machine. I enjoy doing more live anyway

Sorry to carry on and tanks again for the expert advice. Hey, Yamaha's aren't so bad HA! I ride a Yamaha Tour Deluxe, not a HARLEY!!!
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#327070 - 06/23/11 04:13 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: FransN]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2441
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Thanks guys for ALL your input. I now am considering waiting for something else to come down the pike. After all the hours spent working with my G1000s I hesitate to have to spend untold hours setting up a new module. I more and more want to get back to basics and PLAY, no program or button push.
My G1000 got me through fine on my German Club gig I mentioned in another thread and I again thank those who offered help with tunes.
Its more me than the public. New styles, sounds etc.
As long as theres a good drum beat, some solid backround and most important, a decent vocal it doesn't really matter to them.
I'd really like to go backwards to a split keyborad, bass pedals, and drum machine. I enjoy doing more live anyway

Sorry to carry on and thanks again for the expert advice.

Hey, Yamaha's aren't so bad HA! I ride a Yamaha Tour Deluxe, not a HARLEY!!!
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#327080 - 06/23/11 06:52 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Ric4001 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 26
I don't perform live, so I can't speak to the ease of use of the module for that purpose. I use arrangers as songwriting tools to generate ideas and I find the BK7M ideal for this purpose. You can have an endless array of styles at your disposal on the USB stick and the synth's sounds are excellent. I can couple this module with a workstation synth like my Korg M3 and have the best of both worlds without two full keyboard sitting in front of me. Or I can couple it with my Tyros 2 or Pa2xpro and have two completely different sounding arrangers running simultaneously, again without two keyboards sitting in front of me. I haven't tried it yet, but I also envision using this with my Band in a Box software, which will output the chords to the BK7M and allow the BK7M to play its styles in sync with what Band in a Box is generating. I think the BK7M is a great tool and something I've been wishing for for years.

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#327086 - 06/23/11 08:23 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: ianmcnll]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
Originally Posted By: DonM
You have not used the module, don't own the module and are only interested in pushing Yamahas, yet once again, you have to inject your opinion in a thread that really shouldn't concern you, so you can tell us AGAIN how wonderful the Yamahas are.
We KNOW that. You have made your point literally hundreds, if not thousands of times. Could we have ONE thread where you don't tell us again?
It is not an arranger keyboard. For anyway looking for an arranger keyboard, look elsewhere.
I remember why I haven't been posting.
It's the same old BS.
DonM


Sorry pal, you are way off base, once again.

I had three clients that owned the module, and they returned/sold it to buy something much, much easier to use.

Roland is actually doing Yamaha (and Korg) a big favor with this product.

I have the same posting rights as you regarding this forum. You left this forum under your own steam, and by your own rules...anyone else that you feel has been "driven away", has either been rightly banned by Nigel, or has left due to their own issues.

If my posts bother you, there is an "ignore" function that allows you to do just that; ignore my posts.

I suggest that you either start using it, or stop accusing me of something that everyone does on this forum, and that is to promote the products they feel are worth buying.

I would not recommend the BK-7M, partly due to your reactions to the product, and also because of the experiences of several other professional entertainers on this forum, who wisely returned it, rather than try to make it work for their needs.

And, yes, Yamaha's are wonderful arrangers...I highly recommend them.

But, I will not recommend a product that has seen so many dissatisfied users.

If you wish to do that, go ahead...it's your integrity on the line, not mine.

Ian



Ian , sometimes I swear you wear blinders.. smile

I am sure Roland will do well with the BK-7m, folks that have experience with modules will have no trouble using this module ..The folks that have had problems (those mentioned above)..are basing decisions on user error and poor compatible instruments to acheive their desired results..Yes that includes UD...the problem was the Nord.....and My guess Deane had problems due to lack of experience with the controller he tried....To rule this unit as a failure via SZ comments is rediculous...it is not the total picture..There are by a large margin..favorable users here over the few "returnees"...

I decided to pass on the BK module because I wanted it for very specific needs, and it could not deliver those needs without an additional piece of hardware (Monitor)......The features that it has...it does well...and will compete with just about all other instruments in sound....Some features like the make up tools , surpass most other instruments......and bang for the buck..it succeeds again...


To tout the Yamaha boards, stating there are no disappointed ex users..is not accurate...Within the same posts here,,,,there are a few names already listed that have owned and played Yamaha keyboards, and were not pleased...so much..they sold them off.....DonM has had many..I have owned PSR 2100's and a Tyros3...and even Uncle Dave gave up on PSR 2000, PSR 3000, 9000 Pro, and Tyros.....I believe all three of us thought the quality was sub par, and keyfeel (and size)was not acceptable....So you can see there are unhappy campers across the board...not just 2 or 3 BK users...

Nothing wrong with mentioning your favorite keyboard..but remember that is your opinion....and making blanket opinions on other instruments without any experience with the unit..is just nonsense.. smile


Edited by Fran Carango (06/23/11 08:24 PM)
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#327087 - 06/23/11 09:36 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Fran Carango]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango


Nothing wrong with mentioning your favorite keyboard..but remember that is your opinion....and making blanket opinions on other instruments without any experience with the unit..is just nonsense.. smile


Of course there isn't Fran...you do it all the time, even the ones that start out as your favorites, get recommended, and then, mysteriously get sold.

I will not recommend the BK-7M because of the issues you had with it, Uncle Dave had with it, Deane had with it, and DonM had with it.

Plus the three people I met that had them as well.

That makes seven professional players at least, that had issues with it.

Out of those seven, only two kept it, and those two still aren't totally happy with it.

So, based on concrete evidence from pro players, and not just hearsay, we can see that nearly all the users are having issues with it, and way more than half of them have returned or sold the unit.

That's certainly enough to make it a non-recommendable product in my opinion, or at the very least, to proceed with extreme caution.

Now, if there are any changes, I'd be more than glad to also change my opinion...so far, there hasn't been any, and your post doesn't bode well for it either.

Nonsense? Only if you buy the darn thing and expect it to be relatively easy for the average musician to use. That would be nonsensical, especially after seeing that even professional players are having a hard time of it.

As I said earlier...Roland has done Korg and Yamaha a big favor ( I sold three arranger keyboards because of the BK-7M's issues)...if they're smart, they'll rectify the poor and unfriendly OS, introduce a Mark II, or, better still, a new module that will work for the average player (or, at the very least, a professional).

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327090 - 06/23/11 10:04 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Fran Carango]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango


Ian , sometimes I swear you wear blinders.. smile

I am sure Roland will do well with the BK-7m, folks that have experience with modules will have no trouble using this module ..


Originally Posted By: Dnj
the few people I Know that have had the BK7m Uncle Dave, Deane have now sold them for many reasons........ I'd seriously try one before you buy it...

http://www.roland-arranger.com/


You know Fran...some of your posts (and DonM's) are a tad hypocritical...Donny mentions the fact that the people he knows have returned it, and nothing is said.

I mention it, and all of a sudden every Roland fanperson jumps on me.

Wouldn't have anything to do with me supporting and using a Yamaha?

No, couldn't be that...your pal Donny is using one and is always touting how well it meets his needs.

You guys should take off your own blinders, so at least you can see the whole picture, before you start in on little old me.

Tsk tsk tsk...shame on you!

Why not quit while you're behind?

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327091 - 06/23/11 10:18 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
All I'm asking is just an occasional thread about a Korg, Roland, Ketron, Casio-whatever, without touting what you are paid to sell and demo for a living.
I could easily go on every Yamaha thread and post a LONG list of shortcomings. Terrible harmonizer, buttons that push down into the case, paint that wears off. . . Tyros is such an awkward size that it's even hard to find a bag for it. The drums, until T4, haven't changed in 10 years and sound lifeless and dull without extensive editing to improve them a little. A vocal harmonizer that actually SHUTS OFF the singer's voice momentarily if you activate it while singing. They kept the darn thing unchanged since the PSR 8000 up until Tyros 4! That's amazing. Oh and you can get a partial upgrade every couple of years for only a few thousand dollars. There are lots of well-documented instances of display failures and everyone should know that if you keep one past the "upgrade" you better be prepared to take it apart and replace the strips under the keys (the keys that are smaller than the size used by everyone else.) You can also buy a great midi foot controller for only $300. It only weighs 7.7 pounds. If you want speakers (pretty bad ones) on the Tyros you can buy them for an extra $300 also. A $100. set of Logitechs blows them away. Oh, and do not try to run a Yamaha into a monophonic system. It sounds even worse than normal. I wonder how many thousands of would-be arranger players have been stymied at level one because of the proprietary fingering system that lets you play a C and an arbitrary note below it to get a C Minor or 7th chord. It has no musical basis at all. To make full chords you have to start over at some point and learn the right way. I can see the value of that on kid's toys 20 years ago, but why now?
I have personally experienced EVERY ONE of these faults by owning eleven Yamaha arrangers.
I won't be able to badmouth the 76-note MOTL or TOTL model will I?
Having said all this, I think they have a real winner in the Tyros 4. It has great lead sounds, although pretty gimmicky, finally vocal sounds on a par with Roland, an improved harmonizer (still a step below those of Roland, Korg and Ketron), even at long last an XLR mic input (what a concept!) Maybe the next incremental upgrade will address a couple more of the shortcomings. Start saving your money now.
That's a lesson on back-handed compliments I learned right here on this board.
Every arranger has its faults and good points. I could point out those faults on every thread about Yamaha, but then I would put myself on a level lower than I care to be on.
I used to be such great fun to come here and post and keep up with what the others are doing. Maybe I'm getting old, but it's certainly not fun right now. Too many threads turn into arguments. I don't have an enemy in the world that I know of, and don't want to start having them now.
I said all the stuff above to try and make a point. Am I the only one who wants to discuss the topic of the thread without someone turning it into a commercial for something else? If so then maybe it's just me and I should slip back into a Bayou in my boat somewhere and give up on this site, like so many of my friends have.
I'm serious, is it me?
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#327092 - 06/23/11 10:27 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: DonM]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: DonM

I'm serious, is it me?
DonM


Nope!!!

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#327093 - 06/23/11 10:53 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: DonM]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: DonM
All I'm asking is just an occasional thread about a Korg, Roland, Ketron, Casio-whatever, without touting what you are paid to sell and demo for a living.
DonM


All I did was state that I was not recommending the BK-7M to anyone, based on what YOU, FRAN, UNCLE DAVE, DEANE and three other professionals, all of which had issues with the instrument.

Then I have one person defending the very product he took back because it didn't fit his needs....last time I looked we were on a General Arranger Forum, so the BK-&M didn't meet the needs of an arranger user. Now that's a real revelation.

Being a General Arranger Forum also means that mentioning, promoting, and recommending other products in a thread is allowed...there was no hijacking, and no nonsense.

Until now.

I repeat:

I will not recommend the BK-7M based on what I read here on SZ, which includes the experiences of at least TWO Roland fanpeople and from three other former users

In fact, one of my new clients was a real Roland aficionado, having several Roland synths, amps, recorders, and a Roland accordion.

He told me he was that displeased with the BK-7M, he wanted to take a hammer to it, and send the pieces back to Roland saying he fixed it for them.

He bought a PSR-S710 and is very pleased with it.

Is it my fault the BK-7M was problematic for you, Fran, Uncle Dave, Deane and the three new clients I have?

Seems you think so. Of course, you are the only one of the bunch who kept it.

It certainly isn't your friend Donny's fault...and he has mentioned it as well, so you conveniently turn your aim at me, so as to try and give yourself some comfort after buying a less than acceptable product.

You're just putting more egg on your face...as I said already, why not quit while you're behind?

Ian

PS...SZ has always had it's share of arguments...that's nothing new, and it certainly just did not start since I joined...all one has to do is look back at the older posts. As far as people leaving, that's also been a common thing...the door swings both ways, and I have seen many new faces here on SZ, as well as quite a few older members returning.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327095 - 06/23/11 11:04 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
If I didn't like the BK I wouldn't be playing it. Who gives a rat's rear if you recommend it because you have not played it.
For now, it fits my needs extremely well. I don't know where you got the idea that it didn't, except to take something I said in trying to share the good AND the less than good things that I experienced with it and jump on it, totally ignoring the good things I said about it.
Imagine Dave or Fran buying something and then getting rid of it. They have both done that several times with Yamaha products, as well as others.
I would have dumped it after a month if I didn't like it.
I had a patron come up to me tonight and try to buy it because he loved the way it sounded. I do too.
I agree with Miden, I don't think it's me at all.
As Buddy Holly said, "Rave On".
_________________________
DonM

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#327096 - 06/23/11 11:18 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: DonM]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: DonM
If I didn't like the BK I wouldn't be playing it. Who gives a rat's rear if you recommend it because you have not played it.



Well, the three people I spoke with, and who bought PSR-S series certainly gave a rat's ass.

Fran, Dave, Deane all played it and returned it...so you're saying that they aren't qualified? I think they are.

You had problems, and although you managed to get it working, you still aren't totally pleased...piano mode has changed with the new OS upgrade...you didn't like that much.

Whether it's you or not, isn't the issue, so please stop trying to put a spin on this...it's not working.

The issue is the BK-7M not being acceptable to the professional players who have posted here, and also with the pro players who have spoken to me.

Based on that, I will not recommend the product.

If I get further information that refutes what I have now, I will change my mind...but not until.

Yes, it sounds great, and many of the styles are very good, but what good is that to the person who is dealing with a very unfriendly operating system?

If you like it, knock yourself out...but I say, buyer beware.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327099 - 06/24/11 12:21 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
You so obviously don't know what you're talking about, that I'm tired of wasting time and energy.
I have made a living doing NOTHING but playing music professionally for many years. I think that makes ME a pro.
I don't have a job repping keyboards. I don't have a job teaching, honorable as that is. I'm not retired from anything.
FYI, Roland US has contacted me about the pianist mode and assured me it will be corrected in the next OS upgrade. Free even. There are a couple of other minor bugs that are also slated for fixes.
Someone asked for opinions about the BK-7M from USERS. I tried to help. I'm sorry I did.
I played a Tyros 4 for several hours on each of two occasions. I can't recommend it. Who CARES if I can't recommend it? I'm pretty certain you don't, because you have found that it fits your needs. I'm also certain that if you were paid to represent Roland, as you are by Yamaha, you would have a much deeper knowledge of the module and be touting it instead of running it down to suit your own purposes.
All you know about it is that three of your customers, and three people here tried it and didn't like it. You even tried to lump me in with them, which just isn't true.

Buyer beware??? Are you kidding me? Did you see that long list of faults that you get in a $4900. Yamaha? Give me a break. I wasn't talking about hearsay; I was speaking from personal experience.
I'm talking about a module that costs considerably less that $1,000. It sounds terrific, is easy to use and it suits my purposes at this time. Why do you insist that it doesn't?
I don't like to argue. Apparently you do and I'm finished with this thread.
You can now come back and twist something else around and you will win. Congratulations.
I feel you are hurting this forum. Just my opinion, you understand.
I'm sure Nigel will delete my posts again. I'm past the point of caring, because of you. It's not me.
_________________________
DonM

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#327101 - 06/24/11 01:06 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: DonM]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: DonM
You so obviously don't know what you're talking about, that I'm tired of wasting time and energy.
I have made a living doing NOTHING but playing music professionally for many years. I think that makes ME a pro.
I don't have a job repping keyboards. Congratulations.
I feel you are hurting this forum. Just my opinion, you understand.
I'm sure Nigel will delete my posts again. I'm past the point of caring, because of you. It's not me.



Yes, DonM, I know you are a pro, but so were the others who used the product and returned it.

I have also been playing professionally for many years...probably nearly as many as you.

If you think I am hurting this forum by warning people about a product that has been tried and found unsatisfactory by several forum members, plus three more that I met personally, you definitely are entitled to your opinion, but I do not agree with you.

I think it is important to make people aware of a purchase that may or may not be in their best interest. However, unlike you, I'm not prepared to scurry away every time someone disagrees with me, or has a different opinion.

I am glad Roland will allegedly fix the piano mode...and well they should "for free". They screwed it up. It worked okay until the new OS was loaded...I'd be very wary of any further upgrades, but, hey, thankfully, I don't own one.

Yes, someone asked for opinions about the BK-7M and I gave mine, based on what I term, very reliable sources.

You know, it wasn't that long ago that you were recommending that someone buy a keyboard (rather than renting, or shipping their own) and then use it for gigging, and then return it to the dealer for refund, forcing the dealer to sell the item as B-Stock, and all with the express intention of never keeping it in the first place.

I didn't want to bring that up, but since you are continually pointing the finger at me, I feel it is necessary for me to let you know it would do well for you to check the three that are pointing back at you.

So who is actually hurting the forum?

Personally, I think it was at that point that you stopped caring, because I really thought it was out of character for you, and I was quite surprised to see you post such a suggestion.

So, my opinion still stands regarding the BK-7M...it's buyer beware, or buyer be wary, whatever works best.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327102 - 06/24/11 01:52 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: ianmcnll]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
ok we have done this to death. Finish it now. The BK suits some peoples needs while others it doesn't. That is pretty much typical of everything in this life. Neither side will convince the other so just live with it .... the rest of us aren't interested in the pointless back and forth. You both made your points in your initial posts ... the rest are superflous.





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#327103 - 06/24/11 02:12 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
rolandfan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 935
Loc: South Africa
Ian any news from yamaha on the s series replacement

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#327104 - 06/24/11 02:25 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: rolandfan]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: rolandfan
Ian any news from yamaha on the s series replacement


Nothing at this time.

CVP and PSR are usually launched at the same time, and there has been no info yet on either.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327108 - 06/24/11 05:39 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: ianmcnll]
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2397
Loc: Texas
I was not going to join this discussion but because my name has been mentioned in the posts figured I should speak for myself. I think if you read all my posts here you will find I did not knock the BK-7M but reported things I found that were either really hard to do on the module or that I did not understand and was asking Roland users for ideas. I used the module on 2 gigs and actually did NOT find it hard to use once everything was setup properly. My controller is a Roland A-800 Pro which is Roland's TOTL controller for now. A former member here named John along with Bill Grosse from another forum helped me get the controller setup properly. I have stated from the beginning that I am a real newbie with midi and my learning curve was a straight line up!!

I sold the BK-7M for the following reasons:
1. I found it added to rather than lessened my setup time on gigs
2. Most of the assigned OTS voices, which can't be changed then saved, were not to my liking and frankly did not fit well the style they were assigned to.
3. It was very time consuming doing just the very simple things on it - even after you learned how. For example, to simply audition styles and delete those not wanted you had to copy the styles onto a computer, play the style on the module, but delete the style from the copy on a computer, then reload everything back onto the thumb drive. What idiot designed that part of the OS???

So folks, I owned one, used one on two gigs, spent hours and hours learning to use it properly, setup about 100 songs on one, but still decided to sell it. I found the OS to be very hard to use and not finished. It has many bugs reported by users all over the world - check the BK-7M users group and the Roland Arranger BK-7M forum. I believe Roland rushed the product to market in order to announce it at NAMM. There is not an editor program available, that works, for the thing so everything must be done on the module. One of the owners makes adjustments to styles on his E50 then transfers them to the BK-7M - what kind of a deal is that? Not everyone who buys the module has another Roland keyboard to use as an editor.

Just my thoughts.
Deane


Edited by hammer (06/24/11 05:45 AM)

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#327112 - 06/24/11 06:42 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2781
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
I heard that if you upgrade to the latest version (1.05) the Pianist Mode will not work.
Has that been corrected yet? More importantly is Roland DEFINETLY going to correct that in a new upgrade?
confused

Why would they disable Piano Mode in an upgrade

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#327117 - 06/24/11 07:58 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
The Pianist mode works fine in full keyboard mode. It doesn't work correctly in split mode, where you use a sustain pedal to hold the chord until you decide to change.
I was assured by Roland US that it would be corrected. That's all I know. I use it on one song out of my repertoire so I can easily work around it.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#327119 - 06/24/11 08:33 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: hammer]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: hammer

I sold the BK-7M for the following reasons:
1. I found it added to rather than lessened my setup time on gigs
2. Most of the assigned OTS voices, which can't be changed then saved, were not to my liking and frankly did not fit well the style they were assigned to.
3. It was very time consuming doing just the very simple things on it - even after you learned how. For example, to simply audition styles and delete those not wanted you had to copy the styles onto a computer, play the style on the module, but delete the style from the copy on a computer, then reload everything back onto the thumb drive. What idiot designed that part of the OS???

I found the OS to be very hard to use and not finished.

It has many bugs reported by users all over the world - check the BK-7M users group and the Roland Arranger BK-7M forum.

I believe Roland rushed the product to market in order to announce it at NAMM. There is not an editor program available, that works, for the thing so everything must be done on the module. One of the owners makes adjustments to styles on his E50 then transfers them to the BK-7M - what kind of a deal is that? Not everyone who buys the module has another Roland keyboard to use as an editor.

Just my thoughts.
Deane


Thanks Deane. I knew that you finally did get it up and running, and I must commend you for your patience.

The reasons you sold it were basically the same reasons the three owners, I met with, returned theirs.

One was using a Roland RA-90, which the BK-7M was to replace, but he told me that the latter was many steps behind the former for ease of use/setup, although it did sound better (which made it even more frustrating).

I hope they fix all the reported bugs with another OS upgrade, and perhaps learn from what they've done and produce a BK-?? that will at least have the ease of use found with their older modules. I too, had a Roland RA-90, and I thought it was terrific.

My plan was to use the BK-7M with a lightweight digital piano, but since it was even hard to use with a dedicated (and TOTL) Roland controller, I'm afraid that with the piano, things would have been far worse.

Thanks again for your very honest and complete reply.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#327124 - 06/24/11 09:53 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: DonM]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2781
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
Originally Posted By: DonM
The Pianist mode works fine in full keyboard mode. It doesn't work correctly in split mode, where you use a sustain pedal to hold the chord until you decide to change.
I was assured by Roland US that it would be corrected. That's all I know. I use it on one song out of my repertoire so I can easily work around it.
DonM


Thanks... that's not so bad...I thought it was a more serious pianist mode problem, although it does need to be fixed. I doubt if I would ever use the Pianist other than full keyboard anyway.

Is there anything else you can tell us about the latest updates? Any new sounds patches, styles, etc.?
_________________________
Larry "Hawk"

Hawk Music
Sadly No More frown

♫ 🎹🎹 ♫ SX-900




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#327219 - 06/25/11 07:36 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
As far as I can tell, the new styles and drum kits in it were all things I wouldn't use, like Oriental stuff.
There may have been some other things, but I hadn't had it long enough to know what was or wasn't there before.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#327221 - 06/25/11 07:43 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
I wish there were MORE You Tube demo videos on the BK7m from users.

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#327224 - 06/25/11 08:13 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Bill, I just might be persuaded to part with my BK7m for that B3 you've been trying to unload for the last decade. Heck, I might even throw in a mint A70 (and/or A33) controller to go with it. As a bonus I could throw in, oh let's see, a Motif ES module, a Tyros II, a PA1x Pro. I could substitute a Fantom G7 for the Tyros and PA1x Pro. I would rent a truck and pick it up myself (wouldn't happen to have one of those 2 ton strap-on Oak dollies by any chance, would you?). I assume it comes with a Leslie, right?

BTW, did that Tour Deluxe ever figure out whether it wants to be a tourer or a cruiser? smile smile Just kidding. Nice bike......but stop by my place and I'll fix you up with a REAL bike (Multistrada, Aprilia, Triumph Triple 1050, Concours 1400, Burgman 650, Kymco x500, Honda CH80, Electric Moped, 18 speed, and recumbent exercise bike - the latter in like-new condition smile .

The BK7m is as new. Sounds excellent, I even found 2 styles that I like smile .

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#327226 - 06/25/11 08:31 AM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: cgiles]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2441
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Chas

Thanks, your bike comments made me smile this morning. The Royalstar is a bada** cruiser/ tourer right out of the box. No mechanical mods needed except drilling the pipes for a little sound and air flow. I just added some shiny stuff and ride it. I'm a big guy so its the best bike for me. Those others sound way too exotic HA!

The B3 now sits in a high end piano/stereo store here in Rahway NJ. The owner has some good NYC connections so things are looking up for a good deal. He just sold a $50,000 rebuilt Steinway to someone in NY and is the seller of the Rahway Arts Districts' $90,000 Fazoli Grand. Caused quite an uproar in a blue collar town !

The B3 is a Showroom MINT 1959 Cherrywood with a perfectly matched Lesiie. Leslie is totally rebuilt, Trek II string bass and Fischer Reverb in the organ and of course all new tubes in both. Custom quitled covers and yes, I have the Roll or Carry dollies left over from my business. Bring the Bk7m and fill your truck up with cash HA!
Shoot me an email and lets talk Billlewisnj@aol.com
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#327254 - 06/25/11 02:41 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: Bill Lewis]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
Those others sound way too exotic HA!



What do mean "exotic". I'll have you know that I have a great time riding them back and forth to the shop (especially the Ducati) smile smile . I'll email you this weekend after I 'consult' with my wife. Actually, she doesn't care what I buy as long as it goes into my studio. But I want to put the/a B3 in the rec room (where she's still making peace with the 82" 3D TV I just installed in there smile ). Plus, she knows I want to swap out the Yamaha console in the living room for a small Grand. Then, of course, there'd be the (divorce) lawyer's fee smile . My main concern though, is that (like you) I'll probably be downsizing from our current 7000 sq.ft. house to probably something much samller, like maybe @ 2500 sq.ft in a few years. I already know that my kids would not want these two large pieces so it could be an expensive, short-lived experience. It's just that I've been wanting to get another 'B' every since I unloaded the cut down one I had in Hawaii.........plus, I'm a sucker for a REALLY GOOD DEAL smile .

chas


Edited by cgiles (06/25/11 02:43 PM)
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#327285 - 06/25/11 10:25 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: ianmcnll]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
Originally Posted By: Dnj
the few people I Know that have had the BK7m Uncle Dave, Deane have now sold them for many reasons........ I'd seriously try one before you buy it...

http://www.roland-arranger.com/


I have three new clients, who went from buying, trying (and returning)a BK-7M, and then purchasing a Yamaha PSR-S910, and two PSR-S710.

The main reason for returning the module was that it was not user friendly, and required a lot of time, effort, foot switches, and, although it sounded very good and had some excellent styles, it apparently was just not worth the effort. Some had them for several weeks, and were still not able to get it to work as needed.


Ian


DonM.

The SZ High Court

In the Case of BK7M - v - Yamaha PSR-S910.

Was not Ian just stating it as it was from someone else’s experience, the 3 people who returned their BK7M said “it was not user friendly” Ian was just stated a fact what other had . He also said it sounded very good and some excellent styles, isn’t this is what SZ is all about everyone’s slant on things. You have an Audya and I have one two, I can tell you all the faults now and if I try to compare the Audya with the T4 I think the T4 will blow away the Audya in certain areas (too many areas too). For instance if I wanted a full blown orchestral sound for a powerful waltz the Audya can’t deliver the goods and a powerful ballad Audya just does have one, we were seduced by the Audya but it is limited. I would not mind but the three people Ian talks about did not even buy Yami flagship they bought Yamaha PSR-S910. Don, I think Ian gives us his slant on the module for other to listen or bin and go and buy it or not, that my 10p. Had the three people who returned their BK7M been members of SZ we might have got this from them. I don’t know the BK7M and have no inclination I have enough problems trying to play what I’ve got, I just take all what people have got to say and I think Ian is near enough to the pointed end of the ship for me to listen to when he shouts ICEBERG!

It’s nice to see you back even though you said you were off on one like Donny, I know SZ is infectious you just can’t bear not to peek even after you are dammed your not coming back. My wife said we are load of old W…….ers, she sat and read some of the threads, looks in the office at me tying away and calls me one too and I let here, perhaps she’s right I am one!

I have come to the conclusion that the only way to wean yourselves off SZ Don and Donny is to get Nigel to ban you (not the best method), but it won’t stop you looking in, it might even make you worse and be more frustrating it would be like a toffee or candy shop with the ones you want on the top shelf and you can’t reach. I think if we had to pay £5 a month to be on SZ most would be gone. There’s a BBC TV program called MOANING OLD GITS my wife says it’s SZ all over!

Why can’t we just be nice to each other, have some fun on the way by all means, we don’t need to call each other what my wife call you and me! Just my thoughts for the day it’s Sunday here in UK.

Tony Hughes [Defence Attorney acting on Behalf of Ian Yamaha]




Edited by Tony Hughes (06/25/11 10:32 PM)
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#328089 - 07/04/11 09:54 PM Re: Any updates from BK7M users? [Re: DonM]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Don,
thanks for the info on the BK-7m.

I just joined the Yahoo group you mentioned, may come in handy.

[quote=DonM]I haven't posted in a couple of months but I will answer this one.
I love the BK-7m.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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