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#312175 - 01/13/11 03:52 PM NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
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If you find any please post here.

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#312177 - 01/13/11 03:53 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
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Won't be any 'til the official launch, which is tomorrow I think (Saturday your time)

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#312265 - 01/13/11 07:39 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: miden]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: miden
Won't be any 'til the official launch, which is tomorrow I think (Saturday your time)


Are they kidding I want to hear and see the PA3x NOWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! frown

also why would they release the KRONOS today then let me ask?
Pa3x is just another arranger the Kronos is a "GAME CHANGER" !!!

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#312274 - 01/13/11 08:00 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
miden Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dnj
Originally Posted By: miden
Won't be any 'til the official launch, which is tomorrow I think (Saturday your time)


Are they kidding I want to hear and see the PA3x NOWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! frown

also why would they release the KRONOS today then let me ask?
Pa3x is just another arranger the Kronos is a "GAME CHANGER" !!!


I would suggest Donny, that as the Kronos IS the major release for Korg at this NAMM, they want it to get as much of the early Korg "press" as possible.

Don't worry the PA3 will be demoed soon enough smile

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#312279 - 01/13/11 08:19 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: miden]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: Dnj
Originally Posted By: miden
Won't be any 'til the official launch, which is tomorrow I think (Saturday your time)


Are they kidding I want to hear and see the PA3x NOWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! frown

also why would they release the KRONOS today then let me ask?
Pa3x is just another arranger the Kronos is a "GAME CHANGER" !!!


I would suggest Donny, that as the Kronos IS the major release for Korg at this NAMM, they want it to get as much of the early Korg "press" as possible.

Don't worry the PA3 will be demoed soon enough smile


I'm hoping they at least use a GREAT demonstrator who knows what he's doing and can really play the thing to show off it's attributes !

& I wonder if Yamaha stayed away from releasing the S Series line because of the Pa3x also & waiting for the excitement to calm down & do it in Frankfort in March.Or will that come back to bite them and people are running off to sell their Tyros 4 after tomorrow eek

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#312280 - 01/13/11 08:23 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
miden Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dnj

& I wonder if Yamaha stayed away from releasing the S Series line because of the Pa3x also & waiting for the excitement to calm down & do it in Frankfort in March.

Or will that come back to bite them and people are running off to sell their Tyros 4 after tomorrow eek


LOL, no Yamaha, like most corporations, already have their own timeline and are usually not influenced by things they cannot control.....

And an even bigger NO to your second question!! I really cannot see Yamaha owners madly dashing off to Ebay tomorrow to start listing their keys for sale!!!

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#312282 - 01/13/11 08:40 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: miden]
Dnj Offline
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Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: Dnj

& I wonder if Yamaha stayed away from releasing the S Series line because of the Pa3x also & waiting for the excitement to calm down & do it in Frankfort in March.

Or will that come back to bite them and people are running off to sell their Tyros 4 after tomorrow eek


LOL, no Yamaha, like most corporations, already have their own timeline and are usually not influenced by things they cannot control.....

And an even bigger NO to your second question!! I really cannot see Yamaha owners madly dashing off to Ebay tomorrow to start listing their keys for sale!!!



Hmmmmmm?...Maybe your right as Tyros is firmly seated in the Home Keyboard market....I would assume with this new KORG PA3x release and the many great PRO features listed will expand arrangers further into the Pro arranger market the distance between them more pronounced.

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#312284 - 01/13/11 09:07 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
shim Offline
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#312286 - 01/13/11 09:13 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: shim]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: shim


Nice find Shim!!

But now I'm disappointed that I watched it...eek That was one of the worst demos Ive seen in a long time.....I hope that wasn't the official KORG release demo because I would be embarrassed if it was OMG!


Edited by Dnj (01/13/11 09:23 PM)

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#312289 - 01/13/11 09:28 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: shim]
Nick G Online   content
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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
great find! that acoustic guitar at 0:45 sounds soooo good!
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Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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#312290 - 01/13/11 09:30 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Nick G]
FransN Offline
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Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
What a boring demonstrator. If I play this instrument I will have a big smile on my face.

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#312292 - 01/13/11 09:31 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Nick G]
Nick G Online   content
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Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
all the acoustic and wind instruments sound so good! this is definitely up there with SA 2 voices! maybe even better?

Nick
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Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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#312294 - 01/13/11 09:34 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
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Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I don't believe it as an official Korg demo, but interesting anyway. I want to hear some Country and Rock 'n Roll!
Fiddles, steels, guitars EEEEEHAAAAW!
DonM
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#312295 - 01/13/11 09:38 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
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The difference I find with the Korg wind voices, as opposed to the Yamaha SA/SA2 is that on the former, the note re-attacks with each keystroke...on SA/SA2 the attack (or re-attack) depends on if the player plays legato or not.

Small detail, but really adds to realism.

Maybe Korg's DNC will allow something similar?

I must say, I do like the overall sound, nonetheless...very clean, but with character.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#312296 - 01/13/11 10:33 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
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Well, maybe it's the demonstrator, or the sound quality...but I didn't hear much in that to sway me over from the PA2x..

I see Korg still have the issue with the right hand voices being way too loud and out of balance with the style mix..Although again this might be the setup preference of the demonstrator.

YOu can hear the EP's from the SV1- though, very smooth. Thats about the only thing, to me, from this demo that stands out...

I tend to agree with Ian's comment in another thread (on advice from his contact), it is quite similar to the PA2.

For me, I will need to hear the official demo, with all the other new features to make a firm decision.

So far, it's okay..that's about as high as I can go...

Dennis

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#312297 - 01/13/11 10:35 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
BEBOP Offline
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#312300 - 01/13/11 10:51 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: BEBOP]
Nick G Online   content
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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Hi Bebop, this youtube video was posted weeks ago as "leaked information" or "just speculation" and people started dreaming and speculating from there...

looks like after all this time it was actually real!
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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#312319 - 01/14/11 01:00 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Nick G]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
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Originally Posted By: Nick G
great find! that acoustic guitar at 0:45 sounds soooo good!


ROUND ONE.....


TYROS 4 by a Mile!

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#312323 - 01/14/11 01:12 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
spalding1968 Offline
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Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
sadly i have to agree DNJ. Sonically, the Tyros 4 is still clearly ahead . Features wise the Korg is still way ahead. Its a shame that i would have to compromise sound for features again if i bought the PA3X. Looks like my cash is going to stay in my pocket until the PA4X if there is one. What a shame.

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#312346 - 01/14/11 07:48 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: spalding1968]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
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Originally Posted By: spalding1968
sadly i have to agree DNJ. Sonically, the Tyros 4 is still clearly ahead . Features wise the Korg is still way ahead. Its a shame that i would have to compromise sound for features again if i bought the PA3X. Looks like my cash is going to stay in my pocket until the PA4X if there is one. What a shame.


something is really fishy here with the pa3x wink

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#312347 - 01/14/11 07:50 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: spalding1968]
vangelis Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 424
Loc: FLORIDA
Looks like most here are putting salt in their soup before trying it, but for now from what I hear, I am leaning towards KETRON AUDYA or even a LIONSTRACS than anything else, two things that I am already disappointed, polyphony 128? and user RAM? 256 in what 24 bit? and 512 megs in 16 bit? what about compatability? are we starting from scratch again? with the PA3X? it looks like it? well, hardware wise LIONSTRACS blows everyone away with it's specs smile
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Currently main setup on stage are:KORG PA4X,PA1000

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#312353 - 01/14/11 08:19 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktKT-BVX0Ls&feature=player_embedded#!

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#312363 - 01/14/11 09:06 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
vangelis Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
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Loc: FLORIDA
Same ol same ol, I hope it get's better? on the DEMO's looks like they are unprepared, big time frown
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Currently main setup on stage are:KORG PA4X,PA1000

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#312369 - 01/14/11 09:28 AM 2011 Naam: PA3X Presentation Videos, by KorgChina: [Re: Dnj]
Scottyee Offline
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Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
2011 Naam: PA3X Presentation Videos, by KorgChina:

Part 1: Steve McNally:



Part 2: Mr Francesco:


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#312370 - 01/14/11 09:31 AM Re: 2011 Naam: PA3X Presentation Videos, by KorgChina: [Re: Scottyee]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Scottyee
2011 Naam: PA3X Presentation Videos, by KorgChina:

Part 1: Steve McNally:



Part 2: Mr Francesco:




The audience must be sitting there saying to themselves WTF? eek

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#312372 - 01/14/11 09:45 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
George Kaye Offline
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Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
the man demonstrating the keyboard is the person who designs and creates all the korg pa keyboards since the PA80........so be nice!
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#312374 - 01/14/11 09:52 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: George Kaye]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Does "PA" stand for "Prepared to Be Amazed" ? I hope not!

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#312376 - 01/14/11 10:15 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
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Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Man, that harmonizer is awesome...especially used with the MP3 player.

This is a fine instrument...sounds clean with lots character.

I'm not fussy on the speaker bar, but it isn't any worse than the attachable speakers on T.

I think we have a "Long Train Runnin'" style for the Yammies...buddy sure likes the Eagles. wink

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#312377 - 01/14/11 10:22 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
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Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Donny,
Come on man....this is one hell of a machine...you can not do any judgig of sound based on these preliminary, poorly done demos taken by a hand help vid camera with a built in mike.

As the days and weeks go by...then we will hear the true instrument.

One thing for sure...Korg does not do the demo job that Yamaha does...but...you are not buying the demontrator!

Lee S.
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#312379 - 01/14/11 10:29 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: ianmcnll]
SemiLiveMusic Offline
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Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll

I'm not fussy on the speaker bar, but it isn't any worse than the attachable speakers on T.


I think Korg's are worse because they block your hands from the audience's view even more so. With Tyros, they can see your hands. I am actually surprised that they built something like this... I would think that with a little input from giggers, they would get my reaction. And they do call this a "professional arranger," so I assume they are going after giggers.
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#312381 - 01/14/11 10:36 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: leeboy]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Donny,
Come on man....this is one hell of a machine...you can not do any judgig of sound based on these preliminary, poorly done demos taken by a hand help vid camera with a built in mike.

As the days and weeks go by...then we will hear the true instrument.

One thing for sure...Korg does not do the demo job that Yamaha does...but...you are not buying the demontrator!

Lee S.


Like I said before after looking at these demos...
I'm impressed with the features ...
I am not impressed at all with the sound. For $4000.00+ it needs to be on par or better then Tyros 4 sound wise at this point. The silly looking speaker you don't have to purchase it's an option. weather it blocks your hands or not doesn't matter people are hearing a whole band with one person making or controlling the music & smart enough to know its all automatically generated somehow after all it's an arranger keyboard.


Edited by Dnj (01/14/11 10:42 AM)

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#312383 - 01/14/11 10:39 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: SemiLiveMusic]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: SemiLiveMusic
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll

I'm not fussy on the speaker bar, but it isn't any worse than the attachable speakers on T.


I think Korg's are worse because they block your hands from the audience's view even more so. With Tyros, they can see your hands. I am actually surprised that they built something like this... I would think that with a little input from giggers, they would get my reaction. And they do call this a "professional arranger," so I assume they are going after giggers.


My beef with the Tyros speakers is the fiddly setup (two sats and SW)...I prefer built ins, which is another reason why I use a PSR-S910.

Also, I'd never use an MP3 player, let alone need two of them, but there will be people that will find them essential in their performance.

These instruments, Tyros4 and Korg PA3X, are intended for different markets, although they do overlap in many places.

So far, the Yammie seems to be more of a player's instrument in style play mode, but, subsequent Korg demos may show they are closer than I think.

I know I'd sure love to spend a few days with a Korg...some of those styles are excellent.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#312385 - 01/14/11 11:00 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
SemiLiveMusic Offline
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Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
It is ludicrous to judge the Korg's sound quality by one day's worth of camcorder videos. I have always been impressed with Korg PA styles and I look forward to checking this machine out. I hope it turns out to be a real winner and huge success. That would help the arranger world.
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Bill

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#312386 - 01/14/11 11:08 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: ianmcnll]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
Originally Posted By: SemiLiveMusic
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll

I'm not fussy on the speaker bar, but it isn't any worse than the attachable speakers on T.


I think Korg's are worse because they block your hands from the audience's view even more so. With Tyros, they can see your hands. I am actually surprised that they built something like this... I would think that with a little input from giggers, they would get my reaction. And they do call this a "professional arranger," so I assume they are going after giggers.


My beef with the Tyros speakers is the fiddly setup (two sats and SW)...I prefer built ins, which is another reason why I use a PSR-S910.

Also, I'd never use an MP3 player, let alone need two of them, but there will be people that will find them essential in their performance.

These instruments, Tyros4 and Korg PA3X, are intended for different markets, although they do overlap in many places.

So far, the Yammie seems to be more of a player's instrument in style play mode, but, subsequent Korg demos may show they are closer than I think.

I know I'd sure love to spend a few days with a Korg...some of those styles are excellent.

Ian


At this point T4 is a Great sounding HOME players unit & the new Pa3x is much more from it's aluminum body, black look, sliders, Tc VH, editing, touch screen, chord sequencer, dual Mp3, & soooo many more features geared for a "live gigging musician"....it's a difficult choice that needs to be weighed by the individual needs of the player.

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#312390 - 01/14/11 11:15 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
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Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dnj


At this point T4 is a Great sounding HOME players unit & the new Pa3x is much more from it's aluminum body, black look, sliders, Tc VH, editing, touch screen, chord sequencer, dual Mp3, & soooo many more features geared for a "live gigging musician"....it's a difficult choice that needs to be weighed by the individual needs of the player.


In my district or sales area, we sell a lot of S-series to pro single performers (including a lot of guitar players/singers) and Tyros is 95% home product...very few performers using TOTL arrangers...most use S-series, or SMF players and a piano, or a workstation. The home market is very lucrative, as you know...they pay more money, much more willingly, than the pros, who need to make a living, and want a low overhead cost outlay. Pros will dicker over prices much more aggressively, hence the cheaper prices on workstations, and low profit on arrangers sold to pros.

Again, this is in my area...it may work out different elsewhere, although we do have a very high number of arrangers sold here...lots of interest...lots of clinics too.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#312400 - 01/14/11 12:04 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: ianmcnll]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
Originally Posted By: Dnj


At this point T4 is a Great sounding HOME players unit & the new Pa3x is much more from it's aluminum body, black look, sliders, Tc VH, editing, touch screen, chord sequencer, dual Mp3, & soooo many more features geared for a "live gigging musician"....it's a difficult choice that needs to be weighed by the individual needs of the player.


In my district or sales area, we sell a lot of S-series to pro single performers (including a lot of guitar players/singers) and Tyros is 95% home product...very few performers using TOTL arrangers...most use S-series, or SMF players and a piano, or a workstation. The home market is very lucrative, as you know...they pay more money, much more willingly, than the pros, who need to make a living, and want a low overhead cost outlay. Pros will dicker over prices much more aggressively, hence the cheaper prices on workstations, and low profit on arrangers sold to pros.

Again, this is in my area...it may work out different elsewhere, although we do have a very high number of arrangers sold here...lots of interest...lots of clinics too.

Ian


Having a Tyros at home with an additional complimentary
S Series for gigging really makes sense on many levels.

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#312402 - 01/14/11 12:17 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Frankieve has a video of him playing the PA3x on his Facebook page.
DonM
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#312404 - 01/14/11 12:27 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Scottyee Offline
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Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Don, I found the still pic, but 'where's' the video?

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#312405 - 01/14/11 12:29 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
One of the top posts on his page. Not Audioworks page, but Frank's page.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150393135730065#!/profile.php?id=862970064

DonM


Edited by DonM (01/14/11 12:30 PM)
Edit Reason: added link
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#312406 - 01/14/11 12:41 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
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Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
The acoustic guitar at the end sounds great...you seriously thinking of getting one, Don?

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#312407 - 01/14/11 01:12 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Nah, the PA3 is NOT for me!!!

Too close to what we already have, and there ARE better options coming soon .....

What's coming at MusikMesse, added to my PA2xPro will blow this PA3x off I think...

Can't say more than that at this stage wink

Dennis

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#312409 - 01/14/11 01:26 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
doc-z Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 436
Loc: Norway
Sounds great! Love how playing legato triggers what sounds like hammer-ons.

I hope Korg will post some high quality audio demos soon!

DocZ

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#312418 - 01/14/11 02:27 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Doc those things you can already do on the PA2x smile

It's the exact same DNC system.

All that has been changed on the PA3 is Korg have added a few more patches. BUT, the tech is exactly the same as on the PA2. You can even program your own DNC sounds on the PA2 (if you have the time or inclination) as well, as all the samples are on-board.

No,this unit is definitely no-where near enough of a change for me. All pretty much same-old same-old!!

Dennis

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#312419 - 01/14/11 02:39 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: Dnj
[quote=ianmcnll]

At this point T4 is a Great sounding HOME players unit & the new Pa3x is much more from it's aluminum body, black look, sliders, Tc VH, editing, touch screen, chord sequencer, dual Mp3, & soooo many more features geared for a "live gigging musician"....it's a difficult choice that needs to be weighed by the individual needs of the player.


they are all great instruments. They aren't toys. They will sound as pro as you want depending on how pro is the player. The Tyros is a pro instrument as it is the Korg.

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#312422 - 01/14/11 02:50 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: arranger_yes_pc_no

they are all great instruments. They aren't toys. They will sound as pro as you want depending on how pro is the player. The Tyros is a pro instrument as it is the Korg.


For a change, I actually agree with you smile

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#312424 - 01/14/11 02:59 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: vangelis]
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: vangelis
Looks like most here are putting salt in their soup before trying it, but for now from what I hear, I am leaning towards KETRON AUDYA or even a LIONSTRACS than anything else, two things that I am already disappointed, polyphony 128? and user RAM? 256 in what 24 bit? and 512 megs in 16 bit? what about compatability? are we starting from scratch again? with the PA3X? it looks like it? well, hardware wise LIONSTRACS blows everyone away with it's specs smile


yes the PAx3 specs don't look anything too groundbreaking.....what is it, 128 mb more RAM and 50 more styles? Wow. Big deal.
Not that Yamaha did much better with the Tyros 4...

It seems to me that the Kronos was the real advancement, with it's disk streaming for samples. It has 12 gb of samples. That's quite an advancement for a workstation.

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#312426 - 01/14/11 03:07 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
i guess my expectations were too high. I actually expected them to add totally new styles, totally new sounds etc. There are major differences in terms of the added features but i am simply not impressed . It souinds no different to what i hear on my PA1X. I know much was made of the EDS sound system but i could not hear any major difference. It wasnt night and day. This is mostly repackaged PA1X with some deeper functionality. With Tyros range you can hear the difference between the T2 and T4. Not so much with the T3 to T4 but still there is a difference sonically that you can actually hear.

I really really wanted to love the PA3x but so far i am not. Maybe the additional functionality in terms of the FX Routing etc might be worth looking at more deeply but not for nearly £4000 . nope , Korg are not getting my money this time. Neither is yamaha. i will stick with my Pax another couple of years

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#312439 - 01/14/11 05:06 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
How you perceive sounds, and the type of sounds you like, (Not forgetting comparing them with real instruments) can make a big difference to how you rate a keyboard.

As an example, when I heard and tried the T3 (A number of times) I found that apart from the SA2 voices it was way inferior to the T2 (1 step forward, 3 steps back (To me a bit of a lemon) with a very poor compressed sound.
The T4 however (To me) I find is so far ahead of the T3 (It’s what the T3 should have been) that it is a worthy successor to the T2, and Yamaha can be proud.

Contrast this with the PA2x, (After the first update) which for me was so far ahead of the PA1x as to be unbelievable (It was like chalk and cheese).
As to the PA3x,(Like all keyboards) I will have to wait till I hear it and try it live, as there are just too many variables in online demos.

As you can see, the above is pretty much exactly opposite to Spalding’s perception of the instruments. (Hence I always say, try the keyboard live and compare it with real instruments before making a decision)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#312465 - 01/14/11 09:35 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: abacus]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: abacus
How you perceive sounds, and the type of sounds you like, (Not forgetting comparing them with real instruments) can make a big difference to how you rate a keyboard.

As an example, when I heard and tried the T3 (A number of times) I found that apart from the SA2 voices it was way inferior to the T2 (1 step forward, 3 steps back (To me a bit of a lemon) with a very poor compressed sound.
The T4 however (To me) I find is so far ahead of the T3 (It’s what the T3 should have been) that it is a worthy successor to the T2, and Yamaha can be proud.

Contrast this with the PA2x, (After the first update) which for me was so far ahead of the PA1x as to be unbelievable (It was like chalk and cheese).
As to the PA3x,(Like all keyboards) I will have to wait till I hear it and try it live, as there are just too many variables in online demos.

As you can see, the above is pretty much exactly opposite to Spalding’s perception of the instruments. (Hence I always say, try the keyboard live and compare it with real instruments before making a decision)

Bill


Bill posts like this only heighten the need for more OPEN ARCHITECTURE keyboards....it's nuts buying, selling, every 2 years or so......these companies are raping the public.

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#312471 - 01/14/11 09:50 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
No, no, when you consent, it's not rape!
smile
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#312472 - 01/14/11 09:54 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: DonM]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: DonM
No, no, when you consent, it's not rape!
smile
DonM


Thats the scary part...... cry

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#312485 - 01/15/11 12:55 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: abacus]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: abacus
How you perceive sounds, and the type of sounds you like, (Not forgetting comparing them with real instruments) can make a big difference to how you rate a keyboard.

As an example, when I heard and tried the T3 (A number of times) I found that apart from the SA2 voices it was way inferior to the T2 (1 step forward, 3 steps back (To me a bit of a lemon) with a very poor compressed sound.
The T4 however (To me) I find is so far ahead of the T3 (It’s what the T3 should have been) that it is a worthy successor to the T2, and Yamaha can be proud.

Contrast this with the PA2x, (After the first update) which for me was so far ahead of the PA1x as to be unbelievable (It was like chalk and cheese).
As to the PA3x,(Like all keyboards) I will have to wait till I hear it and try it live, as there are just too many variables in online demos.

As you can see, the above is pretty much exactly opposite to Spalding’s perception of the instruments. (Hence I always say, try the keyboard live and compare it with real instruments before making a decision)

Bill


The difference is bill that i play my PA1X every day both live and recording, through external speakers mixing desks and the internal speakers. I know each sound very intimately so i know when i am hearing the same sound from the same samples again. Forget the marketing. EDS means nothing when i know i am hearing 80% of the same samples because i play those samples everyday. Thats why i know the step up from the PA2X and 3X sonically is minor. For a short while the Korg PA.com site had the PA800, PA1x and PA2X demos at the same time on their site. All recorded using the same parameters . Many of the demos styles were exactly the same for all three models and all three demos sounded exactly the same. At the time when i pointed this out i was told ' you have to hear it live , you cant tell from online demos' . However i have since heard the 2x live and i am glad i trusted my ears originaly. The only difference is DNC technology but tell me what has korg done with that ? Where are the styles or individual sounds that exploit DNC techniques. Compare the list of SA1 and SA2 sounds from yamaha and pit it against the very best DNC sound (of the handful) Korg have to offer. I am a straight up Korg fan but if i were marking Korg for their latest offering in terms of an upgarded keyboard i would have to give them a C+ . They could and should have done much better .

No doubt they will still sell loads of them but if you think i have gauged it wrong go to the korg forum site and see how quiet the PA3X or 2x forums are. Either people have been shocked into silence or noone wants to say the 'the king is not wearing any clothes' (if you remeber the story).

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#312486 - 01/15/11 12:58 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: spalding1968]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
PS i am begining to sound like Diki and his love hate relationship with Roland ha ha ha !! laugh

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#312498 - 01/15/11 05:33 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Spalding
All valid points for the Korg, however neither of us own Tyros keyboards, and our perceptions of them are still almost totally opposite.

Regarding SA & DNC
The Yamaha sets up everything for you, but has limited editing, whereas the Korg DNC can be truly personalised to your playing style.

As to which you prefer (1 button press and everything done for you, or you get given the tools and then do with it as you please) is a personal choice, and I am in the camp of full user customisation. (Hence my preference for Wersi OAS, as I am not dictated to by the manufacture as to what sounds I can and cannot have)

Should be interesting to see what the PA3x is priced at, as at the moment the PA2x is the cheapest TOTL Arranger out there, (At least until the Music Store specked Pegasus Wing is launched) and significantly cheaper than a T4.

Diki has probably already ordered one, as he has always said over the years (In many posts) that the first manufacture to add a Chord Sequencer would get him to open his wallet.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#312502 - 01/15/11 06:11 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: abacus]
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: abacus


Regarding SA & DNC
The Yamaha sets up everything for you, but has limited editing, whereas the Korg DNC can be truly personalised to your playing style.



that's how it looks on the surface. Surprisingly, the Yamaha has something very useful that the Korg doesn't have: the chord track. I am always saying this.

And the chord track is the reason why I have chosen a Tyros, other than the great sounds, otherwise I would probably go for a Korg too as it has more editing capabilities, as you said.

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#312503 - 01/15/11 06:17 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
I personally think theat people that love the Korg sound, could better go for a KRonos and then add an Audya 4 for style play, or even better after the Musik messe the new Groove module brought to us by James... If only they could get us high quallity styles comming from their high quallity machine....
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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#312505 - 01/15/11 07:08 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Here's the very latest Korg Pa 3x demo:
given by Steve McNally at the Naam Korg booth yesterday ( Jan 14th):


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#312506 - 01/15/11 07:35 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
It seems odd that manufacturers would showcase something and it won't even be out for likely another five months. That's a long time! It seems they would get more sales by people wanting one. The I-want-it-now syndrome.
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#312510 - 01/15/11 08:08 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
doc-z Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 436
Loc: Norway
I'ts Moore's fault!

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#312520 - 01/15/11 09:29 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Tyros 4 or psr s 910 has nothing to worry about.

Yammy style auto fill (after 10 years) Roland style Chord sequener/More FX and great harware and improved VH.But these guys are still missing the point .Korg styles (Long train running style sound the same as PA 50) in general still suck.

Wake up Korg! = If oyu can't fix your style department (more and more), you are not fixing anything (if you want to sell an arranger).

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#312524 - 01/15/11 10:33 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
I just hate the way that sound bar looks .... it better sound good, but I'm skeptical!
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#312525 - 01/15/11 10:43 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Uncle Dave]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
I am surprised that musicians on this forum some of them even pros judge the PA3x based on youtube videos. Amazing.

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#312527 - 01/15/11 10:56 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: FransN]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By: FransN
I am surprised that musicians on this forum some of them even pros judge the PA3x based on youtube videos. Amazing.


Thats true, but i personally think the specs are almost identical to the PA2X, no innovation at all... So it has to be the sound that improved hugely, but from people that visited NAMM is that it almost sounds identical to PA2X, with minor upgrades..

Seems Korg itally did what Yamaha is doing for the last decennium..... minor upgrades to get as much money as possible out of outdated hardware...
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#312530 - 01/15/11 11:01 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
jamman,
MANY people prefer the Korg styles to the Yamaha styles.
Otherwise...why would they sell more arrangers 'world wide' than Yamaha?

Yamaha styles are great at intros and endings but sometimes too simple(boring) in the VARS. Korg does not have many sound specific styles...but many very useful general purpose styles with lots of content in the VARS (Yes sometimes too much and it's easy t turn thoe parts off).

I like them both.
Too bad we can't run both any either one!

Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#312532 - 01/15/11 11:09 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Come on gang...you CAN NOT judge the sounds, styles etc from these lousy, poorly done demos. You need to play one yourself, try the sounds that you care about and check out all the styles yourself.

Speaking of demos...Korg should be embarased by the demos they have done. You talk about unprepared....If I were the manager of Korg USA...I would be thinking of something better (like replacements). Come to think of it...Kog has never ben woth a Shxx on demos...as compaed to Yamaha anyways.

If I ran the operation...I would step up the professinalism and quality of the demos 10 fold. Don't they know were all watching.

I have heard very few actual sounds, or styles...seems like they do the same kind of demo each time. Yes I know it's a show...but...lots of first impressions are not so good to many people! If your going to launch a new product...do it right.

OK...I feel better.....
Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#312533 - 01/15/11 11:12 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Bachus]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Bachus
Originally Posted By: FransN
I am surprised that musicians on this forum some of them even pros judge the PA3x based on youtube videos. Amazing.


Thats true, but i personally think the specs are almost identical to the PA2X, no innovation at all... So it has to be the sound that improved hugely, but from people that visited NAMM is that it almost sounds identical to PA2X, with minor upgrades..

Seems Korg itally did what Yamaha is doing for the last decennium..... minor upgrades to get as much money as possible out of outdated hardware...


Minor upgrades?
Look again. Problem is people want to much and pay less. Personally I find the sound of the PAX2x already great and now they have 128 mb more of great sounds so what do you want more? And with all these advanced features on the PA3x he is still about $1000 cheaper then the Tyros4. Again what do you want more? All I hear is complaining. I think Korg did a great job on the PA3x

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#312535 - 01/15/11 11:22 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: leeboy]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Originally Posted By: leeboy
jamman,
why would they sell more arrangers 'world wide' than Yamaha?


Korg sells more arrangers 'world wide' than Yamaha?! shocked
Lee, where are you getting your information from? crazy

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#312536 - 01/15/11 11:26 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Scottyee]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: Scottyee
Originally Posted By: leeboy
jamman,
why would they sell more arrangers 'world wide' than Yamaha?


Korg sells more arrangers 'world wide' than Yamaha?! shocked
Lee, where are you getting your information from? crazy


Perhaps Lee is referring to TOTL (and/or MOTL) arrangers?

If you add up all the Tyros, and PSR sold worldwide, there may be drastically different results. wink

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#312538 - 01/15/11 11:29 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Bill,
Quite honestly it is the sounds that really matter to me in the end...my gosh...the features in th PA2 were pretty darn complete.

Read the specs again...there is plenty there. 4 fills, autofill, chord sequencer, my GOD esentially a Voice Live 2 VH.that's huge, twice the intermal ram means much better souds, 8 effects...that's twice the PA2, new drums technology, 120 oscillators instead of 19, final mastering efects by WAVES...that's top drawer, new pianos & EP's (no there not the same as PA32), My GOD now we can inport many file formats to the sampler, includin Akai, 50 new styles, realtine channels nowhave buttons---hurrah!, imprved TFT touch screen, more DNC sounds.

That's a lot...

That's a H of a lot more than the change from T3 - T4.

Me...I'm looking to hear it...and I mean top qulity demos of many of the sounds and styles. Better yet, in person...then I can hear the sounds I care about.

If they did't get the sounds I like/need right...the I will get a T4. I love the depth, editng and all the PRO features of the PA....but I will not comproise the sounds. Not again.

Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#312540 - 01/15/11 11:31 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: leeboy]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Thanks for summing up all the extra features Lee. And some call this minor upgrades smile

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#312542 - 01/15/11 11:38 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Scott, it is true...The Mid-East, asia, etc buy TONS of the PA because of some of the unique featues they need. Mostly the PA800. Go to You-Tube & put in Korg PA800, the demos won't be Frank Sinatra!
If you talk USA, UK etc...Yamaha would be much more than Korg.

Can't say...but it is the same person that gave me the specs on the new PA3 weeks ago. And you notice I only said...get ready it's coming. Let's put it this way...he's not in Kansas!

It's real easy to forget about all the rest of the world, no matter here you live.

Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#312544 - 01/15/11 11:41 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: leeboy]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: leeboy

Quite honestly it is the sounds that really matter to me in the end...my gosh...the features in th PA2 were pretty darn complete.

If they did't get the sounds I like/need right...the I will get a T4. I love the depth, editng and all the PRO features of the PA....but I will not comproise the sounds. Not again.

Lee S.


Sound is probably the most basic of reasons why we buy...new features are great, but we can do workarounds regarding the lack of them...sound, however, has to be great to begin with.

I think the Korg has really added some great features, and, at least on paper (or specs), it appears the sound is also improved....but, as you say, hearing it and playing it in person will be the deciding factor for those who want excellent sound as the most important feature.

Not being a vocalist, I rely on useful and very playable sounds for my gigs.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#312545 - 01/15/11 11:44 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Ian,
Absolutely true..Korg has no entry level machines...I would love to have just a nickel for every Yamaha keyboard of any kind sold. :-)

I am only talking MOTL and TOTL arrangers.

By the way...one reason I am re-evaluating the Korg vs Yamaha is the fact that so many Korgs players are non-US. Many are superb musicians...but I don't have anythig in common with them as to music...so the commorodery is not there. And maybe the T4 sounds are more suited to what I play/enjoy?? Not sure yet...I'll have to see how the PA3 sounds.

Maybe I can have more fun and commorodery with th Yamaha gang?

Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#312552 - 01/15/11 12:16 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: leeboy]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Originally Posted By: leeboy
.By the way...one reason I am re-evaluating the Korg vs Yamaha is the fact that so many Korgs players are non-US.

Perhaps the "BIG" attraction to Korg (and Ketron) arrangers, especially by the middle eastern market, is because they produce 'oriental versions' of their arrangers. I believe the last Yamaha produced oriental arranger was the PSR OR-700. What makes the 'oriental' arranger unique are it's Arabic drum-kits & Arabic instrument voices, and it's unique on deck 'set of buttons' which allows you to conveniently change the scale tunings.

Interestingly enough, one of my middle eastern musician friends has recently shown me how to turn my Tyros 4 into a middle eastern 'oriental' keyboard by assigning the various middle eastern scale tunings to reg (1-8) and importing custom middle eastern drum-kit sampled instruments. I believe once more middle eastern musicians discover this, they'll be drawn to the Tyros 4 as well. Bottom line, I believe Tyros 4 a most versatile instrument suited to many many styles of music, from music studio production to on stage performance. smile

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#312577 - 01/15/11 01:50 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Scottyee]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I think that it's probably a case of Korg users, rejoice! Everyone else that already had decided against Korg PA2, the difference isn't radical enough. Which is fair enough, because, bottom line, if you didn't like the T3, you probably don't go ape over the T4, either.

With pretty much ALL keyboards coming out with new product that has at BEST 10% new stuff in them (samples and styles), who in their right mind honestly expects anything radical and game-changing? Not only would it cost a FORTUNE to produce, it would alienate all their existing customers that DO like the previous product.

I am going to be disappointed if Korg have only managed to come up with a tiny few DNC sounds for the PA3. To be honest, it's this feature alone that can get then into parity with Yamaha, at least for RH sounds. They have the technology, to not leverage it is shortsighted. At LEAST matching Yamaha's SA2 count with genuine NEW sounds recorded specifically for the feature would seem to be necessary, or they are STILL playing 'catch-up'. And yes, 50 NEW styles is paltry. If it is backwards compatible, which apparently it is, they should ALL be new, and users can load in their old favorites as needed. When you are behind in a race, that's the time to try HARDER, not coast...

Maybe things will turn around for me this season down here on the Oil Coast... I know I always said 'first out with a CS, I get it', but honestly, most of my work these last two years has been live band and studio, so it's not as big a deal as it used to be. But I have a close friend who will be getting one for sure. His entire ACT revolves around them (he's a great two fisted player) to the point that, while he has a G70 and a GW-8, he STILL gigs on a G1000 or G600, just for the CS. So, at least I'll get to try one when they come out...

I am amazed at the feeding frenzy that goes on whenever any new product is thrown in with the sharks at NAMM. How many times have you seen something that got torn apart based on a few lousy NAMM demos turn out to be a pretty decent piece of kit? I blame overly optimistic (blue-sky high, to be honest) expectations from people that SHOULD know better..!

C'mon, man! What was the LAST thing you ever saw in a keyboard that was UTTERLY new, different and game changing from it's previous model? For me, it was probably the DX7... And that's a LONG time ago!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#312583 - 01/15/11 02:09 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
doc-z Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 436
Loc: Norway
"Game changers" do not come arround very often, simply because they are milestones that cost a fortune to create, and they are supposed to set the standard for many generations to come. Usually they make "mini game changers" that show off new technology to test the waters. Anyone remember the Yamaha VL series? Also Yamaha is a larger corporation than Korg, they will be a lot more hesitant to do new things - and they produce so much more than just keyboards - keyboards are probably only a tiny fraction of their revenue. I also think that this NAMM was pushed on Korg USA and they might not have been ready for it. If the PA3X was scheduled for a April release, maybe the demos were planned for the Musikmesse instead of NAMM. I have seen many other demos by the Korg guys where they were far better prepaired. Steve can actually make Michael Voncken look like an accountant when he is in the zone. wink Also if Korg is talking about creating a style store, and want beta testers for the OS - that tells me that the final PA3X is far from finished, and we might see even more minor features when it is officially released.

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#312585 - 01/15/11 02:16 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Bachus]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: Bachus
.....go for a KRonos and then add an Audya 4 for style play, or even better after the Musik messe the new Groove module brought to us by James...


Truer than you think Bachus...

Oh and the Groove XR, strictly speaking is NOT be brought to you by James, or Irish Acts et al.

There has been a business collaboration between some folks to create a new company to build and create the XR.

More details at MusikMesse, but suffice it to say, it has been re-built from the ground up. Brand new up to date componentry. New and updated audio output stages and amps. Brand new PCB designs and construction.

The new XR is really going to turn a lot of heads....I don't want to sound like I am a fanatic, I'm not, but this XR rack, apart from the Kronos, is the first thing in a long time to get me really excited about a coming release. Even to the point of pre-ordering, sight unseen!!!

James IS contributing very heavily, and is providing all the ORIGINAL (fully created by Irish Acts Studios) sample base. Of course all the usual Giga Sample capability will be there too.

But for me, getting a full sound-set created by James is worth the "price of admission!!!"

Anyway, keep it on your diaries to check it out when MusikMesse arrives.

I cannot say much more than that. But check this link for a lot more info..... http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57931

Dennis

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#312586 - 01/15/11 02:21 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Have Korg done something similar to Yamaha and allowed for protected style formats then? Opening a 'style store' to style creators, without copy protection is of no more use than whatever marketing opportunities style creators already have. If the style can be copied and emailed to another user, that's 90% of the revenue GONE. Whether Korg handle the transaction or the creator does it himself...

And if Korg want to send me a PA3, I'll beta test the bejeezus out of it for them! They aren't getting it back, mind you... wink
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#312629 - 01/16/11 01:35 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: leeboy]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Originally Posted By: leeboy
Scott, it is true...The Mid-East, asia, etc buy TONS of the PA because of some of the unique featues they need. Mostly the PA800. Go to You-Tube & put in Korg PA800, the demos won't be Frank Sinatra!
If you talk USA, UK etc...Yamaha would be much more than Korg.

Can't say...but it is the same person that gave me the specs on the new PA3 weeks ago. And you notice I only said...get ready it's coming. Let's put it this way...he's not in Kansas!

It's real easy to forget about all the rest of the world, no matter here you live.

Lee S.







Asia - Incorrect


KORG SELLS MOST IN MID EAST (TURKEY/GREECE/ARABIC COUNTRIES/BALKANS AND EAST EURO COUNTRIES), THEIR LOCAL STYLE SOUND SUPPORT IS GREAT.ALL MOST ALL ARRANGER GIGERS/SMF PLAYERS HAVE KORGS(USED TO BE ROLAND IN THE 90'S).

EXCEPT FROM INDIA (AND NEW CHINESSE PA 500 VERSION) THE REST OF THE ASIA IS DOMINTAED BY YAMAHA - THAI/MALY/INDO/V'NEM AND PHILIPPINES AND OF COURSE JAPAN TOO. THEY PLAY WESTERN (NOT COUNTRY) TYPE POP AND BALLADS IN GENERAL.

HOW EVER MID EAST ( AND EAST EURO FOR A MINOR PART)MARKET IS MORE THAN 50% OF OVERALL AND KORG IS NOT WILLING TO GIVE TO YAMAHA. YAMAHA'S OR VERSIONS FAILS TO COMPETE WITH KORG MAINLY DUE TO LESS PUNCHINESS AND UNABLE TO LOAD SAMPLE DATA PLUS LACK OF LOCAL STYLE SUPPORT.



US/CANADA WEST EU AND MOST ASIA - YAMAHA
MID EAST/EAST EU - KORG


IT'S ALL ABOUT STYLES. KORG HAS MORE 9/8s WRITTEN FOR THEM AND YAMAHA HAS MORE 4/4s WRITTEN FOR THEM .FOR WESTERN STYLE USING GIGING MUSICIAN (NOT THE SMF PLAYER) YAMAHA IS REGULARLY CHOSEN.

TYPE PA SERIES IN YOU TUBE - 90% OF THEM WILL BE MID EAST USERS.
TYPE TYROS OR PSR - 90% WILL BE WESTERN (NOR COUNTRY)MUSIC STYLE PLAYERS

EVEN THOUGH KORG HAS OVERALL PUNCHINESS/LIVE SOUND /BETTER HARDWARE - THEIR 4/4 DEPARTMENT MUST BE IMPROVED TO STEAL THE MARKET.

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#312631 - 01/16/11 02:50 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: jamman]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Originally Posted By: jamman
[
IT'S ALL ABOUT STYLES. KORG HAS MORE 9/8s WRITTEN FOR THEM AND YAMAHA HAS MORE 4/4s WRITTEN FOR THEM .FOR WESTERN STYLE USING GIGING MUSICIAN (NOT THE SMF PLAYER) YAMAHA IS REGULARLY CHOSEN.

TYPE PA SERIES IN YOU TUBE - 90% OF THEM WILL BE MID EAST USERS.
TYPE TYROS OR PSR - 90% WILL BE WESTERN (NOR COUNTRY)MUSIC STYLE PLAYERS

EVEN THOUGH KORG HAS OVERALL PUNCHINESS/LIVE SOUND /BETTER HARDWARE - THEIR 4/4 DEPARTMENT MUST BE IMPROVED TO STEAL THE MARKET.



i'M OFCOURSE TALKING ABOUT STYLE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT.

WITH THE PA 3X (4 FILLS WITH AUTO FILL BUTTON ) HOPEFULLY THE GAME WILL CHANGE.IF ALL YAMMY STYLES WILL BE CONVERTED WITH CORRECT FILLS (THAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH 800/2 X -3 FILLS/BREAK BUTTON )AND THAT MEANS YOU'LL HAVE A BOARD WITH BEST OF BOTH WORLDS IF YOU SPEND ENOUGH TIME TO RE TWEAK THE CONVERTED STYLES.

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#312636 - 01/16/11 03:35 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Diki]
Nick G Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: Diki
And yes, 50 NEW styles is paltry. If it is backwards compatible, which apparently it is, they should ALL be new, and users can load in their old favorites as needed. When you are behind in a race, that's the time to try HARDER, not coast...


Hey Diki I agree with you for sure here but I think Korg have undercut them self by saying "50 new styles"...

the truth is they probably still kept the rest of the styles from the PA 2X's names the same but re worked most of the style parts to make them sound different.

Yamaha Do this with the Tyros 3 - 4... Tyros 4 probably only has about 50-100 "new" styles but the remaining 200-300 still have the same name as the previous model but they could sound completely different...

I Doubt that every style ported across from the PA2X into the 3X will sound the same. There will be re voicing and complete new arpeggios / loops etc...

this is something you cant really tell until you go into a store and play one. But it is definitely something I have noticed over the years with upgrading Yamaha PSR and Tyros Keyboards...

Nick
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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#312643 - 01/16/11 05:19 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
CAPS LOCK IS ANNOYING, WHY ALL THIS SHOUTING?

Btw,
agree, arranger keyboards are about styles, that's why it's an arranger, or...?
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#312795 - 01/17/11 02:59 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: jamman]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Originally Posted By: jamman
Originally Posted By: jamman
[
IT'S ALL ABOUT STYLES. KORG HAS MORE 9/8s WRITTEN FOR THEM AND YAMAHA HAS MORE 4/4s WRITTEN FOR THEM .FOR WESTERN STYLE USING GIGING MUSICIAN (NOT THE SMF PLAYER) YAMAHA IS REGULARLY CHOSEN.

TYPE PA SERIES IN YOU TUBE - 90% OF THEM WILL BE MID EAST USERS.
TYPE TYROS OR PSR - 90% WILL BE WESTERN (NOR COUNTRY)MUSIC STYLE PLAYERS

EVEN THOUGH KORG HAS OVERALL PUNCHINESS/LIVE SOUND /BETTER HARDWARE - THEIR 4/4 DEPARTMENT MUST BE IMPROVED TO STEAL THE MARKET.



i'M OFCOURSE TALKING ABOUT STYLE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT.

WITH THE PA 3X (4 FILLS WITH AUTO FILL BUTTON ) HOPEFULLY THE GAME WILL CHANGE.IF ALL YAMMY STYLES WILL BE CONVERTED WITH CORRECT FILLS (THAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH 800/2 X -3 FILLS/BREAK BUTTON )AND THAT MEANS YOU'LL HAVE A BOARD WITH BEST OF BOTH WORLDS IF YOU SPEND ENOUGH TIME TO RE TWEAK THE CONVERTED STYLES.


Hey how about not posting in ALL CAPS ... and please don't quote yourself ... that is like "forum masturbating" !!!!!!! Strike One, Strike Two ...... You know what comes next.


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#312833 - 01/17/11 01:29 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Quantity of new styles too me is not as imprtant as the whole mix in there...how good are they ALL and how do they utilise the new sunds?
We will not know until we get or hands on one...and some good youtube and official demos come out. Youtube demos/songs can be outstanding IF done corretly by someone who knows what they are doing.

Here is a good example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUSxxRPtsac&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
And:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7X9fCpbyw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

THis one shows lots of orchestral voices too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVbJLg8bXiI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

If you listen to all his songs...I think you get a pretty good idea of what a T3 and T4 sound like.

Audio wise..no not as good as live...but pretty well done!
I would like the same on PA3...I'm probably hoping for too much.

Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#312843 - 01/17/11 02:44 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: leeboy]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Well, anyone that sees '50 new styles' and DOESN'T think that many of the previous ROM styles are re-worked to leverage the new sounds and capabilities hasn't been around arrangers for very long..!

BUT.... to be fair, I have never heard a re-worked style, especially one that one is intimately familiar with the previous incarnation of it, sound TRULY significantly better than the original. Yes, there's a nice improvement, but it often seems like the arranger manufacturers use these updated styles as a reason NOT to make new ones. Often little more than changing sounds of the old style is done, and Lord knows, we can do that ourselves pretty easy!

What I'd like is a completely NEW ROM set of styles, backwards compatibility with the old ones, and for those too lazy to edit the old styles themselves, an option to BUY the previous set, already tweaked for the new arranger.

But, sadly, you think 50 NEW styles, what are the odds that possibly 50% or more of those are in genre's you have no use for? So, you got 25 NEW styles you can use. Humbug! I payed $3500 for 25 new styles??!

Not good enough. Not good enough by FAR, IMO....

(and before this breaks down into a 'mine is bigger than yours', be honest... Just how many TOTALLY new styles did the T4 introduce - not re-works - or the Audya, or any new arranger?)

As crippled as arrangers are, compared to their WS siblings, what you are primarily paying for is CONTENT. And you aren't honestly getting a lot for it, I fear.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#312862 - 01/17/11 03:17 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I've spent quite a bit of time playing Tyros 4, and they did indeed include quite a few new styles. Most of them are in categories I don't use much though. I was expecting a lot out of the new drum kit, but on many of the country styles, I had to look in the mixer to see what kit was being used. Sure enough it was the new Live one, but my ears had trouble hearing the difference.
Yes there are many thousands of Yamaha styles floating around, but they aren't going to sound any better on a new keyboard unless you take the time to edit each one.
Even with the Audya, I find about half of the styles I use are carried over from the SD series. At least Ketron went to the trouble to tweak them for the Audya though.
I'm glad we have so many good choices, even though none of them will ever be perfect.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#312864 - 01/17/11 03:26 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: Dnj
[quote=abacus]

Bill posts like this only heighten the need for more OPEN ARCHITECTURE keyboards....it's nuts buying, selling, every 2 years or so......these companies are raping the public.


exactly. In a few years, all these 'closed architecture' keyboards will be a thing of the past.
And yes, it's nuts spending £ 3500 on an instrument , reselling it after 3 years and losing £ 1500 on it, plus forking out another £ 1000.

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#312867 - 01/17/11 03:43 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
As fast as computer 'architectures' change, anyone thinks an 'open' system future-proofs them is a bit optimistic.

Let's just take the expansion slots as an example. In the last ten years, there have been FOUR new, totally incompatible slots for computers, from PCI through to PCI-e (or whatever is newest, I can't keep track of them all!). There have been three changes to USB. There have been innumerable chipset changes, and some significant differences between different CPU architectures.

These are where your soundcards go, where your storage peripherals and external controllers come into the system, where the raw computation of the entire machine resides. Not exactly 'future-proof' by any means...

Secondly, you have to take into consideration the enormous COST of developing the sounds, styles (especially the styles) and the OS of any of these arranger products. If the development costs are ONLY paid for by minor upgrade fees, that's a DRASTIC loss of revenue compared to what a manufacturer gets by selling you an entire NEW keyboard to go along with those styles and sounds and features. Now, you might THINK the closed arranger manufacturers are greedy bastards who are just out to rape you, but that money is NEEDED... I mean, just take a look at just how POOR all the included content is with open arrangers, how unintegrated and piecemeal it is, how it compares very poorly to a closed one. All that extra money that buying the closed arranger is going towards some VERY important 'software' features. Ones that, without that higher cost, are being short-changed on the open arranger.

There's both sides to this coin, all is NOT nirvana in open-land, and wishing that the same amount of work be done for you for a tiny fraction of the price is dreaming in the extreme.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#312871 - 01/17/11 04:28 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Don,

Carol told me the third thing to go was the hearing. She said the second thing to go was the mind, and I don't remember what the first thing was. wink

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be global tuning software within any keyboard's OS for just the drum kits--at least none that I know of. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Fortunately, registrations can do some wonderful things, and there's lots of ways to utilize and access them.

Cheers,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#312876 - 01/17/11 05:15 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
So...how many styles do you need?
Well, I bet most of us use maybe 50 styles total?
What's important is whether the ones you like/need are there.

Same goes for sounds...give me 100 top notch sounds that don't have damm problems with them...don't need 1,000 sounds.
How many sounds are in a full orchestra + an average band...
Add different pianos, E-pinos, some ethnic stuff...100 wound be enough if all of them were top notch and useable for lots of songs.

To me quality is more important than quantity.
Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#312880 - 01/17/11 06:03 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki
Hate to disillusion you, but PCI cards came out about the middle 90s, and they are still available on the very latest motherboards. (Including those that use the very latest CPU from Intel)
CPU, Chipsets & Ram have no relevance, as when you upgrade to a new one, (So that you don’t have to change the whole keyboard to get uprated performance) you just load the drivers in for it, and away you go again.
USB is backward compatible, so again no problems with that either.
In fact pretty much everything you say about computers above is totally incorrect.
TIP: Get at least a basic understanding of a subject before commenting on it, that way there is less chance of inadvertently giving the wrong information.

As to poor content in Open Arrangers then I suggest you look at the amount of players that have bought Wersi OAS instruments over other manufactures, (Professionals and Home users) as they give them the performance and sounds they are looking for. (Not everybody wants the same sounds/styles/setup as you)

Bill



Edited by abacus (01/17/11 06:07 PM)
Edit Reason: Mispelling
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#312885 - 01/17/11 07:17 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
If I could pick 'em, and I guess I can actually, I could be happy with 100 styles and about 100 sounds.
A few guitars, both electric and acoustic, a great piano or two, a few saxophones, organs, brass, horns, harmonica, Cajun accordion, Fiddle, strings, banjo, oohs and aahs. I could cover those with 50 slots easily. A few sound effects for fun would be nice. I don't use many synth sounds; some people could use 50 of those alone I'm sure.
Look at your average five or six piece bands, rock, country, blues, and I need all the instruments they play.
But of course I WANT MORE!
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#312893 - 01/17/11 09:17 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: vangelis]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By: vangelis
Looks like most here are putting salt in their soup before trying it, but for now from what I hear, I am leaning towards KETRON AUDYA or even a LIONSTRACS than anything else, two things that I am already disappointed, polyphony 128? and user RAM? 256 in what 24 bit? and 512 megs in 16 bit? what about compatability? are we starting from scratch again? with the PA3X? it looks like it? well, hardware wise LIONSTRACS blows everyone away with it's specs smile


Well, specs don't tell the story. If specs made a damn bit of difference, we would ALL be playing MS's. Even YOU aren't. I guess the sound, and how well it works counts for SOMETHING?!

128 voices is more than enough. An entire orchestra doesn't have that many players in it!

More is always better, but there comes a time when enough is OK... 128 did it, I believe. What I believe I'm seeing here is what I call 'creeping specitis'... Well if 128 is good, then 256 MUST be better, and if something HAS 256, then 128 is no longer good enough. If it works fine with USB1, then USB2 comes out, it no longer works fine. If you have never filled up 256MB of RAM in your life, but something comes out with a GB, then 256MB is no longer good enough...

Until you actually ARE bumping solidly into the spec limits of your current equipment, then anything that comes out with more isn't really of any use. It's kind of like, if you rarely drive over 100mph, and your current car's top speed is 150mph, why is a car that does 200mph needed by you?

So what if the MS has more voices... are its styles and sounds better set up than a T4? Few would say so. So, what good are those specs now?

Let's look at bit depth. Every CD you have ever bought has been 16 bit. You probably listen to most of your music through crappy speakers playing MP3's, if the truth be told. But all of a sudden, 16 bit samples aren't good enough? Give me a break! Lousy 24 bit samples don't sound anywhere near as good as carefully crafted 16 bit ones. It is the sample itself, not its bit depth, that makes up 99.9% of a sound's quality.

Concentrate a little less on NUMBERS, and start to listen to the MUSIC those numbers make, and you'll quickly find that numbers are a game for mathematicians, not musicians...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#312897 - 01/17/11 09:49 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Diki]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Bill, have you got one of the older Wersi's that CAN'T be upgraded to the latest OAS? Tell THEM that they are future-proofed, why don't you.

And, you missed the point so completely about the hardware aspect, I am going to try again. It's not that THESE older standards are available on the current set of MOBO's. It's that NEXT YEAR, something will probably come out that blows it all away. So much for 'future-proofed'. And modern VSTi's leverage the extra power modern chipsets have. Try running Omnisphere on a ten year old computer. Try running the Arturia stuff on even a five year old computer. Try running next year's hot VSTi on last year's computer.

You change out all the innards, how is this different from simply buying a new arranger? Even if you retain compatibility with the new hardware and the old OS and software, you have still spent quite a bit to be 'future-proofed'. I can sell an older arranger for not THAT much less than the new one costs. Both seem viable options, and may not be THAT different in price to do, if you need a total changeout.

And, I tell you what... THIS time around, perhaps you could TRY to remain civil to me when you disagree? Or should we all go back to the bad old days? I'm game if you are!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#312898 - 01/17/11 09:52 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Diki]
Nick G Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: Diki


Concentrate a little less on NUMBERS, and start to listen to the MUSIC those numbers make, and you'll quickly find that numbers are a game for mathematicians, not musicians...


100% I for one agree and I am all for this statement!
I have run into countless situations in the past debating the age of Yamaha's 'sound engines' (AWM/AWM2) against other products "newer" sound engines" and to me I don't care what the technology is behind it - I just want to see and hear the results!!

I don't want to start a debate about better than yours but so far all I have seen from the Korg Kronos is alot of talk about the '9 sound engines' and it all being a 'game changer'. This may be technology break through but I'de prefer to brag about what you can actually hear and achieve... Not just by what technology is in the guts of the machine.

And please dont get me wrong - I am not saying the Korg Kronos sounds Sh1t and the Motif XF is better... not by a long shot. but I am just merely using this as a pure example... don't be fooled by marketing fluff...

Nick

_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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#312918 - 01/18/11 02:44 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944

Donny and the pee taking goes on and on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdBFMCFo0M4&feature=related

Tony
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#312920 - 01/18/11 02:54 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
confused

If you can't make good music with only 16-32 voices then you really have a problem. Don't blame the polyphony. Sure more voices is great ... but not essential if you know what you are doing.

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#312924 - 01/18/11 03:37 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki
All Wersi OAS models from their inception can still be upgraded to the latest OAS version until the middle of this year, (Almost 12 years after their launch) and as the latest version OAS 7) came out 5 years or so ago, most users have already upgraded, so once again your comments have little relevance. (The latest OAS 7 version is R43 btw)

Regarding having to upgrading the computer hardware every 5 minutes to run the latest software, then I suggest you follow my tip, as if you do you will then find out how ridicules your statement is.

Changing the core part of the instrument (Motherboard etc.) every 5 years or so (A typical time frame for open instruments and computer users) is a hell of a lot cheaper than changing the whole instrument.

BTW I base my observations on facts (Been working with computers of all types for over 30 years) and if you did the same, I would not need to keep correcting the false information you keep posting.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#312925 - 01/18/11 03:53 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: abacus]
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Originally Posted By: abacus
I would not need to keep correcting the false information you keep posting.
Bill


Learn to discuss issues without being so confrontational or I will edit or delete your postings or user account accordingly !!!!!!!!

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#312937 - 01/18/11 07:46 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Nigel]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: Nigel
Originally Posted By: abacus
I would not need to keep correcting the false information you keep posting.
Bill


Learn to discuss issues without being so confrontational or I will edit or delete your postings or user account accordingly !!!!!!!!


No problems Nigel, I will adjust my future posts accordingly

Regards

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#312958 - 01/18/11 11:57 AM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
As I tip toe through the tulips not wanting to step on any toes as I meekly convey my subdued thoughts so as not to garner any flak from Nigel... laugh lol

BTW, I agree we shouldn't get too argumentative or resort to ad hominem attacks but if we squeeze every drop of subjective narrative out of our opinionated debate(s) from this otherwise excellent discussion forum then what's next? Perhaps a preponderance of trepidation with someone looking over your shoulder fearing the next word you write could be your very last here on the Synth Zone? frown

Agreed, ad hominem and downright obnoxious behavior should be dealt with accordingly and swiftly and I appreciate Nigel's diligence to run a tidy ship. What I'm concerned about is the "life" being squeezed out of the debate and discussions altogether. If constraints are such that openness and freedom to discuss topics are instead replaced with gestapo like subordination and compliance to a very strict and narrow set of rules the result will tend to be a lack of diversity and opinionated conveyance within the discussions that make for a more casual, friendly, and in most cases, fun experience. I don't mind members telling me their gut feelings or reacting negatively to something I may have done or said even if I may have done so unintentionally. I also don't mind people dissing a keyboard manufacturer's products (or my keyboard, etc.) because in doing so perhaps the manufacturers will wise up and start producing keyboards that consumers really want. Besides, I'm a man, I can take it. Constructive anger can actually be beneficial as we all know too. For example, Fran strongly touts Roland products and has many negative and opinionated views regarding Yamaha arrangers. As a result, I sold my Tyros and bought a Roland workstation and also a Roland module. smile See how beneficial Fran's negativity turned something into a positive for me? laugh lol

The objective for Nigel would be in trying to weed out the bad from the good i.e. the defamatory and hostile anger from the otherwise constructive debate(s). But if Synth Zone removes all the "emotion" and the "passion" from an otherwise great arranger keyboard resource website then blandness will eventually set in (not by choice obviously) and will have replaced the "liveliness" and the casual atmosphere we've all come to know and enjoy here at the Synth Zone arranger forum.

In conclusion, don't be too heavy handed or the only one's left on Synth Zone will be the drones humming along at a constantly sustained transcendental pitch with all the variances of life sucked out of them as they obediently comply with their heavy handed master looking over their shoulder(s) instilling "fear" in their otherwise 'human' heart(s). wink

I would like to thank Nigel once again for his constant dedication and hard work in providing this unique and wonderful Forum. And for each and every member on Synth Zone whose diversity of input has in many ways contributed immensely to the furtherance of knowledge along with informative discussion(s) regarding arranger keyboards and other keyboard related products that we love so much, thank you as well. And I would especially like to thank Fran whose constant 'thorn in the side' to Yamaha has in many ways roused us (and me) out of our (and my) complacency and has opened up to us other possibilities for consideration from other manufacturers - and Roland in particular. wink

And if all of you guys and gals never hear from me again - you'll know why. laugh LOL

All the best,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#312965 - 01/18/11 12:25 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Bill, you might be able to run the OS on those older CPU's powering those older Wersi's, but have you honestly tried to run any of the new power hungry VSTi's on those older CPU's?

Every generation of new chips engenders a new generation of VSTis that leverage that power. Without upping your CPU on a fairly regular (3 years or so) basis, you find a large amount of the latest, greatest VSTi's unable to run on your so-called 'future-proofed' arranger.

From doing this on regular computers for 15 years or more, I feel I am in a fair position to comment on this. My slightly aging tower can get pulled to its knees by some of the most modern VST's, and slower throughput architecture can make some of the latest, high bandwidth streaming libraries tough to make work on older MOBO's. If all you throw at it is B4 and a few lightweight VSTi's, then perhaps it is easy to think that you ARE future-proofed. But start to stack up Arturia synth models and things like that, and things get a lot more difficult.

For example, I can name few studio producers that run VSTi suites that don't change out their entire computer every two or three years or so, JUST to be able to run the latest, greatest without bringing the old one to its knees. Some carry on without the change, but they have to give up on many modern VSTi's, or accept VERY low polyphony counts and drop-outs.

If you aren't banging into a hardware ceiling, you just aren't pushing that thing hard enough!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#312976 - 01/18/11 02:12 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Diki]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki
From a studio standpoint I understand where you are coming from, however it’s rare for keyboard players to go for the latest and greatest (VSTI or Hardware) until they are sure all the bugs have been removed, consequently when they do upgrade the hardware has caught up with the VSTi they wish to use. (Live Play and Studio use are 2 different kettles of fish)

In addition VSTi manufactures as well as making them more powerful, are also making them more efficient so that anybody can use them without having upgrade to the latest and greatest computer. (If the user doesn’t have to buy a new computer, he will probably buy the new VSTi instead, thus making the manufacture more profit)

As an example, Pianoteq uses sound modelling which theoretically should really task the CPU, (Early versions did) but I have used the latest version on a 3 GHZ P4 with 2 GB Ram with a combination of styles, sequences and manuals simultaneously, (As well as adding in OAS and Kontakt 4 sounds to the mix) with no problems at all.

If you also look at the optimum computer specification requirements of the VSTi you mention, you will find it is way below what the latest and greatest computer systems use. (If you want the best performance go for a gaming machine (Although you can cut back on the graphics card) and then set it up for music)

As you can see from the above, while you could run into problems in the studio (Hence a lot of the big studios network there computers to spread the load) it’s unlikely in live play. (Would you go to a gig if you hadn’t fully tested it would work without problems)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#313083 - 01/19/11 12:03 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: abacus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
We've both got good points, Bill!

I might disagree with the premise that it takes a CPU new generation before the bugs are ironed out of a major VSTi, though. Usually, most of the best ones are relatively ready to go at launch, and seldom do you have to wait more than a few months to get a smoothly running patch. They simply wouldn't sell if that were the case!

It is a year or more (often much more!) before major CPU architecture changes. If you had to wait that long, no-one would buy the initial release! Just out of curiosity, how often have you upgraded your CPU and MOBO on your Wersi? And how long have you have the Wersi?

Studio actually stresses the computer a bit LESS than live, because you always have the option to render and turn off one VSTi if it chokes your CPU. No such luck with live!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#313265 - 01/20/11 03:25 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Diki]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
here is a demo of the PA3X with the output plugged into the camera so no excuses this time http://www.youtube.com/user/KorgUSAVideos#p/u/0/xirp4expFvQ

Now tell me honestly , does it sound improved over the PA1x, or 2X ? The same styles in the demo are on my PA1X and you dont have to take my word for it but they sound almost exactly the same on my keyboard through a mixing desk.

Heres the important question . Did it make you want to spend another nearly $4000 ?????

Be honest.........

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#313266 - 01/20/11 03:32 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: spalding1968]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I can't say I really heard a radical difference between the T3 and T4, or G70 and E80, either. If it was playing an older style, virtually none. This demo, as it uses older styles, it's pretty obvious it's going to sound about the same. Only the NEW styles will leverage the new sounds and features, in general.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#313268 - 01/20/11 03:34 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: spalding1968]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: spalding1968
here is a demo of the PA3X with the output plugged into the camera so no excuses this time http://www.youtube.com/user/KorgUSAVideos#p/u/0/xirp4expFvQ

Now tell me honestly , does it sound improved over the PA1x, or 2X ? The same styles in the demo are on my PA1X and you dont have to take my word for it but they sound almost exactly the same on my keyboard through a mixing desk.

Heres the important question . Did it make you want to spend another nearly $4000 ?????

Be honest.........



I still out on this until i see a quality demo on this product in the near future...Korg can do better in the demo dept.

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#313272 - 01/20/11 04:11 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Nick G Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Donny you should know better than to be making assumptions from amateur impromptu video clips taken from home Video Cameras at a Trade Show stand??

The Korg PA 2x and PA 800 already sound top class. We all know this. The only thing that has steered a few people and yourself away is OS and keyboard functionality which is personal preference to our needs.

Obviously the PA 3X is a better sounding instrument. New drums / effects / new sounds in each category. It is just a shame that at the moment we haven't heard this thing in full flight!

There doesn't need to be a HUGE difference in sound between the PA2 and PA3 because the previous model was still up there. Its not like the previous model was crap and the new one is just a bit better.

And I Agree with a previous post that I saw before (cant remember who the poster was) but if you were not a fan of the Korg PA 800 / PA2X then I don't see how the PA 3X will blow you out of the water. But for Korg fans and people who love the Korg Sound, the PA 3X is going to be massive!

I honestly think the jump from the PA2X to the PA3X offers much more than the Jump from Tyros 3 to Tyros 4 and G70 to E80.

Until some official audio and video demos are released AND it is available in shops to try in the flesh it feels like some are flogging a dead horse.

Nick

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#313274 - 01/20/11 04:26 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Nick G]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
As we've heard very little of the new CONTENT in the PA3, I think it's a little early to be either dissing OR praising it. It's been made clear that this was just a sneak peek at a beta, no way to judge what the final sound will be. That most of the styles we heard snippets of were legacy is a HUGE indicator that Korg have quite some work to do! Doubling the ROM ought to be quite significant, but only the new piano (and that violin sample, I think) seemed to be new sounds. Mind you, ONE decent grand piano could chew up most of that ROM increase if they weren't careful!

The thing that will make or break the PA3 is going to be whether Korg get parity with Yamaha with the DNC sounds. They have the technology. Did they come up with the samples to leverage it, finally?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#313275 - 01/20/11 04:36 PM Re: NEW KORG PAx3 VIDEO DEMOS Here [Re: Dnj]
Nick G Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1107
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Diki, so far we have heard alot more than just a Piano and a Violin voice. I think there might be a video or two that you may have missed wink

I have heard the new acoustic guitar and sax and they were excellent. definitely straight away a noticeable difference over the PA2. But yes as you and I have both said - still much much more to come...

Nick
_________________________
Yamaha PSR SX900 / Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Korg PA700 / Roland GW-8L / Roland Fantom O6

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