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#297324 - 10/23/10 08:58 AM Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792LJQKZ6PU&feature=related


OMG!!! blazing finger speed on "Czardus". watch it all....



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-23-2010).]

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#297325 - 10/23/10 09:21 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Sapphire Online   content
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 142
Loc: Benfleet, Essex. UK
That's not difficult, give me 20 fingers on each hand and I could do it, no problem.

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#297326 - 10/23/10 10:24 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
msutliff Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 640
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Hey Donny,

I didn't hear Czardas.....I heard Hungarian Dance #5.



I can't help but wonder if just a tincy, wincy part of the speed comes from pressing buttons instead of keys. I don't know, I've never tried a button accordion. And I ain't tryin' to take anything away from this guy's ability. He's fast!

-mike

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#297327 - 10/23/10 11:53 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi. I've recently toyed with the idea of possibly taking up the accordion. Which 'mid priced' brand/model accord is recommended for a beginner for eventually gigging with. Realizing that button keys are most popular in Europe, and that the button style key accordions lighter & smaller (aka more conveniently portable) than the piano type keyboard accordions, from the starting point if beubg of a piano/keyboard player ,is learning to play a button type accordion much more difficult to learn than a piano keyboard style accordion? In addition, any accordion music instruction books/videos to recommend, or am I wasting my time attempting to take up this instrument as an adult? Curious how difficult & how long it would be to learn to play it well enough to gig with. - Scott
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#297328 - 10/23/10 01:09 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
JCkeeys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 584
Loc: St. James,New York,USA
Scott .... I started playing the Accordion at 9 yrs old, that was 50 yrs ago! Have not played one in 20 yrs. I would think your challenge would be the left hand. You need to learn the scales and fingering and your all set!! Of course the "Bellows" .. that's where the "Feel" comes from. Go for it!!

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#297329 - 10/23/10 01:20 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Scottyee:
Hi. I've recently toyed with the idea of possibly taking up the accordion. Which 'mid priced' brand/model accord is recommended for a beginner for eventually gigging with. Realizing that button keys are most popular in Europe, and that the button style key accordions lighter & smaller (aka more conveniently portable) than the piano type keyboard accordions, from the starting point if beubg of a piano/keyboard player ,is learning to play a button type accordion much more difficult to learn than a piano keyboard style accordion? In addition, any accordion music instruction books/videos to recommend, or am I wasting my time attempting to take up this instrument as an adult? Curious how difficult & how long it would be to learn to play it well enough to gig with. - Scott


Hi Scott, first off, NEVER too late for anything !!!!

Two things, as JCKeeys said learning the left hand can be "different as the patterns need to be learned for scales, BUT to learn basic chording, or the "oompah" is pretty easy. Your fingers soon learn where the roots and chord buttons are

The fingering and chordal structures for the right hand are the same as any keyboard so NO issues there, but I say that with some caveats.

1. If you need to be constantly looking at the keys when you are playing you will find this difficult with the accordion.

2.The size of the keys are somewhat smaller than your average keyboard, even the PSR series.

3. Bellows technique is not particularly difficult to learn, but can take some time to master.

If you want to perform, and you do not want to control other keyboards/arrangers from it, then any model (I usually recommend Italian, then German) with an audio pickup is fine.

If you need to be able to control your arrangers, then you simply cannot go past the excellent Roland accordions. Expensive, yes, but worth every penny.

As a minimum I would recommend 120 bass (my accordion was 140), but as these are pretty expensive, particularly Roland, an 80 bas would get you by for probably most of the stuff you would do, especially if using an arranger as well.

Hope that brief info helps some,

Cheers
Dennis

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#297330 - 10/23/10 03:13 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
JC & Dennis: thanks for the valuable input you gave. Sounds like, coming from being a trad keyboard player that the best RH accord type option for me is 'keyboard style' vs 'buttons' giving better opportunity on focus on learing the button (chord progression changes) by touch, namely the most common: IV-V7-I, and II-V7-I in the most common keys, and hitting the associated bass notes by touch, no peeking.

The reason I'm exploring the prospect of an accordion is because it's the only 'keyboard type' instrument I know of that doesn't require electrical power, and supports accomp and playing RH lead melody & fills while singing, as it appears to be the direct 'one man band' acoustic descendant of the arranger keyboard.

To afford portability, I prefer something relatively compact & lightweight. Which 'piano key style' accords brand & models meet this criteria? Thanks to all for any additional information & advice.

Scott
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#297331 - 10/23/10 03:18 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Jerry T Offline
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Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA

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#297332 - 10/23/10 03:53 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Jerry. Nice, thanks for those impressive demo vids. Interesting that both your links and the ones earlier in this thread demonstrate RH melody utilizing 'button style' keys vs 'piano style' keys. Other than the familiarity for people who come from a trad keyboard playing background, what (if any) are advantages of RH: 'buttons' vs 'piano keys'?

In the meantime, I found this YouTube instructional " How To Play Accordion " Clip Series. Synthzone Accordion experts (Fran, DNJ, Musicman22, JC,miden, etc) : do you guys recommend this (or other) instructional video for an accordion wannabe beginner like myself?
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#297333 - 10/23/10 05:30 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Jerry T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
The vids show accordions with the Free-Bass system as opposed to the most common Stradella Bass system. Here are a couple of examples of the same piece using the Free-Bass system. The first vid is Uwe (Oove) Steger, the same guy in the other vids. The second is my friend Joe Natoli using a harpsichord sound rather than traditional accordion sound on a piano keyboard accordion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKxI_mOHoQw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v19edtyl8lo&feature=related

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#297334 - 10/23/10 06:30 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#297335 - 10/24/10 11:11 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Jerry: wow, your friend' Joe's one awesome accordionist. I love the sound he gets out of his instr and admire his skill and musical expressionism. Checked the price of his Roland and quickly realize it's way over my curent budget, so will consider Rolands beginner budget priced accordion (you think its decent enough?) instead, or stick to my original plan of eventually upgrading to a Yamaha T4, Korg PA3x Pro, or successor to the Pa800. Scott.
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#297336 - 10/24/10 11:12 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Jerry: wow, your friend' Joe's one awesome accordionist. I love the sound he gets out of his instr and admire his skill and musical expressionism. Checked the price of his Roland and quickly realize it's way over my curent budget, so will consider Rolands beginner budget priced accordion (you think its decent enough?) instead, or stick to my original plan of eventually upgrading to a Yamaha T4, Korg PA3x Pro, or successor to the Pa800. Scott.
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#297337 - 10/24/10 11:24 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Scottyee:
Jerry: wow, your friend' Joe's one awesome accordionist. I love the sound he gets out of his instr and admire his skill and musical expressionism. Checked the price of his Roland and quickly realize it's way over my curent budget, so will consider Rolands beginner budget priced accordion (you think its decent enough?) instead, or stick to my original plan of eventually upgrading to a Yamaha T4, Korg PA3x Pro, or successor to the Pa800. Scott.



common Scott you know your getting a Tyros4

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#297338 - 10/25/10 10:06 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Check out Tony Lovello. He's all over YouTube. He was a member of the Three Suns and was general manager of the Campbell House in Lexington for over 20 years. I played there for years, and Tony would arrange and participate in floor shows on holidays.

He's still around Lexington, still playing, approaching 80 years old. He's pretty well known as a top guy on his instrument.


R.

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#297339 - 10/25/10 10:19 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by captain Russ:
Check out Tony Lovello. He's all over YouTube. He was a member of the Three Suns and was general manager of the Campbell House in Lexington for over 20 years. I played there for years, and Tony would arrange and participate in floor shows on holidays.

He's still around Lexington, still playing, approaching 80 years old. He's pretty well known as a top guy on his instrument.
R.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHWHWfBcxQE&feature=related

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#297340 - 10/25/10 12:14 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
As a piano accordionist, I definitely see some advantages to playing the button style. One being, it's isomorphic. Learn to play in one key, and you know how to play in all keys. So suddenly you can start working a lot more on speed and other types of riffs rather than trying to work out how everything is going to lay in the different shapes using a piano accordion. Also, you get more range using a button accordion. The buttons are smaller, and though there are some repeats, you still get probably an octave's worth more of range in the right hand. Also, with the increased range, you can make wider spaced harmonies, because the notes are closer together, so reaching an octave and a half to 2 octaves isn't nearly as impossible as it is on a standard sized piano accordion.
All that being said, I'm sticking with piano accordion as that's what I learned on and have played for 20 years.

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#297341 - 10/25/10 12:22 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
You can never do what Ludvic Beier is doing in this video with a regular key accordion.....lightning fast !! Amazing!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792LJQKZ6PU&feature=related

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#297342 - 10/25/10 01:24 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by FAEbGBD:
As a piano accordionist, I definitely see some advantages to playing the button style. One being, it's isomorphic. Learn to play in one key, and you know how to play in all keys. So suddenly you can start working a lot more on speed and other types of riffs rather than trying to work out how everything is going to lay in the different shapes using a piano accordion. Also, you get more range using a button accordion. The buttons are smaller, and though there are some repeats, you still get probably an octave's worth more of range in the right hand. Also, with the increased range, you can make wider spaced harmonies, because the notes are closer together, so reaching an octave and a half to 2 octaves isn't nearly as impossible as it is on a standard sized piano accordion.
All that being said, I'm sticking with piano accordion as that's what I learned on and have played for 20 years.


Rorie: Many Thanks for your well outlined explanation of the benefits of buttons vs piano keys because coming a background of piano (not accordions) I would not have known about these obviously important advantages. The question now would be how long would it take (days/weeks/month/years) to master Rh button playing vs already proficient piano style key play. Has Anybody here made that transition?

Scott
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#297343 - 10/25/10 01:39 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Scott 5 to 10 years to be proficient

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#297344 - 10/25/10 06:55 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Donny,
I didn't know there were ANY accordion fans. Do you remember the Gary Larson Far Side cartoon about accordions?

Tom
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Thanks,

Tom

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#297345 - 10/25/10 07:18 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cavanaugh:
Donny,
I didn't know there were ANY accordion fans. Do you remember the Gary Larson Far Side cartoon about accordions?

Tom


You mean this one...

_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#297346 - 10/25/10 08:18 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Scott.....don't pay attention to Donny's 5-10 years remark. There IS no set time frame for learning to play any instrument. But I must say, I've been told the accordion is the hardest of them all to pick up. My guess is the buttons on the left...you can't see them. So you're doing 3 things at once playing right hand keyboard, left hand bass, and working the bellows at the same time. A lot of the difficulty is in coordination.

I've been playing accordion since I was a child. It's 2nd nature to me now. What FAEbGBD said about the button accordion is 100% correct. If I had to do it all over again, I'd consider taking up the button rather than the piano keyboard. But only because I enjoy playing French musette music and that type calls for speed, speed, and more speed.

If you're only interested in strolling and portability, get yourself a standard piano keyboard. You already know music so it's only a matter of you practicing it regularly until it "takes."

As for the transition (piano to accordion) I can only say how I handled the change from accordion to piano (and synth). It took me close to a year before a "level" keyboard in front of me looked "natural." I was so used to looking at it from "bottom" to "top." Also, I had to re-learn to play the left hand. Then again, I think I'm a slow learner.

I've been playing more accordion lately than I normally do for the same reasons you mentioned you want to learn it. I can walk around...I'm not limited to a bandstand. I spent October doing Oktoberfests where you move around a lot. Last week at a restaurant Oktoberfest, I earned $110 just in tips for two nights from "strolling." In nursing homes I can go from room to room. On bus tours, I can walk the aisles. Also, "special events" agents are always looking for something different than your standard one-man-band. The accordion seems to be re-inventing itself. Great for me....no set-up time!

If you learn to play this instrument, consider that you'll have the field pretty much to yourself. Hardly anyone takes it up anymore, and those that do, play it as a novelty in a rock band.

Lucky

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#297347 - 10/25/10 08:40 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
You right lucky I should of said
5-15 years

btw Ive been playing accordion since I was 6 Years old

carry on

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#297348 - 10/26/10 05:52 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
You can never do what Ludvic Beier is doing in this video with a regular key accordion.....lightning fast !! Amazing!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792LJQKZ6PU&feature=related


Donny ... having played in numerous accordion competitions on the East Coast as a teen, and having heard kids from all over the world play the most difficult classical pieces on a piano accordion, I would say "Never say NEVER" !!!
t.
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t. cool

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#297349 - 10/26/10 10:18 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Thanks Ian, I did mean that one. If I hear "Lady of Spain" one more time in the remainder of my life, it will be too soon.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom Cavanaugh (edited 10-26-2010).]
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Thanks,

Tom

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#297350 - 10/26/10 11:55 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Me, too, Tom. But, I must admit, I bought a little accordion as a show sample at a Summer NAMM a few years ago.


Russ (Always liked those "squeezeboxes (LOL)Lay

(Not what you think...the line from the song, damnit...you know" mamma's got a squeezebox...")


[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 10-26-2010).]

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#297351 - 10/27/10 09:10 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
You right lucky I should of said
5-15 years



Scott....don't pay any attention to this. Donny is apparently a slower learner than I am even.

You don't need to be a virtuoso. You could probably be playing in under a year. Just do a lot of daily practice and use those "mind" techniques.

Otherwise, use the "shortcut" method. Don't play the left hand!

Lucky

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#297352 - 11/04/10 11:25 AM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
moldmaker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 110
Loc: Illinois
Hey Scott,
Check out this guy. A new way of playing accordion. Pretty cool.
Wally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XOcnTluaec

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#297353 - 11/04/10 01:30 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I started taking lessons on accordion at age 12 years 8 months...I excelled quickly, and within 3 years was as good as most accordion players..I continued lessons for another 3 years..total 6 years...Including my theory studies and jazz arranging..
I graduated high school at the age of 17 and then went to college..and studied music another couple years..

My point ..if you are not an accomplished player within 3 years of study..you did not apply yourself and/or you need better teachers...
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#297354 - 11/04/10 01:34 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA


[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 11-04-2010).]
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#297355 - 11/04/10 04:10 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by moldmaker:
Hey Scott,
Check out this guy. A new way of playing accordion. Pretty cool.
Wally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XOcnTluaec


Wally. Thanks for the interesting link. Kind of cool. I assume cause the bellows isn't utilized that the guys playing his button style Accord as a digital instrument. - Scott
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#297356 - 11/04/10 04:22 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
kinda takes the fun out playing accordion !

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#297357 - 11/05/10 12:39 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Jerry T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
... and this is what could happen if you hold your accordion upside down while playing a midi sequence ... oh yeah - and sing well out of your vocal range ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpE5r5bry6w

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#297358 - 11/05/10 01:44 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry T:
... and this is what could happen if you hold your accordion upside down while playing a midi sequence ... oh yeah - and sing well out of your vocal range ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpE5r5bry6w


I hate that when it happens..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#297359 - 11/05/10 01:58 PM Re: Accordion Fans it don't get any better then this...!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry T:
... and this is what could happen if you hold your accordion upside down while playing a midi sequence ... oh yeah - and sing well out of your vocal range ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpE5r5bry6w


... those French ... a bit TOO passionate, perhaps ?!?!?
What ever happened to "Excuse me, could you keep the volume down???"
t.
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t. cool

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