i'll pose this question, but i expect the answer will have to come from AJ,...
in the GM window, when i want to filter midi RX (page 7, in 16 parts mode), i filter all 16 midi channels from receiving, however when i go back out and then re-enter the GM page EVERYTHING is filtered out on every page, both TX and RX.. note on note off, effects, volumes etc etc when all i want is to filter RX ONLY as i am using an external module to reproduce midi files using the sd as the "player", and i dont want the file reproduced on the sd1+ as well....what happens if you dont filter the RX is it still affects the overall polyphony and you get note dropouts when playing keyboard parts live(just using the balance button combo to mute does not stop the midifile using sd1 notes, just the volume).........AJ can you explain if this is a software bug (pretty major one too imo) or simply a shortcoming of the SD1+?
thanks
dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 10-01-2007).]

yep, its about the sort of reply i have come to expect from AJ...he is happy to post heaps when he wants to sell something, but a bit of help with one of the worst operating systems going on a keyboard, and he is nowhere to be found...okay for you people in the states who can phone...there is no tech support at all in australia, the dealer, nice as he is, does not have much technical knowledge, and even he cannot get answers from ketron, i know, because we have already tried on several issues!!!!

.....So perhaps the rumours ARE true Ketron might be going "belly-up", no response at all from ketron italy, on more than this problem, all we get from the "ketron tech guru" is him selling off other brands of keyboards all the time, makes you wonder!!!

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 10-02-2007).]

Hi Dennis,
mine doesn't do that. I'm still on the old 4b operating system. Haven't updated mine to 4c yet.

I haven't tried it yet with a module connected.

Hope I understood correctly.
On the GM page I set all the midi RX to off.

When I played the internal midifiles I received no sound. I then turned a couple of channels back on , ie drum & bass & they played.

I can try hooking up my sd2 module later today & see what happens ie if it plays the midifile.


My TX settings were not affected, they stayed as they should have been.


best wishes
Rikki

hi rikki,
did you go out of the midi pages and then go back in? because when i filter all midi RX, all pages (within the RX ones) notes everything get muted, perhaps its a 4.c thing??? i mean, midi works fine both in and out, but i just want to filter the out for a particular setup...but look it doesn't really matter i can mute the sd midi by just pressing the balance buttons so its a pretty easy workaround........BTW ,i might add that AJ has actually visited this forum to post about a new product, but gives no reply....i rest my case!!!!
but thanks for your input rikki, appreciate it..
cheers,
dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 10-04-2007).]

Hi Dennis,
midied up my sd2 module to the sd1+.

When I set all the channels to "RX off" on the SD1+, I get no midi output to the SD2.

Setting to RX off doesn't respond the same way as a setting like Local off. If it functioned as Local off, you'd hear the midifile via your module & you wouldn't hear the sd1 sounds on those channels.

I thought another option might be to mute the channels on the GM page. Works ok for the first song, but then the program changes etc don't function for the rest.

As far as I can tell , the sd1 makes for a poor controller keyboard. Hopefully I'm wrong.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rikkisbears:
[B]

hi rikki,
yeah i think i have to agree...setting local off only applies to the right hand section on the sd and doesn't seem to affect other sections like the midi playing/receiving of others.....i still believe its a programming bug, because if you set a channel off(mute) in say just the RX page, this should NOT affect the TX settings, and vice-versa....
cheers
dennis

Hi Dennis,
must admit I don't really play midifiles much on the sd, & when I do, I use the onboard sounds.
I mainly use it for playing styles.

I normally have the sd2 module midied to my Clavinova /OMB or midied to the psr1500.

I'd originally been hoping to use the SD2 to increase the polyphony of the sd1 ie assign some of the style parts to be played by the sd2 & some to be played internally, can't remember what settings I used but I didn't have much luck.
Either the operating system isn't designed for it, or else maybe it has got bugs.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]hi rikki,

hey rikki,
yeah i reckon the sd1+ is great as a standalone arranger/midifile player, but as a controller it leaves a bit to be desired..(unless you are an accordion player!!!)
cheers'dennis

Hi Dennis,
which operating system are you using???

I just updated mine from 4.0b to 4.0c.

Some of the initial problems I was having in regards to midi , now seems to be working better.
Maybe mine had some flaws to begin with.

I'll play around with it this afternoon & let you know how I go.

best wishes
Rikki

hi rikki,
sorry i have not replied to now, but i have been away for the week....i am using 4.c also..
cheers
dennis

Hi Dennis,
4c did fix up a couple of my 4b problems but I got excited a bit too soon.
best wishes
Rikki

hey rikki,
i think i have found another one now!!!when you get a chance could you go to midi (f6) then utility, and then select local as off, and tell me if your keyboard still sounds the local sound generator? it doesn't on mine..doesn't matter if local on is on or off, the sd still sounds the sd 1 sounds (i have NO midi cable connected at the in at all, just out to the yamaha module) this board came with 4.0c installed so i might try installing 4.0b and see what happens...
thanks
dennis

i have since found that the non-functioning of the local on tab only occurs when you make all channels '--' in the midi TX page, if they are all set to on (ie channels 1 thru 16) the local on/off works...HUH!!!!!

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 10-12-2007).]

Hi Dennis ,
I managed to mute the internal sounds using Audio Assignments instead of midi. ( 4.0c)
The Midi GM page we were trying to alter is just set to default.

I normally only use L& R into my Stereo System. I don't use Output 3& 4 so maybe might'nt work for you???
I've basically directed the sd's gm audio to 3 &4 , something that is non existent in my stereo system.

But to make sure the sd styles play ok, you'd need to follow the below settings.

Utility Page 2 GM Assignment
Setting L&R 3&4
Change all the L&R's to either 3 or 4


Utility Page keyboard Assignment
Setting L&R 3&4
Change all the 3&4's to L&R.

If you're also trying to play along using sd sounds for melody voices & Yamaha sounds for the midifiles, we'll have to change the midi transmit setting on one of the channels. You wouldn't want the module playing what you're playing on the keyboard??

What free channel have you got that your midifiles don't use??

best wishes
Rikki

P.s. Just realized it's more of a polyphony issue for you. The above may not help. Are you having melody notes drop out on your sd1??




[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 10-13-2007).]

hi rikki,
here is the setup: motif es rack as the sound generator for both the midi and my live playing (sounds way better than the SD imo)..so i am really just using the sd as a controller..when i play styles i use just the sd (if i had the time to properly setup the styles with Yamaha patches i would use it for them too!!!)...the problem is that all other keyboards i have played, they simply transmit the midi data that is within the midifile and add nothing else..the SD does...i have narrowed it down to something to do with the harmoniser...when you set controller 16-0 to force a track to drive the harmoniser (in my case, channel 15) it also glitches out channel 16 which is the channel i am using to play live keyboard thru the motif, BUT none of the other channels seem to be affected. channel 16 on the motif is then locked to some ghastly muted piano sound (i suspect it is losing a couple of samples within the voice) that cannot be changed by any further program changes unless the motif is reset....midi files without the 16-0 controller message play fine....btw when you remove all the channels in the midi (F6) tx options page, local off still does not work, it only works when you have channels 13 thru 16 activated...really weird stuff....as i said previously this is the strangest midi implementation i have encountered and i have been working with midi since the JX3P....i just needed to confirm if these things are happening on any other SD's or if it just mine..
cheers
dennis

PS, just wanted to add that i could solve all problems by just taking the laptop to gigs, but i want to use the HDD+sequencer capability of the SD its one of the reasons i bought it.If i am taking a computer i might just as well use a true controller boardlike the 76 note studiologic or similar...

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 10-13-2007).]

Hi Dennis,
unfortunately harmonizer is something I've never used or tried.
Just out of interest. Your midifile is obviously choosing the patches for the backing, how are you choosing the patches for the melody part, same way as for the midifile or are you pressing buttons on the module??

Have you tried filtering out "sys ex " messages in the SD's midi 6 options, or do your midifiles need them.

Have you tried creating your own midi transmit setup ( midi 6). I've had weird things happen on some of the existing setups.

Not sure if I understood, my local off definately now works, had problems with it in 4b.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

hey rikki, the patch is selected from within the midi file playing the motif rack (pretty much a standard controller board setup, except the data is being issued form the midi files i have set up....as for sysex, the yamaha is brilliant as everything pretty much is run via controller messages so it makes it easy to program...i am using my own midi config, and yes the sysex has been disabled, it was one of the first things i did when setting it up,not that it really matters as the only sysex file that affects all keyboards is the GM reset (GS, XG for example, whilst similar only work for roland and yamaha boards respectively, as you would already know) so its really a misnomer as its not exclusive to a particular board, all others are keyboard specific ......as i said i am now certain its something to do with the selection of a track for driving the harmoniser...there is something the sd does, which is not documented anywhere BUT, i will figure it out!!!
cheers
dennis

Hi Dennis,
good luck.
Did you just get the SD1 Manual & SD1+ supplement book with your SD1+??

I actually downloaded from either the Ketron Site in Italy or Jays site in the USA ( not sure which) a PDF called Ketron SD1 tables.

It's got info that I didn't get with mine. Whether or not it applies to the sd1+ , I don't know, but it has a heap of sys ex stuff etc that wasn't in my manual.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

yeah rikki, got the tables books, for both..
thanks for the encouragement, i won't give up...well this week anyway
cheers
dennis

hi rikki,
well problem solved with a workaround...as i mentioned earlier the motif runs mostly on controller messages, and its the simplest answers that are the hardest to get to!!! all i did was open my editor program for the motif and block controller messages to the harmoniser channel, and eureka everything works as it should...going on the specs, it looks like the default assignment for the motif es is for controller 16 to affect sample amplitude, so what was happening with a value of 0, was the turning off the main waveform for the sound which left that hollow dull sounding second sample as the only one audible, this seems to be a universal control, but i am awaiting confirmation from the yammie gurus to confirm...but it now all works, so i won't have to diss the sd after all which is god coz it would have got less than 1500 out here....thanks for all your efforts on this one rikki, its appreciated..
all the best
dennis

PS i still reckon the midi implementation on the sd sux, for higher than GM levels anyway, and it would be nice for ketron to fix up the filter pages, but hey its happening now, so let sleeping dogs lie....

miden,

I have tried this on my SD1 Plus and do not get the same results as you.

1. Did you check for your MIDI local settings
2. When you changed the Midi RX settings, did you SAVE them so they do NOT revert to the factory when you return.
3. What are you using to "Drive" the SD1? Any program changes coming out of that unit?

Thanks,

AJ

Hi Dennis,
how fantastic.
So pleased to hear you got your setup , up & running.
Just goes to show, where there's a will, there's a way.

I must admit it's rather scary the resale value of the Ketrons over here. I don't think they're well known enough in Aust.
I did buy mine with longterm intentions in mind until I read about the Audya. I was drooling. Unfortunately that ain't gonna happen for me. If that's all you could get for a machine that's nearly new, mines 2 years old , I'd get peanuts.

Looks like my SD1+ is here to stay. ( along with my PA800 & PSR1500) Keyboard for every room again. haahaa


best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

hi aj, thanks for the reply...
i think i have figured out that controller 16 is also recognised by the motif rack, by way of controlling one of the software switches which in default mode is connected to the voice element section (there are 4 elements to each voice o the motif, as you would probably know)..

so to solve this... (and i have to admit, it was an issue, not problem, with the motif NOT the sd1+...after all both units were doing waht they were programmed to)...

all i did was turn off the software switch in the motif for controller 16, and all is good.

The F6 midi button functions I did save to the power-on setup, and that works fine...

However, the problem I am still having (and I tried it again whilst writing this) is the F1 GM fields..

It still mutes everything(including TX)when I mute out the RX on channels 1-14 and 16..to clarify I will outline the steps i take when doing this:

(1) press F1---(2) press F10 16parts----

(3) press page button to page 7/7--- (4) mute RX on channels 1-14+16 ---- (5) press exit to go back to main page...

Then when i re-enter the F1 Gm screens, press the 16 parts button, every page shows up all cahnnels muted (not 15), now this would be fine, as I would assume it just affected the RX on these pages, BUT if you scroll to page 6 Gm Part TX, they are all muted as well???

So that is the problem I need to sort out..PLUS,

and sorry about this but another one!!

When i set up my own effects (F2) they save okay so that when I start the SD they are recalled, but when you enter the PLAY mode by pressing the play button under the SONG tab, the effects default back to the THEATRE default..how can I set it so that my amended default setting also applies to song section too?
Thanks, and sorry it is such a long reply.
cheers
dennis