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#293061 - 09/14/10 08:26 PM Just felt like playing some blues
cgiles Offline
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Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Just a quick and dirty one-shot of an old Buddy Johnson tune, "Since I fell for you", that I remember from my childhood. Don't know why I suddenly thought about it and I'm not much of a blues player but.....what the hey. Korg PA1x drums, VP550 background vocals (just to help identify the song), Nord C1 organ (of course), Tyros II rhythm guitar (jazz guitar patch), Korg PA1x piano (I like my Fantom G piano better, normally, but the Korg cuts through better on something like this), Nord C1/PK7a (pedals) bass.

I didn't use any compression (since it was mainly 'noodling') so it sounds pretty lame through PC speakers (probably sounds lame anyway ). I'll probably try to find it on the net, listen to it, and re-do it tomorrow (after I see what the 'right' chords are ).
http://www.box.net/shared/aadlclvqmt

chas

Oops, almost forgot. The lousy sax imitation is the Korg PA1x. The Tyros II sax is better but I think the Korg one sounds more soulful. JMO.

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 09-14-2010).]
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#293062 - 09/14/10 09:20 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15630
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I thought the sounds and pickin' were excellent. Couldn't hear the vocals much; I guess they were just for a guideline.
Makes me want to have a drink of hard liquor!
Thanks for sharing.
DonM
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#293063 - 09/14/10 09:44 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Taike Offline
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Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: Taiwan-Laos-China
Love this kind of music! The Nord sounds fantastic! In other words, you make it sound fantastic!

Thanks, Chas!

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.
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Those that cry "freedom" often are the oppressors.

Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.

Those that are free don't have the need to mention it about every 5 minutes.

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#293064 - 09/14/10 11:35 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Nigel Offline
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Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6185
Loc: Ventura CA USA
That is a treat Chas. I just love that smokey blues style. The Nord sounds great. Your noodling is spot on.

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#293065 - 09/15/10 01:29 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
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Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Beautiful stuff Chas...great sax sound, and the Nord sounds terrific.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293066 - 09/15/10 02:32 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 4509
Loc: USA
Cool! That Nord does sound SWEET!

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#293067 - 09/15/10 03:06 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
gilbert Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 294
Loc: Oelsnitz /E Germany
Chas,
Great Sound and mix,Loved it,So relaxing and smooth,
Thanks for posting,
Gilbert.

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#293069 - 09/15/10 06:57 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I agree with DonM. Just a bit too early for Kickapoo Joy Juice here. Darned good pickin'.

Thanks,

Gary
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#293070 - 09/15/10 07:07 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Songman55 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 892
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
It's 5 o'clock somewhere.

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Songman55
Joe Ayala
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#293071 - 09/15/10 09:16 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 12980
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
chas ... thanks for another addition to the iPOD ... I love this stuff ... and the vocals are like one might hear in some smokey jazz club, when the artist is an 'instrumentalist' and not a 'vocalist' ...
I really like your playing, but you could boost the vocals without hurting the tune at all ...
Coincidentally, this is a tune I was 'working on' on a couple of months ago, but dropped it because I couldn't get the right organ sound ... guess I need a Nord ... ...
thnx agn,
t.
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#293072 - 09/15/10 10:02 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6736
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Man, that don't sound like no Kymco scooter ridin' nerd!(LOL).

That delicious, painfully slow tempo, that just sucks you right into the groove. Man, I miss that!

My preference would have been to just eliminate the guitar track and let the piano stand as the only comping instrument....OR,
try to find some old, washed up guitar playing ex hippy to play guitar on in when he FINALLY finds his way back to Atlanta (HINT, HINT).

Russ (peace out, man) Lay

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#293073 - 09/15/10 04:29 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Nice stuff, as always, chas... LOVE that Nord!

If it helps, personally, I refuse to play a lead sax sound unless I can have my LH glued to the pitch lever. Not bending and scooping, even slightly, most of the notes in a sax line is the ONE thing that gives it away as a keyboard imitation. Sadly, the PA1 doesn't have a pitch strip (like the Triton's do) which offers even MORE in the way of live control over pitch (trills, note jumping, finger vibrato, etc.), but even so, listen to any sax player... there's hardly EVER a note that is hit perfectly in tune, and doesn't GO somewhere after initially hit.

It's like singing... Ever look at the graphical readout on Auto-Tune or any other pitch correction software? The human voice is anything BUT steady in pitch, everything is a slide from one place to another, you will NEVER see a string of notes hit in tune, that STAY in tune, and jump cleanly to the next note. Same with saxes...

There's nothing intrinsically WRONG with the Korg PA sax sound. Add the inflection that a real player would add, It's basically as good as any other, including SA sounds. After all, SA really is basically automatically adding the inflection and note join ups that a good player will put in manually. We have all heard user SA sax demos that suck as much as any other sax sound on other arrangers, there's no magic bullet.

Sure, you can over-use, or incorrectly use the bender, but even worse, IMO, is not using it at ALL...

Hope this helps. Keep 'em coming, my friend!

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#293074 - 09/15/10 06:48 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Nice stuff, as always, chas... LOVE that Nord!

If it helps, personally, I refuse to play a lead sax sound unless I can have my LH glued to the pitch lever. Not bending and scooping, even slightly, most of the notes in a sax line is the ONE thing that gives it away as a keyboard imitation. Sadly, the PA1 doesn't have a pitch strip (like the Triton's do) which offers even MORE in the way of live control over pitch (trills, note jumping, finger vibrato, etc.), but even so, listen to any sax player... there's hardly EVER a note that is hit perfectly in tune, and doesn't GO somewhere after initially hit.

It's like singing... Ever look at the graphical readout on Auto-Tune or any other pitch correction software? The human voice is anything BUT steady in pitch, everything is a slide from one place to another, you will NEVER see a string of notes hit in tune, that STAY in tune, and jump cleanly to the next note. Same with saxes...

There's nothing intrinsically WRONG with the Korg PA sax sound. Add the inflection that a real player would add, It's basically as good as any other, including SA sounds. After all, SA really is basically automatically adding the inflection and note join ups that a good player will put in manually. We have all heard user SA sax demos that suck as much as any other sax sound on other arrangers, there's no magic bullet.

Sure, you can over-use, or incorrectly use the bender, but even worse, IMO, is not using it at ALL...

Hope this helps. Keep 'em coming, my friend!


Diki I know this is probably impossible....but can you provide an example of what your talking about ....I myself dont use the bend much......too busy doing other stuff when im playing.
But maybe if I can hear some examples of the Sax stylings like your describing I can get an idea of where to start learning the technic someday.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-15-2010).]

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#293075 - 09/15/10 07:40 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Diki, you've mentioned this before and you're absolutely correct. It's just that I haven't taken the time to try to improve this playing technique for imitating a sax player. I think maybe subconsiously, I feel it's more about the feeling you're trying to convey (ie. DonM's "Makes me want a drink of hard liquor") than the super-accurate sax emulation. Of course, the better the technique, the easier it is to convey your message. I'll work on it.

Donny, I think an example of what Diki is talking about is the sax demo on the Tyros 2. My problem is, I can't seem to duplicate that kind of realism. Sounds like a breath controller might have been used. I've always threatened to get one of those wind controllers (I know sax fingering......but can't play one) but just never have. I'd love to hear one midi'ed up to that Yamaha tenor sax (SA).

Thanks to everyone for the kind words, that PA1x pro is a helluva drum machine. Makes it easy to quickly throw something together.

chas
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#293076 - 09/15/10 07:59 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4187
Nice job Chas. I listened before reading your script and could have sworn it was a real B3 - that Nord is unreal.
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#293077 - 09/15/10 09:06 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Chas, the sax sound was really good, but the notes bled together in various places, and a saxophone is a monophonic instrument.

Perhaps if you switched the sound to monophonic, it would at least prevent one note sounding against another, if you know what I mean.

All the pitch bends and scooping don't mean a thing if you have two notes bleeding together, and most keyboard players overdo the bending...not all sax players play like that, and it doesn't actually make it sound realistic unless you hear the change in timbre as well as the difference in throatiness.

Yamaha's T3 SA2 Sax comes the closest so far, in my opinion, although the sax you used has a nice, almost atmospheric, sound that is very appealing

Let's be realistic; I haven't heard anyone realistically duplicate a sax on a Yamaha Roland or a Korg...the best we can strive for is the illusion of a saxophone, or an impression of a saxophonist, but it is still very easy for a real sax player to pick out the unrealistic parts.

Love the Nord sound a lot...very earthy and warm, not at all digital sounding.

Again, nice stuff, buddy.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293078 - 09/16/10 02:13 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6185
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by captain Russ:
try to find some old, washed up guitar playing ex hippy to play guitar


Russ wasn't sure sure if you were talking about yourself or me lol


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#293079 - 09/16/10 09:02 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
BEBOP Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 3770
Loc: San Jose, California
AHHH CHAS,
this is just fine. It took three days of trying before I got to hear it all the way through and it was well worth the effort.
thanks for sharing this fine talent.
Best regards,
Bebop
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#293080 - 09/16/10 10:02 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: Taiwan-Laos-China
Quote:
Originally posted by Nigel:



...all that education and still doesn't have a "real" job!

Taike

------------------
Bo pen nyang.
_________________________
Those that cry "freedom" often are the oppressors.

Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.

Those that are free don't have the need to mention it about every 5 minutes.

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#293081 - 09/17/10 02:13 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
It really doesn't take much to get into the pitch bend thing... to be honest, I find simply LISTENING to whatever you want to emulate for enough time, and you will quickly develop an ear for when you are getting it right.

Quite a while back I posted a live version of 'How Sweet It Is (to be loved by you)' at Roland-arranger.com that has a played sax solo http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=845.0 (sax solo is at about 2:00 in). It's not my BEST work (just a live take) but maybe you get the gist from it...

The trick really is to not exaggerate.... Tiny little scoops and bends go a LOT further than big dramatic ones, and learning WHERE they are best placed is most of the difficulty. Again, simply listening to sax players is the answer.

BTW, I do NOT encourage you to switch to monophonic mode. Unfortunately, other than SA sounds (and even they are tricky to get phrased right), monophonic mode quickly makes you sound more like a synth or kazoo than a sax, as you end up with only the short, looped section of the waveform playing for entire notes. Careful attention to legato technique is what makes the difference..

I have a tendency to edit any horn sounds that don't stop quite quickly on note-up (you'd be surprised at how long some of the releases are) so that my playing alone determines the note-off point. Then just practice playing a line all the way from detaché to smooth, smooth legato, and all points in between. Just be SURE to never let the end of the note overlap the beginning of the next one...

For you, chas, pretend you are playing with the short Hammond percussion ONLY (no drawbars out). You KNOW how critical that staccato/legato thing is there, as it completely determines whether the note you play sounds at all! Overlap two notes, and the second doesn't sound at all... It's about that critical on a sax sound (or any wind instrument).

Another thing to try for horn sounds is, if you are going to use aftertouch for vibrato, and your arranger can do it, program LFO SPEED as well as depth to increase with pressure, then program the LFO to be a little bit too slow at the lowest pressure setting, and just about right, or even a hair fast at highest pressure. Subtlety is the key, you only want it so you only JUST notice it, but a regular unchanging vibrato rate is once again a dead giveaway that it's a keyboard. Some can do the same trick with the modulation lever, too (I'm pretty sure all the Korg's can).

The main point is to f*ck things up a bit... sax players are ANYTHING but machine perfect , and anything you can do to throw in a bit of change into the sound goes a LONG way...

Hope this encourages some of us to give the LH chord recognition a rest (make an SMF of the accompaniment, if you like), and use your LH for something expressive...

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#293082 - 09/17/10 02:35 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Like I said ...probably Impossible..

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#293083 - 09/17/10 02:50 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Like I said ...probably Impossible..


Both would have been more realistic if they'd used SA sounds.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293084 - 09/17/10 03:11 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Impossible, Donny? You asked for an example, there it is. What is your issue with it?

Or do you simply mean impossible for you to do it?

If you use sequences and mp3's (we all know you do), I'm kind of wondering what you are doing that makes using the bender too much of an imposition... Once that chicken hat is on, you shouldn't have to HOLD it there, should you?

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#293085 - 09/17/10 03:49 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:

Quite a while back I posted a live version of 'How Sweet It Is (to be loved by you)' at Roland-arranger.com that has a played sax solo http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=845.0 (sax solo is at about 2:00 in). It's not my BEST work (just a live take) but maybe you get the gist from it...



Great job, Diki...I've heard this example before, and it's a fine example of using subtle bends and scoops.

You'd sound even better with Yamaha's SA/SA2 sounds.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293086 - 09/17/10 04:09 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Thanks Bebop. 'preciate it.

Ian - the SA sax is (IMO) undeniably the best sax sound that I have available, but like Diki, you're assuming that realism is the primary thing here....it's not. It's the 'feel' of the song that's important to me, and also what sound (which sax patch, in this case) best fits the mood of the tune. For ME, FOR THIS TUNE, it was the breathy, over-reverbed, Korg sax. Just a matter of personal preference. Same with guitar. I prefer the 'jazz guitar' patch from the Tyros II for comping AND soloing. I'm kind of lazy, so once I find something I like, I tend to stay there.

Diki, the techniques you outlined sound great, and I will practice and try to phase them into my playing technique when soloing a sax patch. I think the harder problem is trying to THINK like a sax player. Then, I think the phrasing, etc. would come more natural. Truth is, when I solo, I'm usually thinking more like a SINGER. I guess, down in my heart, I don't really think a keyboard emulation of another instrument is going to fool anybody, so you may as well just go ahead and play your licks. DonM comes as close as anybody with his 'guitar' licks, and I'm sure it's due in large part, to the fact that he also plays guitar.

Using a drum machine, or the drum section of an arranger keyboard in my case, gives you a pretty static, semi-mechanical, background to work with, so you need to use the other instruments to supply the feel and dynamics normally supplied by the drummer........in other words, draw attention away from the fact that a machine is supplying that dead-on (and therefore unnatural) rhythm. Mostly, I just like to sit down and play. I guess I'm more invested in the song than the production, although I realize that both are important. If you listen to Ben Webster, Stan Getz, Lester Young, Grover Washington, Kenny G, King Curtis (remember him?), Charley Parker, you will soon realize that there is no 'classic' sax sound or style of playing. Uniqueness is the key, 'soul' is what is important (whatever the genre'). So I WILL be trying out those techniques and I WILL be trying to figure out how to utilize that great SA sax, but in the meantime.......... I'm happy with someone listening to it and 'wanting a drink of hard liquor', 'cause that's the way you're supposed to feel when 'yo' baby done left you' .


chas
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#293087 - 09/17/10 04:14 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I've messed around quite a bit with the SA sax voices in the MoXS... to be honest, I'm not that convinced. Making them monophonic kind of limits your options (sometimes you WANT to go divisi), and, try as I might, I couldn't get even close to the famous SA sax demo. That thing was sequenced and massaged to hell and back, not live play in the slightest, and I've heard little from any live demo that elevated it far beyond what I can do with normal triggering technology.

It certainly helps those that have no decent sax chops at all (Yamaha's target market, for sure!), but it wasn't the eye-opener I had hoped it would be.

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#293088 - 09/17/10 04:32 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Chas, the bar for 'thinking' like a GREAT sax player is so high, I don't even try! They are the gods of music, IMO, for all I would LIKE it to be piano players!

But, when a sax player plays the blues, he's going to scoop, he's going to bend, he's going to moan! And NOBODY ever moaned at a constant pitch!

You can't even play a blues scale correctly on a keyboard without using a pitch bend lever... You can SING one, but an equal tempered keyboard can't play it. The thirds, the sevenths, they aren't Western... They are flattened a bit (or a lot!) and that's what makes it the blues. The flattened passing notes, the scooped notes... all define the blues.

We all know and cringe whenever we hear someone with a classic background TRYING to play the blues or jazz. And playing a sax sound on straight notes, no bend lever has exactly the same effect. For me, it's fingernails on a chalkboard! If I can't use the bend lever (say I'm comping with the LH) I NEVER play a sax lead. Better to miss it altogether than screw it up, IMO. It's not about FOOLING anyone that they are hearing a sax. Only a fool would be fooled! But, without that pitch indeterminacy, it's not a soulful sound, IMO. I'd rather use something that is SUPPOSED to be pitch stable (vibes, for instance) than a one hand sax, any day...

BTW, I'm coming up to Atlanta end of this month for Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta. Hopefully, we can meet and get to see one another while I'm in the neighborhood!

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#293089 - 09/17/10 04:33 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:

It certainly helps those that have no decent sax chops at all (Yamaha's target market, for sure!), but it wasn't the eye-opener I had hoped it would be.


Yes, and it really benefits those that have decent sax chops...you need more time to explore SA and SA2, especially the latter, and especially on a Tyros3 or T4...the Mo XS is pretty good, but not a patch on the Tyros sound.

Yamaha's SA/SA2 voices would make a good player like yourself, sound even better.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293090 - 09/17/10 04:51 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
The price for a marginal improvement in solo sax sound is too high for me, Ian... gain a better sax, lose the ability to play piano parts well. For all my love of emulating the horn, I am still a pianist (or at least keyboard player) first and foremost. If I can't play a real piano part on it, I can't use it on a gig, plain and simple.

Anyway, I don't trust any company that thinks the better the pianist, the worse the arranger they play on should be..! I prefer to use instruments by a company that doesn't PENALIZE you for liking the piano

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#293091 - 09/17/10 05:00 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
The thirds, the sevenths, they aren't Western... They are flattened a bit (or a lot!) and that's what makes it the blues.


All the sh-- that has happened to you in your life, floating through your head while you're playing.......THAT'S what makes it the blues.

On the Atlanta thing, if you're staying overnight (or multible nights), by all means stay with us. We have tons of room and you'll be well fed. All it'll cost you is some advice and recommendations on my studio . Plus, we get to talk about Ian . Seriously, think about it. Shoot me an email and we'll discuss. It would be great if Russ were around that weekend but he's usually too busy making money (and then giving it away ).

chas
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#293092 - 09/17/10 05:12 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
The price for a marginal improvement in solo sax sound is too high for me, Ian...


I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, Diki, but the improvement in the SA/SA2 sax over the sound in your G-70 is far more than just marginal.

I've played both instruments...no contest whatsoever.

You really haven't played a Tyros3 for any length of time, have you, because, since you profess to be such an expert in judging sound, I don't think you'd be saying it's "marginal" if you actually spent some time working with SA/SA2 and taking advantage of the phenomenal amount of expressiveness available to a skilled player.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293093 - 09/17/10 05:24 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Just explain how I can play piano parts on it, and I'll think about it, Ian...

Learn to take no for an answer!

I haven't gigged a 61 in twenty years or more, since the SQ2, I think. My primary stage keyboard has ALWAYS been a 76, since then. SQ2, K2500, G800, G1000, G70...

And my NEXT keyboard will be a 76, too (if I ever get one, still content that nothing is better all round than the G). Doesn't appear (for now) that Yamaha have their act together when it comes to GOOD 76 arrangers, so I guess I'll have to be content with my relic's sax sound STILL sounding better than SA2 in the hands of 99% of the players that use it!

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#293094 - 09/17/10 05:43 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Just explain how I can play piano parts on it, and I'll think about it, Ian...



If you really want to play piano, get a piano...semi-weighted keys aren't for the piano player...they are a compromise.

Get yourself a real digital 88 note piano and stop losing those piano chops.

The weight shouldn't bother you...you are already dragging around a pig already...what's another 30 lbs going to matter to an athlete like yourself?

Even an old guy like me has no problem bringing along a P-85...it fits easily in my car along with the S910.

A young, perfectly in-shape guy like yourself (you must be if you're dragging around that old pig by yourself) shouldn't balk at an extra keyboard that would mean you wouldn't have to compromise playing piano on a wimpy keybed.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293095 - 09/17/10 06:17 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Weird... could have sworn I remember you telling me that a flimsy plastic keybed like the S910's was no impediment to you being able to play with dynamics and control, and was, in fact, your preferred keybed for playing any sound on...!

And yet, the amazingly dynamic and semi-weighted G70 action is apparently completely incapable of being used for a piano sound...

So, which is it?

Once again, you want it both ways.

There's a reason they don't make fully weighted 61's... Any pianist will tell you that the NUMBER of keys is far more important than their weight.

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#293096 - 09/17/10 06:17 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2189
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Songman55:
It's 5 o'clock somewhere.



Haha, I resemble that remark.

Sounds great! Really amazing technology we all possess. Well, those who have a little talent can do it justice, haha.
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#293097 - 09/17/10 06:44 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
G70 action is apparently completely incapable of being used for a piano sound...


Any pianist will tell you that the NUMBER of keys is far more important than their weight.


I don't use my S910 as a piano...piano is just one of the sounds I use in the RH, so the keybed works great...dynamics are perfect.

If any pianist tells you that the NUMBER of keys is more important than their weight...they ain't much of a pianist.

Visit any digital piano forum for more information...you'll see that it matters far more than you think.

So, you aren't really a pianist after all...

No wonder using unweighted action for piano pieces doesn't bother you.

The G-70 should be just fine in your case. Stick with it, sunshine.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293098 - 09/17/10 07:12 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I've messed around quite a bit with the SA sax voices in the MoXS... to be honest, I'm not that convinced. Making them monophonic kind of limits your options (sometimes you WANT to go divisi), and, try as I might, I couldn't get even close to the famous SA sax demo. That thing was sequenced and massaged to hell and back, not live play in the slightest, and I've heard little from any live demo that elevated it far beyond what I can do with normal triggering technology.



Well, perhaps I'm skeptical, but can you get these inflections and detail with a Roland Sax sound?
http://www.youtube.com/user/TyrosYamaha#p/u/184/ym_rwU1gX14

This is just played solo...can your G-70 and you get anywheres close to this?

I'd like to hear it.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293099 - 09/17/10 07:39 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Guys, dont't be offended and PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, BUT, you're BOTH missing the whole point. With 'the blues', you either 'get it' or you don't. Sounds to me like neither of you do. This posting was about MUSIC, not sax emulations, and I'm really sorry the two of you chose to take it so far off course. Sure, music is worthy of an intellectual discussion but ultimately it's about emotion. Blues can be played with two teaspoons, but if the discussion is going to devolve into 'the metalurgical makeup of the teaspoons, then you've obviously missed the point. I've tried to make this point but obviously you two aren't listening or are only interested in your own agenda's. Really discourages anyone from posting music.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#293100 - 09/17/10 07:51 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
What a shame this had to go south as usual

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#293101 - 09/17/10 08:03 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
This posting was about MUSIC, not sax emulations, and I'm really sorry the two of you chose to take it so far off course. chas


Sorry Chas...my bad.

Please accept my apologies for straying from your original intent.

Ian the Apologetic
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293102 - 09/17/10 08:10 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
BEBOP Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 3770
Loc: San Jose, California
Chas, your the only one here that got it right.
Blues is for the blues.
Guys, go argue on your own thread. why in hell do you have to screw up every thread that is posted in this forum?
Bebop
_________________________
BEBOP

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#293103 - 09/17/10 08:20 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Thanks Bebop...I get your point.

My apologies.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293104 - 09/17/10 11:43 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
It's simple guys... read this thread IN ORDER.

Chas posts the song. Everybody likes it. I post that it's great. Chas mentions the sax solo being a lousy imitation, so I try to write a few things that might help him make the NEXT one not be seem lousy to him (me, I don't mind, as long as he's happy with it).

Donny chimes in and asks me to post something that illustrates what I mean, although it will probably be impossible... (ever ask yourself what he means by THAT?)

Ian steps in again, mentions another aspect and suggests going monophonic, then starts extolling the Yamaha SA sax sound, the first mention of any comparative sax review (you'll notice I am completely brand neutral in my post), although he says he likes the Korg sound too. Then a bit about how nothing gets realistic (not that anyone has said you can).

Couple of fun posts, then another post where I, firstly, answer Donny's call for an example, then a few more details about how I go about getting the sound, and then the comment by Donny. "Like I said ...probably Impossible.." You want to pinpoint the time this started to go downhill, IMO, here it is. I graciously answered Donny's call for an example, and this is what I get?

Followed promptly by Ian's Greek chorus of 'Both would have been more realistic if they'd used SA sounds.'

Now, sorry guys, but I know when I'm being dissed. At least Ian TRIES to be funny about it. Donny's taunt is pure snark. If it all goes downhill past this point, ask yourself who PUSHED it there. Ian's next comment is actually pretty nice, until he simply can't STOP himself from fanboy gushing about how much better it would be on a Yamaha SA sound, and the tone is set.

Sorry it went that way, chas (and thanks for the invite... got rooms close to the race, but hopefully I'll have at least a bit of time to hang), but I made a point to make my comments brand neutral. Shame it didn't stay that way. Makes me wonder if it is possible to even TALK just about playing, here.

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#293105 - 09/17/10 02:24 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1230
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi Chas . Loved what you were doing here. Nice to hear some great music again. the blues gets me every time. Cheers

Worth

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#293106 - 09/17/10 02:29 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
New Word of the Week ?............

drum roll please......

FANBOY


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#293107 - 09/17/10 02:43 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:


If it all goes downhill past this point, ask yourself who PUSHED it there.


You were just as much to blame Diki, so stop playing innocent. YOU could have stopped anytime YOU wanted, but YOU kept it going too...no one forced YOU to keep responding.

You're going to get reindeer poo if you're not careful.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-17-2010).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293108 - 09/17/10 02:50 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
You were just as much to blame Diki, so stop playing innocent. YOU could have stopped anytime YOU wanted, but YOU kept it going too...no one forced YOU to keep responding.

You're going to get reindeer poo if you're not careful.
ian


I glad diki finished with his self absence hissy fit a few weeks ago and is back in rare form again.. brilliant!!

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#293109 - 09/18/10 01:52 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Like I said ...probably Impossible..




Sorry, Ian, but where I come from, the FIRST person to shove is the one generally blamed for the melee...

Of course, hockey rules are somewhat different, aren't they?

BTW, it's interesting that, after Donny specifically asked for an example, he hasn't said a WORD about it, or even acknowledged that I actually posted anything at all. Sorry, Donny, but ALL your requests for musical example will be completely ignored in the future, as it is obvious that they are mere taunts and not a sincere desire for any example whatsoever.

Others are still welcome to ask, though. Perhaps Mr DiLeo is interested?

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#293110 - 09/18/10 02:06 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Diki.......
why ask the impossible anymore?...you should just provide it just to explain what your saying most of the time. You have created a shield for most just from the babbling rhetoric you spew.....I for one take a grain of salt attitude as most I assume.... I know who to turn to for
Real serious information. I tried to be nice but again you have taken this south thank you. I think even John DeLeo would be dissapointed in you also

Carry On

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#293111 - 09/18/10 02:07 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Wow! If anybody wants to get in the mood to play the blues, just read this thread, especially those parts that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic. I think Nigel should change the thread title to LASTWORDITIS; and while he's at it, he should make the age limit for posting 8 yrs old or above.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#293112 - 09/18/10 02:15 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, chas, but I'm NOT going to let that idiot get away with this.

Donny... I posted a tune to illustrate what you wanted. EXACTLY what you asked for. Are you blind, deaf, or just stupid to have missed it? Because it's one or more of the three.

I lean to the latter.

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#293113 - 09/18/10 02:43 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Sorry, chas, but I'm NOT going to let that idiot get away with this.

Donny... I posted a tune to illustrate what you wanted. EXACTLY what you asked for. Are you blind, deaf, or just stupid to have missed it? Because it's one or more of the three.

I lean to the latter.


Ok I'll be man and apologize for NOT seeing that you posted something from two years ago....I somehow missed it as we are on "page two" of this southern journey...
I would have preferred something done currently with just the G70 but I guess "IDIOTS" can't be choosy eh?
Boy it was nice when you were gone but I guess I'll go back to ignoring you as usual...have fun with yourself as there are too many good people on SZ to enjoy.

btw thanx for showing off your true colors again

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#293114 - 09/18/10 03:07 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:


Sorry, Ian, but where I come from, the FIRST person to shove is the one generally blamed for the melee...



Where I come from, it takes two to have a scrap...that's if you aren't wise enough to walk away...

I went to a fight last week, and a hockey game broke out.

Did you play hockey, Diki, or was playing hookey as close as you got?

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293115 - 09/19/10 01:39 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Donny, you made a post immediately following my post with the URL on it on Page 1. DON'T pretend you didn't even see it...

And for someone who plays primarily music from the fifties and sixties, what is your PROBLEM with an example of mine from a couple of years ago? It perfectly illustrates what I was posting. Do you somehow think that you deserve to have me do a custom recording to answer you if I already have something done that works?

Truth is, it appears you DO...

Anyway, enjoy it. It is the LAST thing I will ever post in response to a question by you. Keep holding onto that chicken hat

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#293116 - 09/19/10 01:44 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Ahhhh... Canadian health care I guess you guys, when someone comes up and sucker punches you, don't even have the stones to hit back. How nice. Where I come from, someone comes up and hits you, that's a scrap, whether you hit back or not

And, BTW, it was playing the hookah, not hookey OR hockey that got me into trouble!

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#293117 - 09/19/10 02:04 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Ahhhh... I guess you guys, when someone comes up and sucker punches you, don't even have the stones to hit back. How nice.


No son, we usually return any cowardly strike with surprising rapidity, and with such skill and accuracy, the sucker puncher quickly becomes the sucker who's punched.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293118 - 09/19/10 07:09 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
It is the LAST thing I will ever post in response to a question by you. Keep holding onto that chicken hat


I hope this is a promise?...

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#293119 - 09/19/10 08:39 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:

And, BTW, it was playing the hookah, not hookey OR hockey that got me into trouble!



And I said:

No no no no, I don't smoke it no more
I'm tired of waking up on the floor
No, thank you, please,
It only makes me sneeze
And then it makes it hard to find the door.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293120 - 09/19/10 09:08 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Guys, if I ever DO post another 'music' thread, do me a favor and don't post to it. If you feel as though you just HAVE to comment on it, send me a an email. It's annoying to see something posted in good faith, get so utterly trashed. Despite your proclamations to the contrary, I guess you really DIDN'T get Bebop's message. Still, I'm willing to bet that if Nigel were to intercede, you'd both feel as though you were being picked on.

I see that it has also spread to other threads as well. One sign of maturity is to know when enough is enough, and when to turn the testosterone spiggot off.

Here's an idea. How about starting your own 'knife fight' thread for just the two of you (with maybe guest appearances by DNJ). Seems better than commandeering someone else's thread. You could use the BAR, no, on second thought, not the BAR; we like the BAR. I'm not asking Nigel to shut this thread down (since it's useful life has long since been snuffed out), but it sure wouldn't make me unhappy.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#293121 - 09/19/10 09:44 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
eddiefromrotherham Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 788
Loc: Rotherham,England.
I don't suppose my comment will be the last in this thread....some just cannot let go......but I just want to say that I REALLY enjoyed the Chas blues rendition which strangely enough is a fitting "theme" for what followed it.

I am now going to my board and play me some blues....... .....
_________________________
Eddie from Rotherham
http://www.music2myears.plus.com

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#293122 - 09/19/10 10:17 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Chas,
I jut reviewed this tread. Your playing was very good playing and a good rendition of the blues.

It is unfortunate that the three amigos have displayed their Kindergarten mentality and caused the thread to go down hill.
Hopefully they would stop and we can go back to talking about the music.




------------------
I have shortened my ID to TTG
_________________________
TTG

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#293123 - 09/19/10 11:57 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
It's annoying to see something posted in good faith, get so utterly trashed. chas


Ah shucks, Chas...now, you know you ain't the innoocent little angel when it comes to getting in some sly (and not so sly) digs, and sidetracking a thread or two (or three).

How quickly one forgets.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293124 - 09/19/10 12:04 PM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Ah shucks, Chas...now, you know you ain't the innoocent little angel when it comes to getting in some sly (and not so sly) digs, and sidetracking a thread or two (or three).

How quickly one forgets.

Ian


Didn't they both leave in a hissy fit a months or so ago?..
now back, it's off to the races again
...Ian nobody forgot...63 posts ?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-19-2010).]

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#293125 - 09/20/10 06:08 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
No son, we usually return any cowardly strike with surprising rapidity, and with such skill and accuracy, the sucker puncher quickly becomes the sucker who's punched.



I believe that's exactly what happened here.

But he's too chicken-hat (I think that's the term ) to acknowledge he threw the first punch. Anyone that has been on this forum long enough recognizes this as familiar behavior. But I should be grateful. Usually, he goes back and edits his posts so that no-one after the act can see what he did... And he posted under his own name...!

I guess we should all be grateful for at least SOME progress

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#293126 - 09/20/10 06:13 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I guess we should all be grateful for at least SOME progress


Yes we should, Diki...Donny has obviously learned from his mistakes.

That's always a good thing.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-20-2010).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#293127 - 09/20/10 06:40 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39573
Loc: NJ
Beautiful morning..it's a new week !!

Life is Good

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#293128 - 09/20/10 08:33 AM Re: Just felt like playing some blues
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6736
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Good post, Chas. The rest of this stuff is just embarrassing!


R.

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 09-20-2010).]

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