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#292658 - 09/11/10 01:15 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
If there were no lacking features in the PSR 9000 then there should never have been a T1, T2, T3, and T4.

Yamaha thinks different from you in that they do not think a lot of persons are using their older arranger. If they did they would not be making so many new arrangers.


Look Ian you may not agree with Yamaha’s way of business but that is what has been working for them and other manufacturers should follow if they want to stay in the TOTL arranger business.


Companies must sell new arrangers to stay in business... n'est-ce-pas? Simple basic marketing, wouldn't you agree?

Look Genny, you may not agree, or even understand Yamaha's way of doing business, but if you did, you'd see that it was more like new features were developed rather than there were features that were lacking, else-wise the present owners of 9000/8000/3000 etc, wouldn't still be content with their instruments.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp this simple concept, but please try reading it slowly and carefully, and it will soon become clear to you....go back to your little Genesys arranger and keep those tiny fingers busy and away from your computer keypad until it does.

Have a nice day,

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#292659 - 09/11/10 01:39 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
DannyUK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 1130
Didn't Technics make incremental upgrades to their TOTL range but still went broke?

My own interpretation of why Yamaha make so many models is so that they can attract the customers who don't already have a Yamaha or maybe those who used to own one of their models a while ago (like I did in the past as my last Yammy was a PSR8000 before I got the T3). I don't think Yamaha are specifically aiming their ranges always at owners who already have the latest model, eg, I wouldn't be surprised if many T3 owners don't upgrade this time around but probably attract T1 owners or earlier to take the plunge as well as people who have been attacted by Yamaha but own something else.

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#292660 - 09/11/10 04:27 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Technics did not go broke, the accountants decided that the 1% of the Panasonic empire that the Technics keyboards represented, was not worthwhile continuing. (If it had been an individual manufacture, they would probably still be building keyboards today)

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#292661 - 09/11/10 04:45 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Companies must sell new arrangers to stay in business... n'est-ce-pas? Simple basic marketing, wouldn't you agree?

Look Genny, you may not agree, or even understand Yamaha's way of doing business, but if you did, you'd see that it was more like new features were developed rather than there were features that were lacking, else-wise the present owners of 9000/8000/3000 etc, wouldn't still be content with their instruments.

I know it's difficult for you to grasp this simple concept, but please try reading it slowly and carefully, and it will soon become clear to you....go back to your little Genesys arranger and keep those tiny fingers busy and away from your computer keypad until it does.

Have a nice day,

Ian


You can play semantics all you like but facts are facts.

If you believe that adding features that other arrangers have had for years is development by all means keep on believing.
I am sure Santa claws would be very generous to you this Christmas if you continue to be a good boy.

If a T3 was to attract a PSR 8000 user or a none Yamaha user, why was not the T1 able to do it?

Ian it appears business strategies is not your area and it may be difficult (maybe even heart breaking) for you to understand why looking out for the best interest of the customer is not always good for the company. Yamaha’s way of doing business is whats keeping you in business. So just keep on doing your little Yamaha demos and clinics and continue selling Yamaha products.
I will continue playing my Genesys that I am still satisfied with today.
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#292662 - 09/11/10 05:06 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:

Ian it appears business strategies is not your area... Yamaha’s way of doing business is whats keeping you in business. So just keep on doing your little Yamaha demos and clinics and continue selling Yamaha products.
I will continue playing my Genesys that I am still satisfied with today.


Thankfully business strategies is not my area of expertise (and certainly not yours), and yes, Yamaha's way of doing business is keeping me working and wealthy beyond my wildest dreams...at the rate I'm getting paid, I should be able to retire when I'm 127.

It's nice to see you are still promoting your little Genesys, the pinnacle of a once proud, but now extinct company whose bones are now bleaching alongside those of Technics.

If you've finished making your dubious points, I'd like to leave this stimulating converstaion where it stands.

Your participation was interesting, to say the least (and believe me, I am)

It's been almost wonderful.

Thank you very, very little.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#292663 - 09/11/10 05:37 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Oh Wow!! Ian has resorted to the old class clown technique. When unable to understand something make fun of the situation. This discussion was not about making points.
The topic was whats up with Roland.
We have not seen a TOTL arranger from them in a long time and if they are out of the arranger game, it could be because they were making well made products.
That was their downfall since if you make a product that your customers can keep for 10 years or more, then it makes it very difficult to sell a new product to them.
They should have done like Yamaha and make a product that is good initially, do not give free OS upgrades that drastically changes the product and then make a new hardware product that covers the areas the prier did not.
Now, obviously aggressive marketing and proper product place will play a major part in this equation.


This is not just for Roland but for other TOTL arranger manufacturers as well.
Korg giving a free upgrade when they added DNC and Ketron giving a OS upgrade that radically changed the product may have been good for the customer but bad for the company.
If it were Yamaha, to get similar types of changes in a keyboard, you have to buy a new hardware board. Just look at the T2 to the T3.

The only saving grace for Roland is if they plan to integrate their TOTL arranger and workstation in to one board and still have a division for the low and mid arrangers.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 09-11-2010).]
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#292664 - 09/11/10 05:54 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:

The topic was whats up with Roland.
We have not seen a TOTL arranger from them in a long time and if they are out of the arranger game, it could be because they were making well made products.
That was their downfall since if you make a product that your customers can keep for 10 years or more, then it makes it very difficult to sell a new product to them.


I disagree, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yamaha was already making quality products that customers kept for 10 years or more...witness the many owners of 9000/8000/3000/2000...no different than Roland's tactics.

Where they do differ is that Yamaha also makes new arrangers with incremental upgrades, each arranger very capable of lasting over 10 years in the hands of a happy user, which they are doing as we speak.

Roland is out of the arranger game, not because they produced well made instruments, but these instruments were the victims of poor product placement, poor marketing and dismal promotion.

They also had no low end products to help support the other divisions.

It's not that your opinion is wrong...it's just incomplete.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#292665 - 09/11/10 07:02 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Yes we will certainly have to agree to disagree.
I can not argue with inconsistencies.

If you have lots of customers who have the older Yamaha boards, then who are the ones buying the keyboard with incremental upgrades?
Obviously, the number of persons who have older Yamaha arrangers are insignificant to Yamaha because they still find it necessary to make new arrangers.
_________________________
TTG

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#292666 - 09/11/10 08:28 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
I can not argue with inconsistencies.

If you have lots of customers who have the older Yamaha boards, then who are the ones buying the keyboard with incremental upgrades?


Yes, and you are consistently inconsistent, so I can't argue with yours either.

But, I can answer your question, and I can only hope you are open-minded enough to see my point...if not, that's okay, too.

The ones buying the newer Yamaha keyboards are the ones who weren't happy with another manufacturer's product, as well as new clients just getting into arrangers.

Of course, some of the owners of older Yamaha arrangers will eventually upgrade to a new one, sometimes that will depend on how long they've had the instrument, any changes in their needs, and sometimes just for some new sounds and a taste of newer technology...it's the same way for other manufactures as well, including Roland and Korg, the former no longer in the high and mid-range brackets.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#292667 - 09/11/10 09:17 AM Re: Whats up with ROLAND?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
“Of course, some of the owners of older Yamaha arrangers will eventually upgrade to a new one, sometimes that will depend on how long they've had the instrument, any changes in their needs, and sometimes just for some new sounds and a taste of newer technology...”
Double talk?

Still does not solve the issues of there having to be a T1 T2 T3 T4.

Ian I guess I will have to leave you by your self to talk in circles.
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TTG

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