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#291958 - 09/01/10 09:26 AM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
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Originally posted by ianmcnll: The Tyros4 will not sound completely different.
My guess is that it is an internal upgrade, much like the S910 was over S900.
Yamaha has an established customer base that already are pleased with the Yamaha sound and operating system.
I believe the Tyros4 is intended for Tyros and Tyros2 owners, as well as PSR users that want to upgrade.
Now is a good time to buy a leftover Tyros3.
Ian Have to agree. The XF8 is not all that much more than the XS8 as an "upgrade". But they did add some nice things and took away some nice things. Added 136 voices (for those who run out of useful voices on the XS8) They took out the FW and made it an option. Added some $300 Flash RAM card options to save samples rather than reload upon start up. All in all still the king of workstations (47% of the market. The additional ARPS are what I would be most interested in. I exoect the T-4 to be the same. Looks like the Hard Drive is still there (maybe an SSD?) nah.... XLR likely means phantom Power and condenser mike recording which is huge for those who compose and record solely on their their units and those of us who love the Beta 87. (could this mean eight or more of onboard audio recording as well?) Would love to see "direct to USB recording" like the XS has as well. More SA2 sounds, Styles, Multis, Since the T3 IS a sampler the additional voices are less of an impact. The SA2 Voice packs Yamaha released were pitiful really. I bought the Trombone. It is my experience that people who don't use Yamaha products have higher expectations of Yamaha products than those who actually like and use them. The s910 was a worthy upgrade for $50 more than the S900. The USB recording and new screen alone was worth that. It's like DAW software...skip a version for a more intense upgrade experience.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4 Yamaha Motif XS8 Roland RD700 Casio PX-330 Martin DC Aura Breedlove ATlas Solo Bose MOD II PA
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#291959 - 09/01/10 11:00 AM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Member
Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
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#291960 - 09/01/10 11:05 AM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
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so should i wait till Sept. 17th to buy my AUDYA?
Yamaha always makes high quality demos, But the actual keyboards (Tyros line) lacks in realism IMO, at least in comparison with AUDYA
KETRON is opposite, they make crappy demos, but the keyboard is WAY AWESOME
so too much hype for Yamaha again, as was Tyros 3,
Yamaha likes to tease, tease, tease, but we all like to be pleased, pleased, pleased...
but maybe the'll prove me wrong this time around we'll see on the 17th
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#291970 - 09/01/10 02:02 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
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My only question is when is Yamaha going to "stop beating a dead horse" already? Nothing radical has occurred since the original Tyros, in my opinion, only some improvement with the introduction of Super Articulation/2 and some minor cosmetics e.g. sliders, etc.; since the original Tyros already included Mega Voice technology and a huge LCD screen, etc. In fact, (and don't laugh) the Drums on the Tyros4 sound worse than the Drums on the original Tyros in my opinion. And that Irish song sounds "horrible" if you ask me. Not to worry though, as most assuredly Yamaha will most likely sell a boat load of Tyros4' having realized a long time ago they can pretty much "put anything out there" and their devoted customer base will fall head over heels in love taking the 'incremental' bait "hook, line, and sinker - as always." And Yamaha laughs all the way to the bank... beating another dead horse to a pulp in the process. But what do I know. If people keep buying their enormously expensive incremental upgrade keyboards Yamaha will gladly keep doling them out to you. When people "demand" something more than just 'smoke and mirrors' and minor incremental improvements (and withhold their wallets until such a time) then, and only then, will Yamaha (and others) start to produce something of real significance and considered "par excellence." Until then, mediocrity (incrementalism) will be the new normal - all because people "don't give a hoot" - apparently. How's that to brighten your day? All the best, Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
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#291972 - 09/01/10 02:24 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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Originally posted by keybplayer: My only question is when is Yamaha going to "stop beating a dead horse" already?
Nothing radical has occurred since the original Tyros, in my opinion, only some improvement with the introduction of Super Articulation/2 and some minor cosmetics e.g. sliders, etc.; since the original Tyros already included Mega Voice technology and a huge LCD screen, etc. In fact, (and don't laugh) the Drums on the Tyros4 sound worse than the Drums on the original Tyros in my opinion. And that Irish song sounds "horrible" if you ask me.
Not to worry though, as most assuredly Yamaha will most likely sell a boat load of Tyros4' having realized a long time ago they can pretty much "put anything out there" and their devoted customer base will fall head over heels in love taking the 'incremental' bait "hook, line, and sinker - as always." And Yamaha laughs all the way to the bank... beating another dead horse to a pulp in the process. But what do I know.
If people keep buying their enormously expensive incremental upgrade keyboards Yamaha will gladly keep doling them out to you. When people "demand" something more than just 'smoke and mirrors' and minor incremental improvements (and withhold their wallets until such a time) then, and only then, will Yamaha (and others) start to produce something of real significance and considered "par excellence." Until then, mediocrity (incrementalism) will be the new normal - all because people "don't give a hoot" - apparently. How's that to brighten your day?
All the best, MikeI guess no one is listening to your train of thought Mike as the T4 will outsell the T3 by a mile, as the throngs of loyal worldwide players love them....and why not? they sound AWESOME!!! and are so easy to play & operate... Yamaha will have another winner on September 17th for sure!
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#291973 - 09/01/10 02:54 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by keybplayer: My only question is when is Yamaha going to "stop beating a dead horse" already?
It appears the "dead horse" has begun another life cycle, Michael. Appears that you and several other naysayers, not buying a Tyros has had little effect on the Tyros' accomplishments and longevity. What some people fail to realize, is that Tyros, in all it's iterations, is, and has been, a success. A radical change would mean an entirely new instrument that would not use the Tyros name, so incremental changes are the norm for each new Tyros model. Just my views, Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#291979 - 09/02/10 11:05 AM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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#291981 - 09/02/10 12:02 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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Unless Yamaha have a pro rack Harmonizer somewhere in their product lineup, where on earth are they going to come up with the technology for a pro Harmonizer to put in an arranger? Auto-tune and other pitch correctors and harmony generators is some of the hottest software being used today, on just about ALL commercial productions. But Yamaha do not have a significant contender in this field. Expecting the first incarnation of something that IS world-class to appear in an obscure product line without having been splashed all over the rack processor division first is optimistic beyond belief, IMO. BTW, the earlier contention: Originally posted by Dnj: I guess no one is listening to your train of thought Mike as the T4 will outsell the T3 by a mile
is optimistic (or fanboy gushing, again). Did the T3 outsell even the T2? Somehow, in today's economy, I doubt it. Will the T4 outsell the T3? With the recession still raging, I doubt it. I would be very surprised to hear anything other than the T2 was the best selling Tyros so far, hitting the bubble just perfectly, loads of disposable income, and SA as a VERY significant improvement (so far missing from any subsequent Tyros) to justify the move. It still astounds me that anyone would even CONSIDER upgrading on such a tiny timeline, especially how little the upgrade gives you. I know, I know, a fool and his money are easily parted, but in these economic times, there has GOT to be a lot fewer fools around! A few sounds, a few features (very few, from all evidence so far!), a few new styles... you are going to ditch a well loved piece of gear you have worked hard to master, customize and become intimate with, for so little...? BTW, this isn't just Yamaha users. An awful lot of us equate a newer arranger with being better players. Boy, have I got bad news for you! I would be willing to bet that, in a blind listening test, unless a recognizably new sound was featured front and center, few of us here could tell a T2 from a T3. Especially in a user demo. Same for PA1 against PA2, G70 against E80, etc.. Heck, I've heard some SD1 stuff that was VERY close to some Audya demos..! Until the difference is night and day, until there is no doubt what model you are hearing from the first note onwards, why are you chucking money away and getting so little for it? Surely you don't think it is going to make YOU better? I guarantee, take the $1500 or so that trading up would have cost you, and spend it on a GOOD teacher, you will THINK you have bought a new arranger when you listen to yourself play
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#291989 - 09/06/10 07:05 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
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Diki, Yep, You are right..BUT, we want a new arranger or whatever because we like the new better sounds & styles, it's FUN! Don't you like to have fun with a new instrument?
In a way it does make you a better player because you are more INSPIRED!
If the voices sound better and more real, and the styles wrk better with a song, it's more fun to play that song...because it does sound better. Repeat, it does sound better.
Will it bring you up to a much higher level of skill, NOT, but it may ispire to be better and practice more.
That's mu 2 cents worth, based on 45 years of playing and buying instruments.
Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.
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#291995 - 09/11/10 10:47 AM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by Bachus: Its still the same technollogy as the T3... When Korg bings new sounds and styles in a package they call it a free update...
Of course it is the same technology, Bachus; it is a "Tyros" after all. In fact, the basic engineering goes back quite some way, but mostly back to the original Tyros. It works, and it works successfully, both sonically and economically. If it were to be a completely new instrument, with a new sound generator, and other new technology, it would not be called a Tyros model anymore...it would have a new name. Korg's last free update was when? I doubt you'll see anymore, if there is a new Korg PA on the way. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#291996 - 09/11/10 11:02 AM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
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Originally posted by ianmcnll: Of course it is the same technology, Bachus; it is a "Tyros" after all. In fact, the basic engineering goes back quite some way, but mostly back to the original Tyros.
It works, and it works successfully, both sonically and economically.
If it were to be a completely new instrument, with a new sound generator, and other new technology, it would not be called a Tyros model anymore...it would have a new name.
Korg's last free update was when?
I doubt you'll see anymore, if there is a new Korg PA on the way.
Ian
Well as long as people that buy these instruments can live with that, i guess Yamaha is right to do things like this.....
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#291998 - 09/11/10 12:34 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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Looks like they added the ability to use SA voices as part of the style... that ought to raise the bar a bit! Polyphony remains the same (but 128 ought to be sufficient!). A LOT more voices, especially SA stuff, but we'll have to wait and see whether all these new voices use new samples, or are just variations on the same sample set. Ditto for the drums... Flash RAM is going to change the game, albeit expensively, but Yamaha are still locked into their own proprietary multisample format, no Akai import or Soundfonts etc., so the choice you get to fill it will still remain in Yamaha's (so far) miserly hands. It is LONG past time Yamaha opened up their samplers (Motif's have the same problem) to the largest sample collection out there. Oh, and Lee... no, on the whole, I'm far more gratified to coax new sounds out of what I already have, to learn to better PLAY it, to make it a part of my playing. Constantly removing your familiarity with your gear by upgrading long before you've exhausted the current one's possibilities is a game for those with more income than sense, IMO We got a price in the US on the T4 yet? Apparently, the MoXF comes in at exactly the same price as the XS, despite its' improved capabilities. Is Yamaha keeping the price on its' arranger products as static? Knowing Yamaha, I doubt it. Better get some lube handy
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#292000 - 09/11/10 01:06 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by Bachus: Well as long as people that buy these instruments can live with that, i guess Yamaha is right to do things like this..... No one buys an instrument because they are forced to get it...Yamaha's elder arrangers (PSR-8000/9000/3000/2000), as well as those golden oldies from Roland like the G-70 and G-1000 are still viable, and still in use with many happy owners who are still creating new sounds, styles and great music on them. The Tyros4 will have it's supporters and detractors, just like any other company's arrangers, and it looks to be a fairly substantial upgrade from the Tyros3, especially in the drums/percussion and SA voices, the latter of which are doubled (same for mega voices). I'm looking forward to hearing and playing it, and hopefully I'll have one on my sample account in the very near future. I was holding off getting anything new, hoping I'd spring for an S910 at the end of their cycle (cheaper again), but if I really like the Tyros4, I just might end up with one...I don't do much gigging anymore, just a lot of recording, so it would be a terrific tool for my needs. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#292001 - 09/11/10 03:18 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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I'd be interested in finding out, if you trumpeted it loud and clear and constantly, that pretty near ALL the new styles for the T4 would be ported over to the T3/T2, etc., how many would reconsider buying one... After all, all of the T3's styles were eventually re-voiced for the T2 910's for the 900, etc.. Sure, there's usually a few months' wait, but they ARE going to come. And sure, they won't sound EXACTLY the same. But they'll still be VERY welcome to older arranger players. I've got a sneaky feeling that those new styles is often (along with a couple of lead sounds) really the ONLY reason some people upgrade... Well, this time round, remind yourselves that those styles WILL be available before you start getting all weak at the knees at upgrading to the T4... Good things come to those that wait! [This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-11-2010).]
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#292003 - 09/11/10 05:55 PM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
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Originally posted by Machetero: Diki,
You never have, and never will be able to put true-full words like those ones. I only hope, that we all can remember them.
Thanks !!!!
[.] I hope I can remember them when I start playing the Tyros4, but I have a feeling my memory will fail. Of course, having a new Tyros4 in my studio is certainly not a bad thing. At 61, I'm not much in the mood for waiting...life is short enough. Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.
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#292011 - 09/12/10 11:47 AM
Re: Tyros 4 Sneek Preview
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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Unless things have changed radically, all Yamaha allow you to do is either import their sound format, already formatted for the Tyros, with the multisamples and vel-splits and voice programming already done. But they are expensive and Yamaha release VERY few... after all these years bitching, Yamaha have STILL to release a good drum kit in sampler form. Talk about NOT listening to your customers! Currently, there are only a tiny few choices, and the Tyros has had a sampler on board since the T1, haven't they? That works out to maybe one sound a year, on average! Hardly enough to justify the capability, honestly. After that, Yamaha have NO multisample import. That means, if you are trying to import a soundfont set, or the raw data of a VSTi, you have to laboriously import each and every single sample, which can run to HUNDREDS for a multi-velocity piano or drum kit, etc.. THEN you have to make sure that the pitch range and velocity range is exactly the same as how each sample is used in the original instrument, THEN you have to voice each sample with the voice programming yourself... On a Korg, you can import Akai multisample sets in one go. All the samples, already mapped out onto the keyboard for you... Yes, you'll STILL have to do the voice programming (unless you can substitute the multisample for a ROM set of the same kind of sound, and use some voice programming already worked out - but it's still pretty heavily dependent on how the sample sounds), but you have saved yourself HOURS, if not days, recreating a complex multisample layout. Having the capability to do something, but making it so labor-intensive generally means that VERY few will actually use it. Yamaha need to add Akai and soundfont import if they want people to take the sampler seriously on a Tyros. Currently, it is a mere marketing hook, forcing you to buy your voices (VERY expensively) from Yamaha, when they are generous enough to even make any... The MoXF's voice architecture is very different from the T4's. I highly doubt you will be able to import XF voices into a T4. You want to make a product that will sell well, James? Make a program that automatically converts Akai multisamples into Yamaha's format! [This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-12-2010).]
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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