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#284627 - 04/05/10 08:43 AM Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115

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#284628 - 04/05/10 09:44 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39530
Loc: NJ
I wasnt that impressed same old funky stuff that in the real world on stage most have no need for....why can't these demo guys just show off styles that are main stream .....
I also think the blaring drums are way too out front causing the rest of the style music to get lost in the mix.....was this the hyped OS4? Yamaha arrangers are so balanced in that regard thats why I love them. Thanx for posting.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-05-2010).]

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#284629 - 04/05/10 09:47 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
he was just closing Messe with a funky tune, not necessarily OS4,
the other videos talk more on OS4

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#284630 - 04/05/10 11:33 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
NiteLife Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 264
Loc: Cape Coral, Florida USA
Nothing wrong at all with that " Old Funky Stuff "!The Audya really shines with the Funk, and the Rock accompaniments! When performing for a younger crowd, the Audya kicks some major Butt! I agree the Yamaha's have a balanced " Sweet " sound, in fact I think Yamaha ( Tyros 3 ) has earned the Pretty Accompaniments award in my book. However the Audya's use of real audio drums and guitars creates a LIVE BAND on stage sound that has never been accomplished with any of the dozen or so arrangers I have played professionally over the years.

The ease of adjusting the balance between the drums, bass, lower background voice, solo voice etc. is also a big plus for the Audya.

Don't get me wrong, the Yamaha line of arrangers are great machines. However the enjoyment and satisfaction of what the Audya does for the player and the audience, I feel is unsurpassed. I have both the Audya and the Tyros 3 with me on stage so I speak with experience. For a LIVE, Realistic sound on stage, the Audya win's. Especially with the Rock, Funk and R&B accompaniments. I have appropriately nick named the Audya, " THE BEAST"!

I'm having the time of my life six nights a week!

Jim

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#284631 - 04/05/10 11:43 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
NiteLife Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 264
Loc: Cape Coral, Florida USA
I might add, I agree with leezone. Robert is a very accomplished musician and knows how to utilize the machine!!

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#284632 - 04/05/10 12:28 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
NiteLife

you are "new" to me.

good to know there are OTHERS here with AUDYA, besides those "2" which some claim

also nice that you OWN both AUDYA and YAMMY, and can compare these 2.

i do LOVE the KETRON live sound very much

and therefore cant wait to try/buy the AUDYA4 module

wow you play 6 days a week?
lucky you,

and where you from?

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#284633 - 04/05/10 01:38 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
NiteLife Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 264
Loc: Cape Coral, Florida USA
Hi Leezone, I live in SW Florida and have been playing professionally for over 38 years. I love playing out and I certainly can't go wrong with both an Audya and Tyros 3 with me on stage. I am new to Synth Zone, but have followed the forum for years. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all on here.
Please visit my web site and hang out for a while. A lot of info there about me, my Duo and our music.
WWW.Southernexpressmusic.com

Thanks Leezone for your interest.

Jim

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#284634 - 04/05/10 02:53 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1230
Loc: United Kingdom
thats a great demo !!

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#284635 - 04/05/10 05:45 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Great player on a great keyboard yields of course...
A great demo

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#284636 - 04/05/10 06:20 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Awesome demo, and fantastic sounding drums...best I've heard on an arranger.

The organ sound wasn't too shabby either.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#284637 - 04/05/10 06:30 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Yep sounds great. I like that funky stuff

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#284638 - 04/06/10 12:32 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Been a while since you played with a drummer, hasn't it, Donny?

Those drums are EXACTLY what a real drummer would sound like in a real band. You need to get away from the Yamaha drums and go listen to some live music now and again...

And what do you mean by 'main stream'? You mean main stream as in Rhianna or T-Pain? Or 'main stream' as in Louis Prima? Funk still packs the floor for the age crowd I like to play for!

Mind you, that WAS an SMF he was playing with, not a style, wasn't it? Funny how we give Ketron a pass, but get all bent out of shape when Yamaha or Roland 'doctor' up their demos...

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#284639 - 04/06/10 01:30 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
vangelis Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 384
Loc: FLORIDA
Let's face it and not kid ourselves, the Audya is the BEST! at the moment, WOW! I am very impressed with this keyboard, now what does KORG have around the corner? hmmmm I hope they lower the price on the 61 key version.
_________________________
Currently main setup on stage are:KORG PA4X

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#284640 - 04/06/10 04:23 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Spalding 4 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 96
Loc: UK
yes i dont like the fact that a SMF was used but you still cant deny the quality of the sound. what would be even better is if there was a genuine sequencern built into the keyboard so that someone who is inclined to program onboard the instrument can do so. I have asked the question on a previous thread but as yet there has been no answer.I dont mean a sequencer in the sense that the T1,2 or 3 has. I mean a sequencer at least as highly spec'd as the PA1X.

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#284641 - 04/06/10 05:24 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
The use of a SMF taints whatever impression I may have had about this or any other arranger keyboard. As soon as you introduce the SMF, you have to conclude that you could do the same with controller and module, controller and laptop, any other SMF-playing non-arranger keyboard, etc. The whole point of demo'ing an arranger keyboard (IMO) is to demonstrate it's ARRANGER capabilities. Of course the quality of the sounds is important, but if that is the primary criterium, the Mediastation or a laptop full of premium sounds and loops could surely best it.

I doubt if a professional photographer wants a 'point and shoot' camera as his primary tool so how can a professional musician admire most the features that demand less of him as a musician? I can understand some of the sentiments here on this board because we have a mix of players that range from strictly amateur home players to full-time pro's. Obviously their needs are not the same and neither would be their desired feature set. But for pro's to drool over a keyboard because of the way a SMF sounds when played through it, is mystifying to me.

I had perked up initially because I thought Ketron had finally introduced some styles that I could warm up to (I'm not a fan of Ketron styles), but that bubble was quickly burst with the disclosure that it was a SMF. BTW, this is not 'anti-arranger' talk, it is merely questioning what it is we're admiring here.

chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 04-06-2010).]
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#284642 - 04/06/10 05:27 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by vangelis:
Let's face it and not kid ourselves, the Audya is the BEST! at the moment, WOW! I am very impressed with this keyboard, now what does KORG have around the corner? hmmmm I hope they lower the price on the 61 key version.


The best? I don't think so. The most expensive. Yes.

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#284643 - 04/06/10 05:37 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
The use of a SMF taints whatever impression I may have had about this or any other arranger keyboard. As soon as you introduce the SMF, you have to conclude that you could do the same with controller and module, controller and laptop, any other SMF-playing non-arranger keyboard, etc. The whole point of demo'ing an arranger keyboard (IMO) is to demonstrate it's ARRANGER capabilities. Of course the quality of the sounds is important, but if that is the primary criterium, the Mediastation or a laptop full of premium sounds and loops could surely best it.

I doubt if a professional photographer wants a 'point and shoot' camera as his primary tool so how can a professional musician admire most the features that demand less of him as a musician? I can understand some of the sentiments here on this board because we have a mix of players that range from strictly amateur home players to full-time pro's. Obviously their needs are not the same and neither would be their desired feature set. But for pro's to drool over a keyboard because of the way a SMF sound when played through it, is mystifying to me.

I had perked up initially because I thought Ketron had finally introduced some styles that I could warm up to (I'm not a fan of Ketron styles), but that bubble was quickly burst with the disclosure that it was a SMF. BTW, this is not 'anti-arranger' talk, it merely questioning what it is we're admiring here.

chas


To be honest I also was thinking it was a style he was playing. Now it doesn't sound so good to me anymore.

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#284644 - 04/06/10 06:36 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
The use of a SMF taints whatever impression I may have had about this or any other arranger keyboard. As soon as you introduce the SMF, you have to conclude that you could do the same with controller and module, controller and laptop, any other SMF-playing non-arranger keyboard, etc.


Yes, it taints my impression as well...I'm rather disappointed that a style was not being used.

The drums were still very impressive, and the organ sound was rather good, but as for someone saying it's the "best sounding" arranger available, I can't agree with that either, Chas.

I've heard much better guitars on the Tyros3 and equally as impressive organ sounds on the Korg, and even the older Roland G-70...but the drums are really a very realistic representation of a "live" drummer.

But drums do not a complete arranger make, any more than organ sounds or guitars, or even the styles themselves...they all(arrangers) have something unique to offer and to make them desirable to certain types of players.

Drums were never a big issue for my kind of playing, but good styles and realistic voices are very important to my choice of playing all instrumental and, mostly, background music...not dance...hence my choice of Yamaha arrangers.

The Audya would be far down on my list of choices, but that's not to say it isn't a great instrument; it no doubt shines for certain purposes...just not mine.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#284645 - 04/06/10 06:43 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Another thread changed into an Audya topic.

I was with Robert last week and I saw this performance in context and spoke to him about it- unfortuantely it has been taken out of context here.

Roberts presentation was all about the Audya and version 4. There were two major sections for the most part. Sounds and then Styles. This piece was not part of the presentation.

The piece that he played was something that he worked on in his own time and had nothing to do with vesion 4 release. Had you have come along to Frankfurt or a UK roadshow you would have seen it for yourself.

What you are hearing in that video is Robert Messier performance making use of the Audya, not an OS4 demo.

TWD


[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 04-06-2010).]

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#284646 - 04/06/10 06:48 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Yes and I think if you like these Ketron drums you also could use a Korg PA500/800 or Yamaha PSR 900/910 in combination with a Ketron SD2 and you will have the same if not better results for a fraction of the price a Audya cost.

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#284647 - 04/06/10 07:02 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by FransN:
Yes and I think if you like these Ketron drums you also could use a Korg PA500/800 or Yamaha PSR 900/910 in combination with a Ketron SD2 and you will have the same if not better results for a fraction of the price a Audya cost.


you would only get fraction of the sound too.

The live drum loops on the sd2 are just that...loops.

those on the Audya are 16 bars per arranger part total 64 bars of unlooped drumming for most styles..then you have intro's, endings, fills and break.

not even mentioning the other aspects (guitars and bass)

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#284648 - 04/06/10 07:10 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39530
Loc: NJ
No matter what the Audya sounds like.....price, service & support are the three things that making people hesitant in a purchase.

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#284649 - 04/06/10 07:19 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
you would only get fraction of the sound too.

The live drum loops on the sd2 are just that...loops.

those on the Audya are 16 bars per arranger part total 64 bars of unlooped drumming for most styles..then you have intro's, endings, fills and break.

not even mentioning the other aspects (guitars and bass)



Does the Ketron have SA or DNC sounds. I don't think so. Korg have styles up to 32 bars. The Audya is just too expensive for what it gives you. Not much IMO.

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#284650 - 04/06/10 07:21 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
No matter what the Audya sounds like.....price, service & support are the three things that making people hesitant in a purchase.


excuse me....I happen to work for the company that imports Ketron into the UK.

Ketron Italy have been superb in all aspects of service and support and have helped us here with our initial lack of knowledge when we took over distribution at the end or 2008. They have helped diagnose very complex issues on older models by phone and email and continue to do so. I could give you many examples.

If anyone has a problem with support then they need to take this up with the retailer or the company distributing..not Ketron themselves. If the retailer or distributor behaves badly, only then should you contact Ketron Italy.

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#284651 - 04/06/10 07:30 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
Another thread changed into an Audya topic.



Uh, did you happen to notice the title of this thread?

??????

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#284652 - 04/06/10 07:30 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
msutliff Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 640
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
I had perked up initially because I thought Ketron had finally introduced some styles that I could warm up to..


But.....but.....but how do you know it's not a sequence recorded of an onboard style? How do you know the guy didn't take an internal Audya style, hit the record button, make all the appropriate chord changes that then allowed him to play it back and freed up both hands to lay down his lead groove?

I thought it was an great display of internal sounds, very good playing, and COOL, you can use live drums in midi files!

(just offering another opinion.........)

-mike

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#284653 - 04/06/10 07:35 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by msutliff:
But.....but.....but how do you know it's not a sequence recorded of an onboard style? How do you know the guy didn't take an internal Audya style, hit the record button, make all the appropriate chord changes that then allowed him to play it back and freed up both hands to lay down his lead groove?

I thought it was an great display of internal sounds, very good playing, and COOL, you can use live drums in midi files!

(just offering another opinion.........)

-mike


I can do all that with BIAB.

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#284654 - 04/06/10 07:37 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by FransN:
I can do all that with BIAB.


please...post a video similar to Roberts. would be great to see.

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#284655 - 04/06/10 07:39 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
please...post a video similar to Roberts. would be great to see.



No if I do that it is bad advertising for Ketron. But take a look at their website. A lot of demos with Real Band.

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 04-06-2010).]

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#284656 - 04/06/10 07:41 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
tonewheel

i think what WE are saying in general is that

WE the customers, or future customers don't get ant answers from Ketron,
only occasionally from AJ

i speak from experience as Ketron Italy fails to respond to many emails

we are not saying that the distrubutors or retailers dont get weel treated

and no offense, but WE like to hear things from the horses mouth,

all we are asking for is a little support, a liitle enlightenment,

even an answer like Steve Jobs from a regular guy who sent email inquiring when the new MBP would be out...

Jobs response..."Not To Worry..."

If Steve Jobs can take the time to answer "Joe", Ketron can too...

it would only benefit them in the longrun...

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#284657 - 04/06/10 07:56 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:
tonewheel

i think what WE are saying in general is that

WE the customers, or future customers don't get ant answers from Ketron,
only occasionally from AJ

i speak from experience as Ketron Italy fails to respond to many emails

we are not saying that the distrubutors or retailers dont get weel treated

and no offense, but WE like to hear things from the horses mouth,

all we are asking for is a little support, a liitle enlightenment,

even an answer like Steve Jobs from a regular guy who sent email inquiring when the new MBP would be out...

Jobs response..."Not To Worry..."

If Steve Jobs can take the time to answer "Joe", Ketron can too...

it would only benefit them in the longrun...



When Ketron Italy receive any kind of support question the office forwards it to the local distributor. It happens here: sometimes people send the email via ketron.it and it gets diverted to us here in the UK.

AJ just works for a retailer and I work for a distributor so neither of us can really give you any direct information from the factory (for example release dates). But I do know if we have a forwarded email it is our responsibility to act on it. Sometimes we don't know the answer and have to ask the factory for help before or during contact with the customer. If we fail to respond it looks bad on Ketron Italy.

The trouble is, some people are using this as a support forum. Posting a question here and expecting an answer is rather silly. they need to go through the correct channels.

Point of purchase first.
then local distributor
ketron Italy is a last resort.

If I wanted support or help with a problem on my new ThinkPad I would never dream of asking for official assistance on a general internet forum with a few dozen active members. I would be on the phone to my reseller like a shot.

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#284658 - 04/06/10 08:00 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
maybe Steve Jobs can help us with OS4 as he too is releasing it very soon :-)

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#284659 - 04/06/10 08:42 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by FransN:
No if I do that it is bad advertising for Ketron. But take a look at their website. A lot of demos with Real Band.

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 04-06-2010).]


don't worry, it won't be bad advertising - as i said this was more about Robert than the Audya...I honestly would love to see you do something similar.

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#284660 - 04/06/10 08:49 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
don't worry, it won't be bad advertising - as i said this was more about Robert than the Audya...I honestly would love to see you do something similar.



Nah Robert is a much better player then I am. I am just a hobbyist. But making a backing sequence is very easy on BIAB and sound very good with their Real Tracks. What I am trying to say is that you don't have to spend a fortune to create a good sounding backing sequence.

[This message has been edited by FransN (edited 04-06-2010).]

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#284661 - 04/06/10 08:59 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
The trouble is, some people are using this as a support forum. Posting a question here and expecting an answer is rather silly. they need to go through the correct channels.

..........and.......................

If I wanted support or help with a problem on my new ThinkPad I would never dream of asking for official assistance on a general internet forum with a few dozen active members. I would be on the phone to my reseller like a shot.


TWD, I'm usually in lockstep with anyone who has the good taste to recognize the tonewheel organ for the magnificent instrument it is..........HOWEVER, forums such as SZ, with knowledgeable members like Diki, Gary, Ian, Fran, Rikki, DonM, James, MAC, even yourself, and yes, even DNJ , would seem to me to be an ideal place to go for answers, especially when it appears one can go for weeks, months, sometimes forever, and not get a response from what should be the normal support channels. In fact, practically every major piece of musical or recording equipment seems to have a support forum, so why do you think the idea of posting a question here ("and expecting to get an answer") is "silly". It would certainly be INCLUDED in the list of places I'd go for support if I owned an Audya. JMO.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#284662 - 04/06/10 10:28 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
i wasn't saying don't post here for general advice- what i am saying is don't expect an official answer from any manufacturer here.

this little community (and for an internet forum it is very small), by its very nature is a general interest keyboard forum with only a few regulars with knowledge limited to the instruments they own or have owned. Why would we expect them to know the answers or even expect the various manufacturers to post here?

The trouble is, when we come to a place like this everyday we start to think it is more important than it is. the truth is, there are most likely millions of little internet communities..each just as important to the group that use them as SZ. The manufacturers can't be expected to watch all of them.

sorry for keeping this off topic. Maybe this discussion should carry on in the bar over a pint of best?

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#284663 - 04/06/10 11:00 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
rphillipchuk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 570
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:


this little community (and for an internet forum it is very small), by its very nature is a general interest keyboard forum with only a few regulars with knowledge limited to the instruments they own or have owned.
[/B]


Can you give us an example of a relatively larger Forum that is compatible to the SZ ?

------------------
createsongstyles.com
fakesheets.com

[This message has been edited by rphillipchuk (edited 04-06-2010).]

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#284664 - 04/06/10 11:19 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by rphillipchuk:
Can you give us an example of a relatively larger Forum that is compatible to the SZ ?



You missed my point..I don't want to demean SZ, its a great place to come and chat with other musicians about all sort of subjects, including general musical advice. But for anyone who has invested in new gear, the best place to go for help is to the retailer or the distributor - somehere they can expect an official and correct answer. If they don't get the help they deserve as a customer then they have every right to complain to the same.

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#284665 - 04/06/10 11:48 AM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
NiteLife Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 264
Loc: Cape Coral, Florida USA
Hi Guys, I realize I'm a newcomer to this forum as a member, however I have followed it for years. I can't help but chuckle to my self reading some of your posts.

It seems to me the discussions and what seems like arguments are between the Audya or other Ketron product owners, and the NON Audya or other Ketron product owners! What I read about the Audya from the NON Audya owners the most is about the PRICE. Features and Benefits for the money! I say:

If you can't afford this incredible piece of technology quit slamming it and talking about how you can accomplish the same thing for far less money doing this or doing that! The bottom line here with the Audya is the quality of sound, what your ears hear coming out of this machine.

The authenticity of the instruments is unmatched by any other keyboard I've ever heard or played. Just listen to the Swing Trumpet for example, Ketron should have installed a spit valve on this keyboard! Thats just one example, the list of just as good is quite extensive on this machine. They will even be better, ( I can't imagine )with the upgrades included in OS4.

In the almost 40 years I have been playing professionally, I have NEVER EVER had so many compliments come from my audience's! To me, that alone is worth $4,900 all day long!

Clean the wax out of your ears and appreciate what Ketron has put together for us keyboard musicians.

If you play professionally, it doesn't matter if you do your own sequencing, play midi files, mp3's, styles or whatever. Your audience doesn't know the difference anyways.

However they will recognize the quality of sound. You get what you pay for with the AUDYA, PERIOD!

Jim

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#284666 - 04/06/10 12:03 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Jim,

just curious as to what you used b4 AUDYA?

i currently use a mix of Roland G-70 and Ketron XD-3, but prefer the "live" factor the audience brings to my music,
Ketron sounds like a real band...much more than Roland IMO
but there are styles i prefer on Roland, but not that many :-)



[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 04-06-2010).]

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#284667 - 04/06/10 12:14 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Jim...you have absolutely nailed it. If your audience notice the improvement you know the manufacturer got it right.

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#284668 - 04/06/10 12:29 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
What surprised me is that none of you actually NOTICED it was an SMF. I would have thought here of all places...

However, I must disagree with those that say that using an SMF takes LESS skill than style mode. It all depends on what you are actually PLAYING, and whether you are burning up a two fisted piano part, or doing your best Jan Hammer fusion licks, or holding down both the comps AND the lead lines (none of which you can do in style mode), just because they are over an SMF doesn't negate the skill it takes to play them.

There are some that think that, just because they are holding down ONE chord, and then playing a single line melody over the top, but the MACHINE is doing all the skilled playing, that it's actually THEM playing it! Sorry to burst your bubble...

I agree that Messier COULD have made the SMF from style play (probably did in part because of the live drums), but don't discount what he was playing on the top. Pretty much all of it (the good bits, at least) took two hands to do, and couldn't have been played at all with one hand tied up doing the LH chord input... Style mode takes skill, sure. But don't get high and mighty because someone eschews it to be able to perform better than you can with one hand.

The more I hear the Ketron live, the more I'm impressed with it. Sure, other arrangers might have it beat in a few areas, SA2, tonewheel sound, piano sound (a bit), but there isn't ONE of them that comes this close to the drums and bass. Not one...

My primary concern with the Audya these days (other than getting Lee and Tony to go bug the hell out of an ACTUAL Ketron forum and leave us the hell alone ) is that I don't do Euro-styled music or Latin, and would want styles specifically for the US market with the wonderful live drums. And let's face it, Ketron's follow-up to the SD-1 and SD-5 hasn't exactly been swimming with new live drum styles of ANY kind, let alone those good for US dancers. Past performance is always an indicator of future performance, and Ketron haven't exactly shone in that department. As I've said many times, Live drum styles are a double edged sword. They are SO good, you are not going to be happy using non-Live drum styles. So this puts the burden on the style MAKERS (those with the skill to make great audio styles) to keep making more of them, and to cover gaps in their musical genres that are popular in the US (if they want our business, that is) and other countries.

At least with a MIDI only arranger, third party or even new factory styles are going to sound VERY similar to the ROM ones (at least in tone). But I doubt that anyone is going to be making first rate Live Drum styles that don't simply re-use the existing patterns. And even if they DO, there's going to be a need for extraordinary care in making the drum sound match the ROM styles VERY closely. Unlike a MIDI style, you can't go in there and turn down the kick, or turn up the snare, or make the tom-toms more bright.

In my mind at least, there is no doubt that the Audya's live styles are head and shoulders beyond what anyone has currently achieved with a MIDI arranger. That is its' strength, but unfortunately, its' weakness, too...

(Sure wouldn't mind Tony's one nice and cheap after he messes it up and start to blame everybody ELSE for whatever problems he's going to find in OS4, though! )

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#284669 - 04/06/10 12:33 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
rphillipchuk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 570
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
You missed my point..I don't want to demean SZ,


I should have explained myself better.....I was not trying to show disrespect... I was just wondering, what and who are the "biggies", as far as forums like "SZ"...

I, among others here, have spent a lot of time here, and somehow we forget that there are other Forums too....Just wondering.....

Perhaps this should be be another thread !!!... Sorry !!!



------------------
createsongstyles.com
fakesheets.com

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#284670 - 04/06/10 12:45 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Nice post Diki.

I would like to hear more about what you want from a keyboard in the way of styles for the USA though. I know ketron are trying hard to make the Audya appeal more to Anglo American musicians rather than just their traditional European market.

Maybe start a new thread marked 'Diki's wish list?' and link to some songs on youtube for me to listen to.

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#284671 - 04/06/10 01:08 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I think some DEALERS might be a good start... If I've got to drive over a thousand miles just to try one out (and heaven help me if there is a technical problem), at the price these are, getting a second one for backup is completely out of the question.

If I revolve my entire show around one piece of gear, it's got to be bomb-proof AND relatively easy to get a backup if it goes down. Ketron's US Dealer locater is a joke. Several states are completely missing (not sure how those in La. and Miss. feel about that!) and many of the states actually listed have no dealer at all. And most of those states are bigger than whole COUNTRIES in the EU

Ketron need to make up their mind. Do the WANT to be here or not? The way things are right now, they had better be building the most reliable piece of gear ever made...

Until Ketron make a REAL effort to penetrate the US market (and that's probably going to have to include allowing the dealers to have the same markup on Audya's that they have on other arrangers), it seems kind of pointless acting as if making styles for us is going to make any difference. Sure, I'd love a bunch of real Cajun, Zydeco (they AREN'T the same thing!), reggae, country (NOT European country!), alternative rock, emo, southern rock, New Orleans Mardi Gras styles, not to mention hiphop and rap and MODERN R&B.

Include them, but keep the dealers a thousand mile drive away, and it's still unlikely you are going to worry Yamaha or Korg in the least...

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#284672 - 04/06/10 01:10 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
The more I hear the Ketron live, the more I'm impressed with it.


i think i see an AUDYA in your future Diki,
if we can only get enough "American" styles in it to be useful for you :-)

to start, what may help is for example to:

list 10 songs that the AUDYA CANNOT play with it's abundance of internal styles, that perhaps other manufacturers (ie. Korg, Roland, Yamaha) CAN play.

and then, PERHAPS someone can start programming/developing/tailoring AUDYA with "American" styles.

i'm curious as to what styles specifically the AUDYA does not have that OTHERS do.

Diki, which styles?
which songs would you like (or rather) would NEED AUDYA to be able to play ?

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#284673 - 04/06/10 01:31 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
NiteLife Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 264
Loc: Cape Coral, Florida USA
To Leezone: Just prior to the current Audya & Tyros 3, I played a Korg PA80 and a Yamaha PSR 3000. The Korg served me very well for many years. It is still in service, I use it at home once in a while. The PSR 3000, I felt was a GREAT Arranger for the money. I had a lot of fun playing that machine. I sold it to my previous partner. He uses it in his home studio, and enjoys making his own tracks to play and sing with.

Prior keyboards included a Technics KN-5000, a Roland G-1000, a Roland ep-9 with a Kurzweil piano module midi in, a PSR 6700, a Korg I-5 and going way back a Roland E-20. Even further back, a Lowrey Symphonic Theater Organ which I played for 13 years. All 550 pounds of it. Also owned and played a Wurlitzer Theater organ and 2 Hammond's. A B-3 and a L-100 model and a Gulbranson. Still have the Wurlitzer and the Hammond L-100.

I've probably missed a couple other keyboards in there somewhere.

In our local music store, I tried out the Korg PX2Pro, but felt it wasn't that much of a sound improvement over my PA80. The latest Rolands, I haven't played. I was very disappointed in my G-1000 so I didn't keep up with the Roland's except seeing video's on YouTube.

I bought my Audya without ever playing it. My decision to buy was based only on internet research. Both the Audya and Tyros3 are winners in my book.

Jim

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#284674 - 04/06/10 01:35 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Jim,

BUT if you could HAVE and USE only 1,
which would it be? T3 or AUDYA? :-)

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#284675 - 04/06/10 01:50 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:

which songs would you like (or rather) would NEED AUDYA to be able to play ?



Thanks for the style lis Diki...I am with leezone, it would be good to HEAR some songs that you like. I have an AUDYA5 at home tonight so i can have a see if the styles are on it.

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#284676 - 04/06/10 01:59 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
so i think this is the approach,

rather than bitch on what styles AUDYA lacks,

let's get some REAL examples,

what songs we need?

let's come up with style types, song names, and ASK Ketron, or any other talented programmers to make them.

the tools are there, the sounds are there, we just need to spend the time... :-)

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#284677 - 04/06/10 02:02 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
That's the problem with being so far away from one to try for any length of time. POSSIBLY I might be able to use styles already aboard for some songs, etc., but I'll never know from a simple style list. And I'm not brave enough to buy one on spec, even at a reasonable price.

Personally, I think that Ketron have missed a great opportunity. By going high price, low volume, they have essentially relegated the Audya to Wersi-like unavailability (and look at what happened to THEM), whereas, if they slashed their margins and dropped the price to something closer to what most of us ARE willing to pay (probably sub-$3500 in the US, street), I can't honestly think of a single person looking at a new arranger NOT wanting one. And 100% of the market, even at a low margin is better than 1% of the market with a high markup.

Ask Wersi...

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#284678 - 04/06/10 02:02 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
i don't play too much American,
but as far as Latin, Portuguese, Brasilian go...

creating just 1 style allows me to play MANY songs using the same 1 style,

so perhaps if we can get Ketron to create 10 "American-Diki" styles we can use them for LOTS of songs

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#284679 - 04/06/10 02:06 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
if they slashed their margins and dropped the price to something closer to what most of us ARE willing to pay (probably sub-$3500 in the US, street), I can't honestly think of a single person looking at a new arranger NOT wanting one. And 100% of the market, even at a low margin is better than 1% of the market with a high markup.



i AGREE with you Diki 110%

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#284680 - 04/06/10 02:08 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
NiteLife Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 264
Loc: Cape Coral, Florida USA
The Audya would be my choice. I have to head off for work right now.

I'll elaborate on my choice and post later.

Jim

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#284681 - 04/06/10 02:08 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by NiteLife:
Hi Guys, I realize I'm a newcomer to this forum as a member, however I have followed it for years. I can't help but chuckle to my self reading some of your posts.

It seems to me the discussions and what seems like arguments are between the Audya or other Ketron product owners, and the NON Audya or other Ketron product owners! What I read about the Audya from the NON Audya owners the most is about the PRICE. Features and Benefits for the money! I say:

If you can't afford this incredible piece of technology quit slamming it and talking about how you can accomplish the same thing for far less money doing this or doing that! The bottom line here with the Audya is the quality of sound, what your ears hear coming out of this machine.

The authenticity of the instruments is unmatched by any other keyboard I've ever heard or played. Just listen to the Swing Trumpet for example, Ketron should have installed a spit valve on this keyboard! Thats just one example, the list of just as good is quite extensive on this machine. They will even be better, ( I can't imagine )with the upgrades included in OS4.

In the almost 40 years I have been playing professionally, I have NEVER EVER had so many compliments come from my audience's! To me, that alone is worth $4,900 all day long!

Clean the wax out of your ears and appreciate what Ketron has put together for us keyboard musicians.

If you play professionally, it doesn't matter if you do your own sequencing, play midi files, mp3's, styles or whatever. Your audience doesn't know the difference anyways.

However they will recognize the quality of sound. You get what you pay for with the AUDYA, PERIOD!

Jim


I am not saying I can't afford an Audy. That's not my point. That thing is much to expensive for what it delivers. Even if I had the money I wouldn't buy one. I would spend my money for something much better like a arranger with a workstation. And if you think a Korg PA2XPro doesn't sound much better then a Korg PA80 then you clean the wax out of your ears.

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#284682 - 04/06/10 02:09 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Diki,

you are starting to think like me :-)

you are falling in love with the AUDYA sound
and are wishing it was a whole lot cheaper :-)

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#284683 - 04/06/10 02:13 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
now we just have to get Nedim to fall back in love...

Nedim, you used to love and praise it... :-(

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#284684 - 04/06/10 03:33 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:
Diki,

you are starting to think like me :-)

you are falling in love with the AUDYA sound
and are wishing it was a whole lot cheaper :-)


I'm just not whining about it incessantly, and posting thread after thread asking stupid questions of people that have no idea what the answer is, that's all...

Always DID like the Audya sound, said so from the day Demo #1 was posted. But there's a LOT more to the issue than just the sound. Maybe I don't care whether it has USB1 or USB3, being of a more practical nature than you, but I'm still concerned about the issue of how well the audio and MIDI guitar chords blend together, how well supported the future new Live drum styles are going to be (past performance isn't exactly inspiring), how well supported the US market will be for service and repair (let alone even auditioning one), and things of a practical nature.

But I'm NOT going to post ten times a day asking the same and related questions to people that have NO IDEA what the answer is, don't CARE what the answer is, and are getting VERY mad at me for doing so even when asked to stop

But don't let that stop YOU...

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#284685 - 04/06/10 03:44 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Diki, I was genuine about asking you to post some examples of songs - I have an Audya5 at home tonight with some of the new styles on - not all of them. I wondered if there is anything on it that would be suitable.

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#284686 - 04/06/10 04:37 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Anything by Marley. Anything by Tosh. No 'fake' reggae for me, please! But no styles that are clones of ONE tune. Useless for anything else. This is the problem with using players that are good, but unfamiliar with the 'style'. You end up with clones, and they are only good for the one song. Takes real skill to make a style that works across a wide range of songs...

Anything by the Neville Bros. Anything by the Meters. REAL New Orleans, not fake Dixieland, and CALL it New Orleans! Second Line. Parade beats.

Something that does Springsteen or Tom Petty well. Maybe something along Allman Bros. lines. Lynyard Skinyard, James Bros...

MODERN country, not Waylon and Willy and the boys..! Keith Urban. Kenny Chesney. Carrie Underwood. Nickle Creek bluegrass, not 50's style.

Zydeco. Anything by Buckwheat Zydeco, Boozoo Chavis, that sort of thing. GOTS to have a washboard, or it ain't Cajun of Zydeco!

Modern alt rock bands like the All American Rejects, Killers, etc..

And we haven't even SCRATCHED the surface of modern hiphop, rap, crunk, stuff the kids like...

That give you a start?

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#284687 - 04/06/10 05:33 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Anything by Marley. Anything by Tosh. No 'fake' reggae for me, please! But no styles that are clones of ONE tune. Useless for anything else. This is the problem with using players that are good, but unfamiliar with the 'style'. You end up with clones, and they are only good for the one song. Takes real skill to make a style that works across a wide range of songs...

Anything by the Neville Bros. Anything by the Meters. REAL New Orleans, not fake Dixieland, and CALL it New Orleans! Second Line. Parade beats.

Something that does Springsteen or Tom Petty well. Maybe something along Allman Bros. lines. Lynyard Skinyard, James Bros...

MODERN country, not Waylon and Willy and the boys..! Keith Urban. Kenny Chesney. Carrie Underwood. Nickle Creek bluegrass, not 50's style.

Zydeco. Anything by Buckwheat Zydeco, Boozoo Chavis, that sort of thing. GOTS to have a washboard, or it ain't Cajun of Zydeco!

Modern alt rock bands like the All American Rejects, Killers, etc..

And we haven't even SCRATCHED the surface of modern hiphop, rap, crunk, stuff the kids like...

That give you a start?



I got distracted...but yep...thanks for that

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#284688 - 04/06/10 08:56 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Diki,

sorry for my ignorance on "your" type of music
i'm more of folk/latin musician

but...
is there ANY arranger NOW, that can successfully/accurately play ALL these types of songs/artists to YOUR satisfaction?

can the G-70 do it?

i mean it would be great if the AUDYA could satisfy everyone's tastes,
but to expect it to play ALL types of music, when NO OTHER arranger can is a bit unrealistic wouldn't you say?

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#284689 - 04/06/10 09:07 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39530
Loc: NJ
lee dont fret....I don't know any of the songs dicki mentioned either or do I play them on stage or do I know anyone around here who does either.....play what YOU like and enjoy the music. There are NO rules...good luck

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#284690 - 04/07/10 12:53 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Well, as long as Donny's never heard of it, it MUST be rubbish, mustn't it?

Thing is, I'm listing music that is VERY American. Most of what Donny plays is likely to be played by Europeans, too, consequently he DOES have good styles for them.

But I wonder how he feels about the more obscure Latin styles? I bet I could name a dozen Latin stars he's never heard of either, but THEIR music is well represented by styles. Ketron make quite an effort to court the Latin music players, but seemingly little to address more obscure forms of American music (well, obscure to Donny, perhaps. I bet there's a LOT more people have heard of many of these than he thinks).

If what THEY play is important enough to make styles for them, why isn't US music?

BTW, Donny, if you've never heard of Keith Urban, Tom Petty, Carrie Underwood, The Neville Bros., Bruce frickin' Springsteen for Pete's sake (how can you live in NJ and not know HIM? ) perhaps you might quit doting on your moldy old doo-wop records and turn the RADIO on now and again?

You have to gasp at the monstrous ego of someone that, if it isn't something THEY play, they don't think it matters... Every single band in my area plays something by most of those artists. Don't know of ANYONE that does old Italian American standards, though. I guess by his standards, they don't need styles either.

"play what YOU like and enjoy the music. There are NO rules...good luck".... No rules other than what Donny thinks matters, anyway!

Enjoy what EVERYBODY plays, not just your own tiny niche...

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#284691 - 04/07/10 01:05 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
And to lee. No, sadly, there isn't much in the way of styles for MUCH of that. Not just the Audya, but pretty much ALL arrangers are styled by Europeans, for Europeans. But they make an effort for the Latin players, they make an effort for the Middle Eastern players, they make an effort for the Asian players, but somehow, American music (other than dated styles from the seventies and before, which are popular in Europe) is pretty much ignored.

There is much criticism made of many manufacturers' Latin styles. Few other than Ketron seem to get it right in the eyes of those actually PLAYING Latin TO Latin audiences. Why isn't there as much criticism of bland, out of date and stylistically inaccurate AMERICAN styles? Or of whole genres of popular music (popular except in NJ, perhaps!) almost completely missing from the style lists..?

The horse has GOT to come before the cart... You can't say you don't make good American styles because Americans don't buy many arrangers. Americans don't buy arrangers BECAUSE you don't make good styles for them...

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#284692 - 04/07/10 01:11 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
"Deja Vu all over again".



chas

PS: I love family reunions.
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#284693 - 04/07/10 01:11 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5645
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
.

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 04-07-2010).]
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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