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#274171 - 10/21/09 03:28 PM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:

I don't know about that 'Northern Hammond' though, I think Ian just made that up .



It came with a free set of mittens and mukluks.

Actually I learned to play organ on a Northern Hammond CV, back when I used to go to church...around 12 years old, I guess.

The organ had four tone cabinets...they weren't Leslies, and several years ago, we rescued the organ from the church basement, and a buddy of mine, Ray MacKay, restored it, and it now sits in his living room. He has it hooked up to a Leslie 122.

It has the full AGO pedalboard.

It looks a lot like a C-3, but I don't think it has percussion.


There was also a model based on (or at least, looked like) the B-3.

Ray also has my old Hammond M-3, and it's been restored as well.



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-21-2009).]
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#274172 - 10/21/09 03:36 PM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
pasadoble Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 218
Loc: Portsmouth, England.UK
Hi Ian

My Hammond initiation came at age 15 when after playing piano for 6 years I got a chance to play a T202 spinet in a local bar and got offered a job playing 3 nights a week straight away, did that for 2 years then picked up another full timer playing a T500 with 145 leslie, I used to love the valve & oily woody aroma coming from the Leslie and the full spin draft was cooling on hot evenings. Played all manner of Hammonds since then and use NI B4 on gigs nowadays but still have old L100-P in storage...In those days everything was YOU playing...no tricks or gimmicks and sadly real Hammond playing is a dying art

Another great Hammond player was Roy Philips from 60's UK group The Peddlers give this a listen..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyzZV-vpGGI

Rgds
Noel




Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Sitting on the bench in front of a B-3 or C-3...nothing compares.

You "played" a clonewheel, but you "rode" a Hammond.

I had a 1957 Hammond B-3 with two Leslie 147 RV (reverb) cabinets...I wasn't popular with the other guys in the band when it came time to move gear, but they all said it was worth the aggravation for that "sound" that nothing else quite duplicates.

Even the key feel is very hard to replicate on a clonewheel, although Hammond-Suzuki is pretty close, even to the type of contacts under the keys.

I had an M-3 at first, with one Leslie 122, but I lucked into the B-3 (and Leslies) that was only used in a home, and was given a coat of Pledge once a week.

Those were the days, my friend.





[This message has been edited by pasadoble (edited 10-21-2009).]

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#274173 - 10/21/09 03:52 PM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
That's a cool picture, Noel...I don't have any pics of me at the B-3...might have one with the M...got quite a few with other older gear...I should have a look.

I had a Hammond T-262 Spinet, which was a church model(locking top) for a short while, before I got the M-3...the T was transistorized, and didn't sound nearly as warm as the M-3 with it's tube amp.

The T also had a built in Leslie with a rotating drum made from cork, I think.

The T also had a fluorescent light over the keys, that used to wreak havoc with some places we played(buzzed like a bee).

I think the T-262 is at my friend Ray's place as well....he was the Hammond fixer back then.

The Hammond was the king, especially for R&B...Farfisas didn't quite cut it...screechy little buggers, they were.
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#274174 - 10/21/09 03:53 PM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
Ian, your picture reminds me of the pre-B3 series; this could be a CV or an RT-1. The RT series used the AGO pedalboard while the A,B and C's used the 25-note pedalboard. The 2 (C2) series did not have percussion; that came in with the 3 series

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 10-21-2009).]
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#274175 - 10/21/09 04:01 PM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
There's a bit about the Northern Hammond here, Cassp.
http://zk3.hammondforum.com/archives/1997.03.march/msg00486.html

I'm pretty sure the one I played, did not have harmonic percussion...I believe my friend Ray, added it, with some kind of kit.
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#274176 - 10/22/09 02:39 AM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
trevorjohn Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 225
Loc: Cambridge United Kingdom
A bit late to come into this one I know, but I keep well away from onions, green or otherwise. They tend to make me cry and that don't go down too well with the audience. As for Hammonds, UGH. Give me my trusty old BonTempi any time.

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#274177 - 10/22/09 04:40 AM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
pasadoble Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 218
Loc: Portsmouth, England.UK
Think of a aged Hammond Tonewheel as you would a classic car from back in the days when things were made totally by hand and not the mass produced 'peas in a pod' we have today...there's room for the Bontempi's in the world but don't deride one of the most amazing musical inventions of the 20th century.

Rgds NJ


Quote:
Originally posted by trevorjohn:
A bit late to come into this one I know, but I keep well away from onions, green or otherwise. They tend to make me cry and that don't go down too well with the audience. As for Hammonds, UGH. Give me my trusty old BonTempi any time.

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#274178 - 10/22/09 06:12 AM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
--Mac Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
Here is a bit of a tidbit for you:

Booker T recorded the original Green Onions cut on a Hammond "M" series "schpinette" organ.

No Leslie.

Mic'd from the back of the open backed organ cabinet, which featured a single 12 speaker facing forward into the players legs.

What many think is the sound of a Leslie is actually the Hammond scanner circuitry at work.

Someone in this thread talked of "dusty switch contacts". Do you think those 9 contacts per key were dusty when the organs were brand new? They weren't. But the key click was something that the circuit exhibited, a "problem" that Laurens Hammond worked to eliminate for years, even though it was one of the big selling points of the organ.

One thing I've noticed time and time again -- those who have little to no experience with the real thing, be it Hammond organ or Acoustic Grand Piano or whatever, don't seem to be able to deliver a convincing performance using one of the clones. Those of us who have years of experience on the tonewheel organs almost instinctively know what sounds like one and what doesn't -- and avoid doing the things that don't sound correct. The same sort of thing applies to guitar amplifier simulators, too. A person dialing in a Rectifier amp sim that has never really ever played a true Rectifier amp in the first place won't be able to tell if the simulation is doing what is expected or not. Likely is the case that music will change accordingly as it always has, to meet the technology.


--Mac
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"You don't know what you like, you like what you know. In order to know what you like, you have to know everything." --Branford Marsalis

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#274179 - 10/22/09 06:16 AM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
--Mac Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
Another tidbit:

When Booker T and the MGs recorded Green Onions, they were actually doing a cover tune.

Here is Harry James and his orchestra performing Green Onions back in 1955:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvBXKCFiZnI

Check out the rather tasty tube Wurly piano solo on this cut, someone was kneeling at the alter of Ray Charles for sure...

(Those in the know should notice the use of a famous Art Tatum device at both the beginning and end of that solo, too. A key of G Major Art Tatum device. Many of Art's devices were key signature oriented, Art was the master of letting the kayboard do what it does best in a given key. Real fast. )


--Mac




[This message has been edited by --Mac (edited 10-22-2009).]
_________________________
"Keep listening. Never become so self-important that you can't listen to other players. Live cleanly....Do right....You can improve as a player by improving as a person. It's a duty we owe to ourselves." --John Coltrane

"You don't know what you like, you like what you know. In order to know what you like, you have to know everything." --Branford Marsalis

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#274180 - 10/22/09 06:31 AM Re: How do YOU play Green Onions?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by --Mac:
Here is a bit of a tidbit for you:

Booker T recorded the original Green Onions cut on a Hammond "M" series "schpinette" organ.

No Leslie.

Mic'd from the back of the open backed organ cabinet, which featured a single 12 speaker facing forward into the players legs.

What many think is the sound of a Leslie is actually the Hammond scanner circuitry at work.



Could it be that Booker T. just didn't have a Leslie at hand when this tune was recorded, so they did the next best thing, and mic'd the speaker?

The scanner vibrato, sometimes called, chorus vibrato, on my M-3 sounded remarkably like a Leslie on "fast"...my Leslie died one night, and I plugged the organ into my Twin Reverb (that was being used for my Polymoog and Wurlitzer piano)...the organ used a pre-amp/switch floor device to get to the Leslie, so I had a 1/4 jack cord coming from the organ, enabling me to go into the Twin.

It didn't sound half bad with the Chorus Vibrato switch in the "on" position, but it was pretty lifeless without it.

The other thing with Hammonds was that you had to oil them every so often, although a lot of them got by for many years without it...pretty tough instrument.

The M-3 was a nice Hammond, except for the shorter keybeds, and, of course, no presets, although the latter didn't matter that much, as I was always "shaping" the bars.

This thread brings back a lot of nice memories...stuff I haven't thought about in years.
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