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#268944 - 08/09/09 08:00 AM 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
sunny152 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 194
Loc: ap
I just picked up an L1 Model II and have been trying it out with my Tyros-3 keyboard.I find the Bose extremely clear, a little harsh, highs very crisp, lows a little weak and.....I miss stereo !!
I see the stereo effect with keyboards is a hot topic. I was wondering if 2 compacts, a stereo mixer would be a solution ?

Sunny

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#268945 - 08/09/09 08:12 AM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 12664
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Sunny,

First and foremost, congratulations on purchasing the Bose L1--it's a fantastic machine.

Next, are you using the ToneMatch mixer with the L1 Mod.II? If so, be sure to connect both the left and right output channels of the Tyros3 to the mixer, then set the EQs of both channels.

If you are not using the ToneMatch mixer, purchase an adapter plug that will combine both the left and right output channels of the T3 before plugging into the Bose input. This really adds a lot to the overall fullness and quality of the sounds.

When not using the ToneMatch, you'll need to EQ your keyboard's master EQ via the mixing console. The settings, obviously, will vary, depending upon the configuration of the venues. You can save those settings to the User area(s) and recall them as EQ presets at any time. Once recalled, the global EQs will remain until you decide to change them.

Hope this helps,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 08-09-2009).]
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#268946 - 08/09/09 08:31 AM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2049
Loc: Texas
Sunny,

What a timely post. I bought 2 Bose Compact L1s about 5 months ago. I also own a Bose Classic L1. I have not used the Classic on gigs since buying the compacts. Today however I have some spare time and a newly accquired Roland E50 and decided to set up my Bose Clasic L1 with it to see how it would sound.

Well, first the setup time alone with the Classic is a pain compared to both compacts and the sound is just about the same. So much so that few but the very well educated would tell a difference. Second, the Classic takes up much more floor space than the Compact if that is important.

I am keeping my Classic to use at the house with whatever keyboard I have setup at the time(I now have 3 of them). But I only take my compacts out for gigs. I can transport and setup 2 Compacts easier than a single standard size unit.

There is no doubt in my mind that you could technically measure differences between the larger units and the compacts. But few if any of your audience will tell a difference.

Gary is giving very good advice though about tweaking your keyboard's EQ. Once I got that issue resolved the Bose just blew me away. I often have to turn down the bass on both my Classic and the Compacts on gigs.

Good luck and keep us posted. Lots of people here who use Bose speakers and are great about helping.

Hammer

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#268947 - 08/09/09 05:10 PM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 539
Loc: Australia
Sunny, the Yamaha Keyboards are famous (infamous?) for not summing to Mono "clearly" in regards to the Bose System. ***

You'll find a lot of help regarding this at the Bose Forums, but in general I agree completly with what Gary said. Things will be easier with a Tonematch, but it's not a necessity. If you ARE using a Tonematch, don't forget to experiment with the Tonematch presets (I suggest "General Keys").

It sounds like you've only recently purchased the system, so don't forget there's a learning and adjustment process with ANY new equipment.


*** I'm not trying to diss Yamaha Keyboards or Yamaha as a Brand, or make fun of anyone using Yamaha equipment in general here guys, but go ahead and make an indignant "Yahama-rules-and-you're-an-idiot" post in reply to mine if you want.....
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#268948 - 08/09/09 09:37 PM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
--Mac Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
Just personal preference, but I'd go with two Compacts in true stereo any day over the alternative.

If Mo Bass was needed, I'd think about adding somebody's separate subwoofer, powered with built in crossover, for those larger venues.


--Mac
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"Keep listening. Never become so self-important that you can't listen to other players. Live cleanly....Do right....You can improve as a player by improving as a person. It's a duty we owe to ourselves." --John Coltrane

"You don't know what you like, you like what you know. In order to know what you like, you have to know everything." --Branford Marsalis

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#268949 - 08/10/09 12:32 AM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by hellboy44:
Sunny, the Yamaha Keyboards are famous (infamous?) for not summing to Mono "clearly" in regards to the Bose System.


I am still waiting to see if someone will EVER truly prove or disprove this once and for all. There are several ways for an externally summed signal to change compared to the internally summed (gain structure, EQ's even if not engaged, output eq's, etc.). But I'd sure love to see a recording of the stereo out, summed to mono in a DAW compared to the same file summed to mono internally and recorded mono. (Only way to prove it, IMO)

Me, I just think the Yamaha pianos (especially) sum to mono very poorly, and it doesn't really matter much WHAT you play them on. Unless they are in stereo, they are going to sound pinched and phasey. You can possibly EQ a little externally to compensate a bit, but it is still there.

I haven't yet heard how loud the Compacts can go, and still stay clean (and not engage the built in limiter), but I HAVE pushed an L1 close to it's limits (pretty loud!). But all in all, unless you are doing live club work where you normally need a decent sized PA to get the floor pumping, I'd go for the two Compacts and preserve the stereo. Dealing with how much the sound changes in mono seems to be the determining factor. If Yamaha's sounds collapsed to mono more gracefully, it would be a tougher call, but those things are DESIGNED to work in stereo. Why hobble them?

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#268950 - 08/10/09 03:13 AM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 539
Loc: Australia
Actually Diki, I do remember you talking about this, and I'm surprised no-one has taken you up on the Experiment side of things to shed some light on the Yamaha Stereo to Mono issue before now....
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#268951 - 08/10/09 05:02 AM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
--Mac Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
I've never performed measurements, but my ears have always detected phase problems when the rather ubiquitous Yamaha Piano Samples are involved (which all sound rather alike, they must have sampled the same model C or something).

At any rate, the stereo pianos seem to blend better -- and sound more like a realistic grand piano -- when the two channels are amplified separately as vs summing to mono.

The blending of the two signal aources in the compressible medium of air takes advantage of the physical property of elasticity here and I think that is a factor. I also think one could write a thesis on the subject which could get rather deep rather fast if all the possible ramifications are investigated.

At that point, it is cheaper to simply move to true stereo amplification.

BTW -- when onstage I prefer to have a separate stereo keyboard amp and speaker system, fullrange, but leave the PA front as it was. The piano when amplified through the typical PA front, separated extreme stage L and R as most are, doesn't sound right to my ears either, unless you want your audience to perceive themselves sitting inside the world's largest grand piano, a listening situation of the absurd. Of course, the Bose Compact situation we are talking about can neatly sidestep that problem entirely as inherent in its design nature -- if you use two in stereo. I think the Compact, with its multiple drivers, does indeed impart a slight bit of its own phase situation, but that is part and parcel of what the design yields and certainly not detrimental for the live performance in the right sized venue. Of course I'd never use that system for audio reference or monitoring for recording, though, that'd be the kiss of audio death and a task for which the system was never designed nor intended to do.

--Mac
_________________________
"Keep listening. Never become so self-important that you can't listen to other players. Live cleanly....Do right....You can improve as a player by improving as a person. It's a duty we owe to ourselves." --John Coltrane

"You don't know what you like, you like what you know. In order to know what you like, you have to know everything." --Branford Marsalis

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#268952 - 08/10/09 05:56 AM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 539
Loc: Australia
Well there ya have it Sunny.

Buy 2 compacts or use another Brand of Keyboard...


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God I hate signatures.

BUT...

www.chi-chi.com.au

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#268953 - 08/10/09 09:23 AM Re: 2 Compacts or a L1 Model II ?
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2049
Loc: Texas
Sunny,

YOU GOT MAIL!

HAMMER

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