Thought this deserved it's own thread. I've got the anticipated responses to this in a sealed envelope
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail.html?CNTID=5038742&CTID=205500

It's surprising that the keyboard has less styles than the PSR-S900. That's the first time that Yamaha has given a new keyboard less onboard styles. I know that I can get a hold of the T3 styles.

If the keyboard only introduces a few new voices and no new features (except for mp3 playback which is great), then it's kind of like the PSR-2100. Remember there was the PSR-2000, and then the next year they came out with the PSR-2100 that only had maybe 12 new voices and pretty much nothing else? I was kind of foolish to buy it, but the Live!Piano that came with it sounded a lot better than the XG Piano.

So what are the new voices? Does it allow those expansion packs that they are now selling? Does it take samples like the T2 and T3?

Any new dedicated buttons? - like for vox harmonizer on/off?

Anything missing that was already on the S900, besides some styles?

You once posted some specs of a PSR-S950 that you got from someone. That keyboard had a real lot of T3 features like optional hard drive. I'm wondering if Yamaha is going to release that next year, just like they released the PSR2000 one year, the PSR2100 the next year, and then the quantum leap forward PSR3000. Maybe this keyboard is an interim keyboard.

Thanks!

Beakybird

Actually they haven't....there's more on the S910.

PSR-S900...Total 305 styles.

PSR-S910...total 322 styles....293 Pro + 29 session.

That wasn't good math on my part. Not many more styles, but a few.

Now one big question I have is what is the 1.4mb available flash memory for?

Beakybird

Isn't that for the user files?

Oh yeah. So that's a dud.

I was hoping that there would be dimm slots available like there are on the T3 for adding new voices.

The keyboard has the exact same layout as the PSR-S900 - I mean exact. The screen looks the same size, and the buttons all look like they're in exactly the same place.

17 new styles
20-30 new voices

Is it worth the upgrade for PSR-S900 owners. Last time Yamaha did a small incremental upgrade PSR-2000 upgraded to PSR-2100, the game-changing PSR-3000 came out, I believe the next year.

Given the bad economy, it would be hard for me to justify upgrading. I might upgrade one of my keyboards this time instead of both like I always do.

Beakybird



[This message has been edited by Beakybird (edited 07-17-2009).]

I'm not a Yamaha follower, but I haven't seen any reference to 'Pro' and 'Session' styles before. Can you outline what this is about please, Ian?

"Pro-styles" provide professional and exciting arrangements combined with perfect playability...they read all chords exactly the way they are played.


"Session-styles" automatically enrich the player's chords with additional color notes or even harmonic progressions. You may play a major chord, but the instrument plays it as a 6th or maj7th...it is similar in concept to the "virtual arranger" function that was on the PSR-730, and PSR-8000, for example.


"Basic-styles" cover a wide range of music while the arrangement is kept basic and generic, and therefore extremely versatile.

It would be hard to justify an upgrade if you already own an S900 in my opinion. Yamaha is a master of mimicking a previous model and giving the new one just enough add-on's in the hopes that the majority of PSR-S900 owners will indeed upgrade to the S910. Brilliance in the mind of Yamaha's way of thinking. Madness to those who will be debating on whether to upgrade from an S900 to an S910. Yamaha won't be sweating at all, nevertheless, the beads of sweat are already starting to develop on the foreheads of S900 owners if you ask me.

PS: I can help alleviate the angst for all of you S900 owners if you don't mind me giving you a little bit of advice. >> Everyone of you S900 owners should quit biting your nails and just get an S910. No more sweat to worry about on the forehead, no more biting the nails, no more constipation, no more deliberating.. just go out and get one, or in the case of Larry - two! And you're lives will all be back to serenity and calm again. Until the PSR-S920 comes out in a year or two, that is.

All the best,
Mike

I agree, Mike. I believe that those that will upgrade will be PSR-3000, PSR-2000, maybe those using a PSR-E303 or PSR-S500, and maybe even PSR-S700.

I don't think the S910 is aimed at the S900 user at all...I know, I'd happily remain using mine, although, I suspect I'll have an S910 on my sample account, once they are made available.

I don't need MP3 playback, nor do I have any issues with anything on the S900...even the screen suits me fine, and I already love the button layout and keybed.

I think only a few S900 users will upgrade.

I think we need to see whether there are any more SA sounds before we decide this is only a minor upgrade... So far, the specs don't display the same level of detail that the S900's page does. Perhaps there WILL be something substantial to justify the model change. I can't see Yamaha going to all this bother for just a few more styles...

Could be, Diki...I do see the obvious upgrades of better button visibility as important, and I am surprised there are no SA2 voices, although, I must say, the SA are perfectly fine by me.

If it has a lot more SA voices, which is not indicated in the preliminary specs, it might tempt a few S900 users (me included)...and surely, 3K, 2k users, and those wanting to upgrade from entry level instruments.

Like a few others, I find the S900's panel layout a bit easier to use than the Tyros3....I love the centrally located registration buttons, for instance.

Only change I'd like to see would be moving the DSP-Var/on/off buttons to the left side, or the ability to assign the mod wheel to those functions.

This looks more like the upgrade from the PSR-2000 to the 2100. For those who've been wanting an S-900 (and don't own it) would benefit from the S910.., but is it really worth the money in the upgrade for current S900 owners?

A good thing to take note of is the bump up in the S-710. They upped the poly to 128.., and I even see USB audio recorder on there too.., and added some S-900 voices to it.

Why in the world would they publish incomplete specs?

Maybe there is a lot more than they have published?

If so, I may add one to my setup. Or...maybe buy a S900 from someone upgrading?

Lee S.

Wait a second, I think I came across something significant.

The S910 specs do not specify what kind of new voices there are, but look at the total:

S900 = 891
S900 = 1186

If many of these 295 new voices are Cool!, Sweet!, Live!, and S.A. voices, then this is a game changer.

First, it would allow users of the new board to play T3 styles (which are available in cyberspace but don't work on the S900 because the S900 doesn't have the voices).

Second, it would give us lots of new voices for accompaniment and for styles.

I think the two most important reasons to upgrade an arranger are 1) access to new styles and 2) access to new voices. The other reasons are improvement in features and build quality.

As far as improvement of features, the S910 offers little new. The only things that come to mind are the mp3 player and the better screen.

As far as build quality, I doubt there are any improvements. You can see that the new keyboard is built on the same exact platform with the same exact buttons as its predecessor.

But if this new keyboard has lots and lots of Yamaha's best voices, then I am excited enough to maybe buy two of them.

Beakybird

Generally, a product's FIRST announcement doesn't have all the ad copy and detail specs that it gets by the time it ships for a while...

I am sure Yamaha will be all over this in the weeks to come.

I spoke with a friend who works at Yamaha today at the NAMM show. He tells me that the PSRS910 and 710 will be available in October. I also was told that the MAP price for the PSR910 will be $2199.00 which is substantially higher than the $1699.00 PSR900. I was also told that the Tyros3 has gone up another $400.00 bringing the MAP price from $3999.99 to about $4399.00. I'm not positive about these prices as these were not from a price sheet but rather from what he remembers being talked about.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

thanks for the info, george.
If the T3 is @ 4399.00 the audya price is starting to look cheap.



[This message has been edited by mc (edited 07-19-2009).]

It's Sunday morning and I just got off the phone with the marketing manager for Yamaha keyboards. He wanted to let me know that prices have not yet been finalized for the 710 and 910 but that delivery would be around October. They are on display at Yamaha's booth but no price information has been announced. Anything is pure speculation at this time. The Tyros 3's retail price has gone up as I stated.
He told me that both displays on the 710 and 910 have been improved. Although the 910 is smaller than the Tyros3, it has the same HD plasma look and the 710 has gone from that bluish color to a High Definition Black and Grey.
Also, the Super Articulation 2 sounds of the Tyros3 are included but no SA buttons are on the 910. However, just like the Tyros3, the voices react differently to your playing style and produce those amazing articulations when played with just the keys and not having to use the two buttons.
Yamaha added the ability to playback MP3's but the audio recording is still wavefile recording and you would need to convert to MP3 in a computer to playback what you've recorded on the 910 and 710.

------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Just got another call from Yamaha folks at the NAMM show. The retail price for the PSR910 will be $2299 with a map price that should be just about the same as the current PSR900 and the Retail price for the 710 will be $1399.00 with a MAP price about the same as the current 700. So, with the new sounds, MP3 playback, new screens and new styles, they are not raising prices but giving updated products.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Thanks for the information, George, and it is really good to know the PSR-S910 will have SA2 voices....looking better all the time.

So is this Yamaha's new policy, George? Raise MSRP, but keep MAP the same, to give customers the erroneous impression they are getting a greater bargain?

Surely their product line stands up without these cheap flim flam marketing tricks..? Or are we being set up so that the dealers can raise prices on us at whim (or when they smell a less savvy customer)?

But at least, thanks to you, we are aware what is happening, and our thanks go out to you for being frank with us. And it IS interesting to see that the SA2 voices have been reworked to function without those stupid buttons. I always felt that having to run to these all the time interrupts normal playing technique, especially for an arranger player whose LH is already tied up inputting chords and making variation and fill functions. Perhaps these new triggering modes can be added to the T3 as an update?

Steve Demming... you reading this?

I don't see any evidence that the SA2's are reworked. As George says above:
"However, just like the Tyros3, the voices react differently to your playing style and produce those amazing articulations when played with just the keys and not having to use the two buttons".

I can confirm you are able to cause articulations via how you play on Ty3 already - although not all (but then the missing good ones you should be able to play yourself ).
They might just leave the buttons off the PSR full stop.
On Ty3 the buttons are additionally assignable to pedals and it's not clear whether that facility is retained on the PSR. If it is all articulations will still be available via foot.

John

So does anyone know the breakdown of the 295 new voices?

How many Cool!, Sweet!, Live!, S.A., S.A.2, etc?

Beakybird

The T3 Already has keyboard implemented articulation of SA2 voices...for example to get the "roll up" of the sax (or clarinet etc) you just press the octave higher or lower while still holding the base key and no button push needed....Also there are three foot controllers which can be assigned to the SA2 articulations.....

George...please check to see if the SA 2 voice buttons functions are available via foot pedals on the S910.

Thanks,
Lee S.

I'm betting the S910 has only two pedal inputs, so if you're using one for sustain, then you will only be able to control one function of SA2.

I very rarely use the SA buttons on the Tyros3...usually only when multi-track recording...just the player's playing technique alone can work wonders with SA2 (and SA1) as far as expression.

Are you saying then that ALL the SA2 articulations can be performed without the buttons or footpedals as well as with them? This certainly does not seem to be the case from what I have seen of the Yamaha demonstrations. You have to remember, there is no multi pedal input on the PSR's, and there will be no SA2 buttons, and yet they have managed to put SA2 sounds in there (which, from all demos from Yamaha, seem to need them)....

If the PSR has SA2 sounds, but no controllers, it seems evident that Yamaha have found a way to trigger the articulations the same way the T2 did... from your playing, not from foot or hand gymnastics. All I was saying is that if Yamaha have figured out this, might it not be added to the T3's OS?

Well, if the newest S910 may have the same MAP price of the the current PSR 900, what's gonna happen to the price of the S900?? The S900 is being sold on e-bay, brandnew in box. Will its price drop because of the S910??

And, I'm still a bit confused... If MAP hasn't changed, then dealer cost hasn't changed. If dealer cost hasn't changed, why is MSRP changing?

I smell a price hike, guys...

MacMusic has an announcement with the MSRP for the S910 and the S710: $1999 for the S910 and $1399 for the S710. Otherwise, nothing new.
http://www.macmusic.org/news/view.php/lang/en/id/8269/

Beakybird

I think MAC MUSIC is incorrect with the MSRP for the 910 and correct for the 710. I spoke directly to the product manager for the arranger keyboard division while he was standing on the NAMM floor. I didn't attend NAMM but spoke over the phone. The retail price for both new models are exactly the same as the current ones. If you will recall, on February 1st of this year, Yamaha raised both the retail AND MAP for both the Tyros3 and the PSRS900. The MSRP for the current, but soon to be discontinued PSRS900 is $2299.00. The price quoted to me by the product manager for the PSRS910 is $2299.00. So, Diki, I don't see any change from the older model to the newer model. And the same thing goes for the PSRS710 as well. When Yamaha raised the price for the PSRS900, the MAP went up, the MSRP went up and the cost to dealers went up.
If the price MAC MUSIC is correct, then great, but I've now heard from 2 sources that the retail for the new model will not be going down. In fact, adding the new features and having the product be at exactly the same price is great I think.

------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Sorry, George... got confused by this post.

YES they can. I don't think anyone has clarified this up to this point, so I thot I'd throw in my experience with the T3. It will automatically add SA2 effects on its own. The 2 effects buttons are not absolutely necessary for triggering the SA2 effects - they do, however, allow the player to trigger them when he chooses to do so, rather than letting the kbd software decide.

I've also found that when one has control of the SA2 triggers, they can be over-used or used inappropriately, causing some strange and sloppy non-musical results.

I kinda like to allow the kbd decide where to throw them in. It's cool to hear it do its thing...but to each his own.

All that to say that the S910 without the 2 buttons can still shine on its own with the SA2 voices.

Hope I'm making sense here.
Tim

Making great sense, Tim. Thanks for pointing that out. No-one else had even mentioned this ability.

In fact, to be honest, very few are saying much about the T3 at all, or posting much music, especially compared to when the T2 was released. It would be great to hear some user demos and impressions of how the new Yamaha is working out. When basic information as this slips by, it just seems that few are giving much time to telling us all about it...

Perhaps they are just enjoying playing too much to have the time?

Actually, Diki, there are quite a few Tyros3 users putting up tunes on the Yamaha based forums, like YPKO and others.

Tim is correct about the SA2 buttons. I rarely use them when playing...just a slightly different technique does wonders...even the SA1 voices are like that...legato vs staccato etc.

I just sold two Tyros3's this past weekend, so they are still moving quite well.

I expect the new CVP 5-series Pianos won't be too far away either, and they will offer SA2 and probably won't have the buttons.

Ian

Thanks, Ian... Yes, I know that the Yamaha sites get a lot of this, but I was merely commenting that the SZ forum has had little buzz on the T3 compared to the T2... We have probably had more Audya info and chatter here than T3, and I KNOW there's a LOT more T3 owners here than Audya

Come on out of your shells, guys..!

OK so it seems my previous post on SA2 voices was universally missed.

Here's a revamp with some changes:

....................................

Originally posted by Diki:
And it IS interesting to see that the SA2 voices have been reworked to function without those stupid buttons. I always felt that having to run to these all the time interrupts normal playing technique, especially for an arranger player whose LH is already tied up inputting chords and making variation and fill functions. Perhaps these new triggering modes can be added to the T3 as an update?

Steve Demming... you reading this?
.........................................

JW's comments:
I don't see any evidence that the SA2's are reworked. As George says above:
"However, just like the Tyros3, the voices react differently to your playing style and produce those amazing articulations when played with just the keys and not having to use the two buttons".

It's true you are able to cause articulations via how you play on Ty3 already -

Although NOT ALL.

But one or two are not that musically attractive to want to use IMO and in other cases - who really needs automatic short to medium retriggered (as opposed to seamless) gliss's and grace notes when you can play them yourself?
The ones that trigger via playing are more attractive though. It's a pity they do not adapt more to the playing conditions than they do - so you can gliss or bend through ranges of notes, not just a seventh or octave.

On Ty3 the buttons are additionally assignable to pedals and it's not clear whether that facility is retained on the PSR. If it is articulations will still be available via foot and if only 1 pedal of the two is assignable it's not a great loss IMO.
The SA2 implementation isn't flexible enough to emulate all the slippery slidy stuff that Benny Goodman was famous for anyway.

John

Hi Diki
How the SA2 works is explained in the Yamaha demo video (Including how the button use is purely optional)
http://www.4shared.com/file/64996849/7f0def9c/Part_4.html

Hope this clarifies for you
Regards

Bill

Thanks for all the clarifications...

I look forward to finding out which SA2 voices got ported to the PSR, and how they work. Pretty exciting stuff, overall... kind of makes you wonder if the S910 isn't going to suck some sales away from the T3 if it has SA2 capabilities.

Now me, I'd be VERY interested in finding out if those new guitar NTT's from the T3 got ported too, as guitar emulation would be probably the primary reason I'd get an S910.

I noticed in the specs that the S910 has a larger FX selection for reverb chorus AND the inserts. Hope they got the T3's Leslie sim in there...

All in all, I'm pretty interested in the S910. I am considering doing some background restaurant work this winter, and I've said to Ian many times, were I doing that kind of gig, the Yamaha's, with their smooth compressed sound, might be the perfect axe for that situation. That, and a need for better guitar strumming patterns for my studio mockups seem to be pushing me to possibly get one. Don't lose your knickers... I am NOT going to ditch the G70, simply add the PSR in to the mix but it might be the right time...