Can you recommend a lightweight keyboard that has great piano and electric piano sounds? This will accompany my SD1.

Thanks for your input.

Gene

Check out the Yamaha P-85, and Casio Privia 320..both are around $600 and weigh around 25 pounds..

I see you wrote "lightweight synth". If it's a good lightweight synth you're looking for I suggest you have a good look at the new Roland Juno Di.

128 note poly
Fantom G sounds
**has that great Roland 88 Stage Grand Piano
USB File/Audio player
Mic input with effects AND vocoder (mic effects are even independent from the tone generator)
Very logical layout
FULL SOFTWARE EDITOR that edits parameters not available on the synth (puts patch editing at a more pro level with the sofware)
VERY LIGHTWEIGHT and (drum roll) Roland drops a Juno that runs on freakin batteries!

It's selling for $699 (not a bad price considering the poly, patch set, USB player, and mic input with vocoder.)

That's a great selection...

And maybe if you want a few more styles that the SD-1 might not have, a GW8-L might work for you, too. Similar great pianos and EP's, and a boatload of other great stuff, too.

ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/Videos/juno-d/videos.html

Juno D demoed here, not a good demo but gives you an idea of the board.

------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

PSR9000

Yeah..., the old Juno-D just had a price drop too. It's down to $499 (sounds are decent.., but not stellar as the Juno-D has been out since 2004). If you choose to get the older Juno D model make sure you get the Juno-D Le. The Le model has TWICE the rom of the Juno-D classic.

Here's a link for the NEWER Juno-Di model. Look at this new model as a Juno-D on STEROIDS. http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1022&ParentId=72

But not if you actually want to play the styles from another keyboard. The GW8 has NO NTA settings. You cannot trigger styles from an external keyboard. Shame really as the GW8 has some pretty good piano/ep sounds.

+1 for the Juno D/Di

Is he looking for an arranger or synth though? He posted "lightweight synth" in the title..., but if he's looking for a lightweight synth (and an arranger with good pianos and EP's) the GW-8 would go nicely with his other unit (as stated some limitations with the styles though).., but he'd be getting a synth and an arranger in one package that's lightweight...

I'll sell my Roland E50 for $1000.
DonM

Well I'll let ya guys know about the Juno-Di. I ORDERED ONE TODAY They just went up for pre-order at Sweetwater today! The price and what all the Di offers was just way too good to pass on.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-08-2009).]

It would be interesting to compare the GW8-L's patch list and the JunoDi to see what's onboard. Thing that strikes me is that the expansion for the GW8 has as much ROM as the basic soundset... Looks like at least 1000 patches altogether, you might possibly be getting more ROM for your money with a GW8-L.

Given the layout (very similar) and look (ditto), I've got a sneaky suspicion that BOTH these products are based on the Sonic Cell engine. Similar specs polyphony and effects for both, etc..

It's just that double sized ROM that looks like a winner to me. I'd really want to test both side by side before I'd be willing to say the JunoDi has an edge...

BTW, Dennis, I realize that operating both together as an integrated arranger is difficult. Mind you, just about ANY arranger is pretty hard to set up that way, these days. PLEASE, if this is of any interest to you all (linking two different arrangers, and having them work as one), contact your manufacturers, and pressure them to adopt standardized codes for NTA, variation and fill selection, breaks, etc.. At present, even if the codes exist, they are all different from manufacturer to manufacturer. Hardly 'General MIDI' in any sense of the words!

Just checked the specs pages. JunoDi claims 64 M bytes (sic), GW8 claims 256MB (sic) ROM

Pretty significant, if Roland's figures aren't jazzed...

But he used 'lightweight keyboard' in the text...

I'm not going to give the Di the edge either. One's a budget performance synth and the other is a budget performance arranger. Major difference between the two though is the Di's software editor. Reports are saying the Di's sound set is based on the Fantom G.

Personally.., I'm with you on one thing Diki. I think the Di's gonna sound very "SoniCellish"... Not only that the software editor (at least the pics that have been shown for the Di's editor) Look almost (if not identical) to the SonicCell. The Di's software adds more editable parameters too. For example. The Di's panel is set like the Juno-D in that you get two tones/osc per patch. With the software editor it's bumped up to 4 tones/osc per patch. The LFO section in the software is VERY detailed too. Not too mention that using the software gives you access to a 3rd MFX. The keyboard itself gives you two MFX per patch/perform.., and the software editor adds an additional MFX. The editor is pretty impressive.

I gotta give it to Roland though. They're dropping budget keyboards with 128 note poly! The Di also has that Vocoder (along with the mic settings for singing). I know I'll be using that Vocoder

I'll wait until I get it.., then I'll check with members here to see if anyone's interested in seeing a review for it. Wish I had a GW-8L to do a side by side too.

Diki.., yes there's a big difference in the ROM size listed between the two boards. I think a big part of that is also that the GW8-L has that (L) in the title. There are numerous extra patches that would increase the ROM size for those latin specific patches. Not only that the GW has a better screen, and (although basic) a 16 trk sequencer.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-08-2009).]

Already did Diki.
The response from Roland was that they have NO intention of adding the NTA capability for either the Prelude or the GW8. Interesting also is they classify them as Synths and NOT arrangers, which is another reason they quoted for not including NTA, OR the ability to change patches in styles. Thats another thing that cannot be done on either the GW8 or Prelude.

Oh and they are the soundset from the Fantom via the Sonic Cell.

Dennis

Dennis, I have a feeing that nothing soon is going to happen... after all, Roland can't turn around and put a Standard Arranger set of codes in until there IS a 'Standard Arranger' set of codes! (I know NTA is a start, but we really need much more than this..). And Roland need to be told that, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it needs the OS of a duck, even if Roland (for marketing voodoo bullsh*t reasons) want to call it a swan...

And Squeak, even then, just like editing or creation sections of the OS, most likely more expensive members of the line will sport them. What do you expect for $699, anyway?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 07-08-2009).]

You can get Kurzweil's PC361.

Diki..., (unless it's too early and missed something) what do you mean "what do I expect for $699"? Did you not read my post where I said I just bought a Roland Juno-Di (pre-ordered)? I said nothing about any expections beyond something in the $699 price range. If you go back and read you'll see I'm agreeing with you.., and I even said that "I'm not going to give the Di the edge either".

In comparison with the GW-8L.., the GW's nearly $200 more.., and as expected considering it has a larger ROM, a sequencer, better screen, ect.

I've stated that for what all it does $699 is a bargain for the Di. I wouldn't have pre-ordered one if I didn't think it was.

Sorry, squeak... I guess the smileys didn't tip you off

Yes, I was just ribbing you a bit. Actually, I find both of those Roland's pretty amazing value for money, at those featherweight prices.

And, to be honest, I think I misdirected it at you, when it should really have been to Dennis, who would like remote control options on a sub-$900 arranger that unfortunately don't exist on even TOTL ones!

Sorry if I failed to get my intentions clear....

My bad man.., I read your response bright and early this morning and hadn't even had a cup of coffee yet. My brain's OS was still booting up for the day and I think a driver failed to load

I got some cool news today. Sweetwater informed me that I was the FIRST pre-order through them for the Juno-Di I take that as being WAY COOL considering Sweetwater's relationship with Roland.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-09-2009).]

No problem, mate. Haven't had my java yet myself

You know, I'd be fascinated to see if a Sonic Cell/JunoDi type editor would work on a GW8... Sys-ex is sys-ex, after all. Roland have a sneaky way of not documenting things that actually work, especially when sys-ex is concerned.

Diki you should see the software editor for this new Juno Di man! It's unreal and MILES ahead of the previous software editor for the Juno D/le. Reports are coming in that the software editor for the Juno Di expands the patch editing options of the synth and brings them up to Fantom level!

The software for the Di looks identical to the SonicCell too.

I don't know why Roland included that huge soundset for the GW8 and didn't offer the same software editor. It would be interesting to see if they worked together too because the GW8 would really benefit from that software editor.

Squeak

Where the f#@k did that come from!!! I never said anything of the sort!!!

I made no mention of "wanting" any function. I was pointing out the serious lack of BASIC functions on the GW and the Prelude.

I said simply that there was no NTA function and that you cannot change patches in the styles.

These functions that you seem to think are "higher functions" and therefore should not be on a "budget" keyboard are on pretty much EVERY other arranger regardless of price.

Oh and out here the GW7 is a + $2000 keyboard.



[This message has been edited by miden (edited 07-09-2009).]

You didn't mention voice editing, so consider the Yamaha PSR-S550B...a nice little arranger...a bit more loot than the GW-8, but it offers:

Keyboard: 61 Standard size keys (C1-C6) with Touch Response

Display: Large Backlit Black and White LCD (320 x 240 dots) displays notation, lyrics and chords

Voices:
- Total Number: 774 Voices+22 Drum Kits
- Compatibility: General MIDI (GM) & XGlite Compatible
- Piano Voice Quality: Stereo High Resolution
- Sweet! Voices, Cool! Voices, Live! Voices: Dedicated buttons
- Dual / Split: Yes / Left, Duel
- Drum Kits: 22 Drum Kits
- Polyphony: 64 Note

Auto Accompaniment:
- Styles: 176 styles
- Variations: 4- Variation A~D & Fill
- One Touch Settings: 4 per style
- Registration Memory: 8 x 8 Banks
- Music Database: 500 setups by song title

Digital Effects:
- Reverb: 36 types
- Chorus: 45 types
- DSP: 239 types
- Harmony: 26 types

Sequencer:
- 16 tracks to record your own songs (15 Melody + 1 Chord)
- 5 User songs +10,000 Notes

Real Time Control: Pitch Bend Wheel

Auxiliary Jack: Phones/Output, DC in 16V, USB to host (MIDI In/Out), USB to device (optional storage devices), Sustain

Amplifier: 12W + 12W

Speakers: 12cm x 2 + 3cm x 2

Power Supply: PA-300 Adaptor (included)

Dimensions (W x D x H): 37.2 x 15.8 x 5.1 in. (945 x 402 x 130 mm)

Weight: 16.5 lbs (7.5kg)

Just a thought...what price range are looking at?

You could be going anywhere from a GW8 to a Nord Electro3.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 07-09-2009).]

I guess the general spirit of 'lightening up' hasn't made it to Oz yet...

All I'm getting at, Dennis, is there is FAR more to linking two arrangers together than one of them having an NTA track. How do you deal with filtering PC#'s coming from the master (that might change styles, or patches, etc.)? How do you deal with triggering variations and fills, intros, endings, etc.?

I am curious... do you, at this point, actually run two arrangers from one keyboard yet? Or is it something that you would like to do, but haven't tried, yet? I have to confess, I've tried this in the past, and it's a total PITA. Even if you can get the NTA track to work, you still have to reach over to the secondary arranger for all Variation operations, sometimes they don't start together, or stop together, and you often need a computer between the two just to filter out controllers or PC#'s that do weird things to the styles...

All I was trying to point out is that an NTA track, by itself, isn't really all that useful. As to the GW8-L's lack of style editing, I have commented at length about that... The only way to edit styles is to turn them into SMF's, edit those, and turn back into styles. A terrible system, IMO. But, as I also said, for the VERY light price of the GW8, you get FAR more ROM than many similar priced arrangers with better MIDI implementations and onboard style header editing. I was just pointing out, at the low end of the price scale, it's all about compromise...

The main problem exists that each manufacturer implements arranger to arranger control (if they implement it at all) in a totally different fashion, and that most of the codes are hardwired. We need a Standard Arranger Code that would allow exactly what you want without the either major roadblocks for variation triggering, or current ultra basic NTA only transmission.

So.... which two arrangers have you linked together so far? I'd love to hear how well it worked for you.

Yes it worked rather well with an old E50 and a Yamaha S90es. Hitting the buttons was not that onerous, you could not do multiple quick changes but I could get by okay.

I never need to change anything else apart from variations, as all keyboard parts and tones came from the s90, and in fact sometimes all that came from the E50 was the drums.

The MOST important and most basic is an NTA and Roland for whatever dumb reason left it off. And no, the GW series are not the most budget, check out the pricing of some of the lower end Yamahas, and I believe even they can allow the arranger section to be played by an external keyboard.

This is like the time Roland released a new keyboard but reckoned no-one needed a sustain pedal socket.......so they left it off!!!! That was back in the early 90's I think.

And to claim the GW series are NOT arrangers (they are synths, according to Roland) so therefore do not qualify for NTA ability, OR patch changing. BUT they are being marketed as arrangers???

Only Roland. They sometimes do brilliant things, but then do really dumb things.

Truer words were never spoken...

I did not realize that you were talking about triggering from a WS. You had mentioned the SD-1 in your post. Yes, triggering from a WS is usually a LOT easier, as on most TOTL WS's, you can configure the buttons and knobs to send whatever MIDI you need to. The things are DESIGNED for flexibility.

But arrangers rarely have ANY kind of button, knob and slider MIDI flexibility... Heck, half the time, they don't send anything at all, and the rest of the time, it is hardwired codes that you can't change. This is what I find so frustrating. Yes, I can control my G70 from my K2500 (possibly the MOST flexible WS ever made), but I can't control an S900 from my G70

The thing that strikes me is, if you have to have the GW-8 close enough to get at the controls, it's close enough to actually PLAY

Yes sorry Diki, I should have been more specific. I have never tried running an arranger into an arranger, but I agree totally that there should be an easier way to link and control arrangers using the standard arranger control tabs.

Contact your manufacturer, contact your dealers, contact the reps... If this stuff is important to you (and who amongst us WOULDN'T like to link two different arrangers and have them work as one? ), make some noise. Put it on every piece of communication you ever have with your manufacturer, put it on polls, put it on all the forums...

Rather than make unacceptable compromises (what arranger doesn't have SOME kind of weakness?), linking two arrangers seems a no-brainer, not only for the user, but also for the manufacturers (they'll sell TWO arrangers for every one they do now! ). But it won't happen until everyone gets on board and lets them know...