Hey guys,
I had to chance to sit at the pa800 for a few hours.

Here is my old review from 2007 when i tried it while on vacation. It had the 1.0 operating system. As I reread my review I came to realize I was a little immature. I think I was quick to judge it as unfairly as I did.

Maybe a combination of people messing with settings while on store display and the fact of having the initial operating system and being uneducated on the korg pa caused my haste.

I have to say almost every complaint I had after spending a couple hrs with it are pretty much gone. I'm am strongly considering buying either the Pa800 or the PA2x. Any differences pros and cons would be helpful.

I pasted by previous review below to read. Again, I feel silly for talking out of my butt on some of these things as I reread it.

My biggest hesitation would probably be lack of 3rd party support. I'd love to hear some mp3 samples of some of the 3rd party avail.

Any other feedback would be great!


[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikey_maestro:
[B]Hey guys,

I on vacation here in sunny orlando, home of mickey. With all the great emails received I found a dealer (Discount Music)who has korg, yamaha arrangers. I finally was able to get my hands on a pa800 to try. I, as many of you have read recently bought a T2 last month. I bought it on just reviews and previous history with yamaha navigation and sounds.

I arrived at (discount music) was happily greeted by a manager, his name was Roman.
I told him I was visiting from boston and I was a T2 owner , contemplating purchasing a possible second board to use in conjunction with my Tyros2. He told me he had a PA800 and a PA1x pro. He immediately went and connected them side by side through a nice pair of powered studio monitors.

First impression, The Pa800 looks like a toy.
for some reason the blue color mixed with white buttons, silverish accents and grey speaker covers takes away from it looking like a pro board on the exterior.
before anyone thinks I'm bashing korg, I am a proud owner of a blue Korg Triton Extreme 61)The triton is a dark metallic blue with subtle grey accents.
Back too the pa800 we go. The one touch setting buttons took me about 20 seconds of hard looking to find. Thet are about the size of white tic tacs located right under the display screen, Which is smaller than the T2 screen and not even color to boot.

the style and sounds buttons are really cheap feeling and each button shares 2 styles or sounds using like an a/b button option. Yuck!!

The Keys, in my honest opinion are no better than the s900 key bed (not as nice as the triton extreme even) not sure how they would last over time.

The Styles:
Oh boy!!, this is where it gets worse beside the T2. My friends and fellow Musicians. the good styles are average at best!! The bad ones are just bad!!! A few of the rock styles offer a different feel than some of the T2 and wer ok, but the big band, pop, ballads, R&B, FUNK, are some of the worst and bland I've ever heard, I think my old Psr540 could hang with them. Anyone who said they were Punch and in your face may have been paid off by korg.

The songbook feature was very dull, not many factory songs included,they wer'nt decrypted, like the yamaha but i'm sure the correct names are out there. I know others have stated that the options on saving transpose and other stuff were nice but I didnt utilize them in my experiment.

There were a couple nice drum fills and a 3 count break button,. which was ok.

The Sounds/voices;
I'd love to know what voices korg was to outshine the Tyros 2 on. I tried some of the ones I use most often.

Piano - so so
organ- yuck and thin
sax- not even as nice as a $300 casio
brass- weak, weak , weak
guitar - try again
synth sounds - were descent
woodwinds- flute was fair, that was it
Sorry Korg Lovers!!

The speakers were ugly but sounded comparable to the S900.

There was no separate modulation wheel, the korg has one stick that does both. I want 2, sorry

Wrap up:
I tried the Pa1x pro shortly after. From reading the comparisons of people saying the pa1x pro was older technology, after the disappointment with the PA800. It was gonna be breif. However in my short time with the pa1x i did notice it's build quality was much better, the keys were a lot closer in quality to what i have on my T2.
The speakers were much louder and punchier than the PA800 they styles seemed similar for the most part.

My synth zone friends, "I wouldnt take 3 pa800's for my Tyros2 unless I could resell them on ebay rebuy my t2 and have a party with the leftover cash.

I hope i havn't upset any of you korg players, potential buyers please try them for yourself first, you may have a different opinion.

But I would like to give huge props to roman and his staff at discount music in orlando for being so friendly and helpful.

Another Dealer is Frank from Audio works in CT. I've spoke to him a few times, he is a great friendly smart guy. and his prices are excellent.



------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.jokevid..com
www.77bucks.com Affordable web design

I came to the same result as you did when I tried the Pa800. Not much better than the PA80. Good luck finding what you need.

Unless your entire repertoire is based around the ROM styles that come with your initial purchase of an arranger (and how many of us here are big schlager players? ), how well any arranger works for you is going to depend on two things... How much third party QUALITY styles you can get, and secondly, how easy it is to quickly edit ROM and third party styles to fine tune and create different styles.

Especially for us Americans, there are large musical areas either completely ignored or very under-represented in the style selection. Personally, I believe that this, rather than any cultural bias against arrangers, is what drives US sales so low compared to European levels. I mean, four PAGES of schlager and ONE Caribbean style? I don't know about you, but I don't use ONE schlager style. But I play a boat load (banana boat? ) of calypso, reggae and pop reggae tunes. Or same thing for country, zydeco and cajun, tejunto, folk, alternative, emo, and don't get me started about hiphop, contemporary R&B and rap

Without top notch third party support, and easy style editing tools, I would be lost trying to use an arranger. Beware of those that sound initially impressive, but have a low level of third party support, and arcane and unintuitive editing and creating tools. At least in the US, you are going to need them...

Either that, or find a schlager gig somewhere!

Mikey Maestro, Don't buy the PA800 it's awful. I thought I'd use it as a boat anchor after I used it on 1 gig. but it wasn't heavy enough. So I got me a G70 it's a much better boat anchor nice and heavy.

You won't get two separate controls for pitch bend and modulation on the Roland arrangers either...they use a bender lever that performs both functions and is no better (but no worse) than the Korg's joystick.

I prefer Yamaha's pitch bend and mod wheels for my style of play.

Ian

Hey Mikey, try here:
http://www.irishacts.com/ezypal/index.php?do=catalog&c=korg_triton_%2526_pa_series_libraries&i=style_pack_volume_1

Never mind the naysayers on here so far - you play what YOU like.

I have a Pa1XPro and guess why I play it. Yep, you got it.

Mikey,

You and I have talked enough to know my feelings on the 800.

1. Yes, 3rd party styles are limited. My contention is 3rd party styles pretty much are boring and suck anyway (with the exception of 124's site - very nicely done - goes to show how musical its engine is). There are PLENTY of ROM styles to suit any type music. Don't let others' comments cloud your head. Believe me, I play them all and they are all fantastic. I say this over and over - it's the musicality/sound design of this instrument that separates it from the rest - nothing compares. If you're looking for 50,000 rat-a-tat styles, then this is not for you.

2. The 80 is a joke compared to the 800 - do the comparison and upgrade features. Songbook, Helicon, OS, etc (please).

3. I would sell my boat first before the 800.

I am so very glad that the field of 800 users is narrow - it gives me the competitive edge. Also, I play 600+ gigs a year and the comments about the board are OVERWHELMING - including remarks from musicians and qualified critics in the crowd.

The 800 is the best thing that has ever happened to me and I played them ALL. Like 124 said, DO NOT LET A FEW NAYSAYERS SWAY YOU - decide for yourself. Come to Cincy - I'll make you a believer

[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 04-17-2009).]

Mikey.....what made you change you mind since this PA800 review a while back....
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/016202.html

Hey guys,
I on vacation here in sunny orlando, home of mickey. With all the great emails received I found a dealer (Discount Music)who has korg, yamaha arrangers. I finally was able to get my hands on a pa800 to try. I, as many of you have read recently bought a T2 last month. I bought it on just reviews and previous history with yamaha navigation and sounds.

I arrived at (discount music) was happily greeted by a manager, his name was Roman.
I told him I was visiting from boston and I was a T2 owner , contemplating purchasing a possible second board to use in conjunction with my Tyros2. He told me he had a PA800 and a PA1x pro. He immediately went and connected them side by side through a nice pair of powered studio monitors.

First impression, The Pa800 looks like a toy.
for some reason the blue color mixed with white buttons, silverish accents and grey speaker covers takes away from it looking like a pro board on the exterior.
before anyone thinks I'm bashing korg, I am a proud owner of a blue Korg Triton Extreme 61)The triton is a dark metallic blue with subtle grey accents.
Back too the pa800 we go. The one touch setting buttons took me about 20 seconds of hard looking to find. Thet are about the size of white tic tacs located right under the display screen, Which is smaller than the T2 screen and not even color to boot.

the style and sounds buttons are really cheap feeling and each button shares 2 styles or sounds using like an a/b button option. Yuck!!

The Keys, in my honest opinion are no better than the s900 key bed (not as nice as the triton extreme even) not sure how they would last over time.

The Styles:
Oh boy!!, this is where it gets worse beside the T2. My friends and fellow Musicians. the good styles are average at best!! The bad ones are just bad!!! A few of the rock styles offer a different feel than some of the T2 and wer ok, but the big band, pop, ballads, R&B, FUNK, are some of the worst and bland I've ever heard, I think my old Psr540 could hang with them. Anyone who said they were Punch and in your face may have been paid off by korg.

The songbook feature was very dull, not many factory songs included,they wer'nt decrypted, like the yamaha but i'm sure the correct names are out there. I know others have stated that the options on saving transpose and other stuff were nice but I didnt utilize them in my experiment.

There were a couple nice drum fills and a 3 count break button,. which was ok.

The Sounds/voices;
I'd love to know what voices korg was to outshine the Tyros 2 on. I tried some of the ones I use most often.

Piano - so so
organ- yuck and thin
sax- not even as nice as a $300 casio
brass- weak, weak , weak
guitar - try again
synth sounds - were descent
woodwinds- flute was fair, that was it
Sorry Korg Lovers!!

The speakers were ugly but sounded comparable to the S900.

There was no separate modulation wheel, the korg has one stick that does both. I want 2, sorry

Wrap up:
I tried the Pa1x pro shortly after. From reading the comparisons of people saying the pa1x pro was older technology, after the disappointment with the PA800. It was gonna be breif. However in my short time with the pa1x i did notice it's build quality was much better, the keys were a lot closer in quality to what i have on my T2.
The speakers were much louder and punchier than the PA800 they styles seemed similar for the most part.

My synth zone friends, "I wouldnt take 3 pa800's for my Tyros2 unless I could resell them on ebay rebuy my t2 and have a party with the leftover cash.

I hope i havn't upset any of you korg players, potential buyers please try them for yourself first, you may have a different opinion.

But I would like to give huge props to roman and his staff at discount music in orlando for being so friendly and helpful.

Another Dealer is Frank from Audio works in CT. I've spoke to him a few times, he is a great friendly smart guy. and his prices are excellent.

------------------
God Bless,
Mikey


Amazing..How things change eh?.....



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-17-2009).]

Mikey,

I know you're a bit undecided what to do. I've been thru it as you know. You may want to consider selling either your S900 or Tyros2, then pick up a PA800. It will give you the best of both worlds. I have the Pax2Pro and an s900. Works for me, ot took a while to find that combination and be happy. But I don't see myself changing in the near future. But like the New England weather wait a minute and that could change

Donny I'm not trying to speak for Mikey, but he recently had a chance to hear my Pa2xPro/Bose combination and liked what he heard coming from that combo while he was in the audience.

DITTO on Korg arrangers except I don't have a boat to sell

LOL Steve,

No boat here either - the 800 keeps me too busy Have a great weekend!

"2. The 80 is a joke compared to the 800 - do the comparison and upgrade features. Songbook, Helicon, OS, etc (please)."

I am sorry, but I will have to disagree on this. Yes, the E80 sounds crappy right out of the box since Roland did not do a very good job in initial setup. That is why I was dissapointed initially and just could not believe that Roland let a board slide like that. After acquiring it for a second time and investing some more time into it, it sounds fantastic.
The PA800 is a great board, but the OS is a major drawback for me. There are issues if you are intending to work with samples. Style editing is a major pain in the A**, and I am not talking about adjusting the volume and EQ's etc (deep style editing). The factory styles are modern, but not very LIVE. For me they were just not inspiring and sounded very thin!
I miss however some of the style controls such as; being able to start the style with a fill, fill loop, the four configurable outputs and very good DANCE styles.
One thing that I don't miss is the poor build quality, cheap keys, and only 4 effects ( where Roland and Yamaha have the edge). If I had to pick between PA800 and Tyros2 (which you have), the choice would clearly be a Tyros ( more DSP's, more Ram, better styles, build quality, ~~KEYS~~). Instead of spending the money and going through another learning curve, I think it would be better to invest the time and deeper explore the Tyros!

Bottom line is that any of these TOTL arrangers can sound great depending on the amount of time invested in them!
Discussions of the type "which arranger is better" are pointless and not trully representative of the potential of each.

You have to spend some time in order to find out what will work for you!

P.S. The E80 has a SONGBOOK which is the same as on the PA800.

Hitman,
I think, Zuki was talking about a PA80, not an e80. I could be wrong on that but at least that's the way I understood his message.

If that is the case, I do appologize and agree with Zuki!

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 04-17-2009).]

.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-18-2009).]

Hitman this post is so SPOT ON & Honest it ain't funny!!! good thoughts!! I agree with many of the things your saying. Everyone talsk but no one proves their point by posting a song or demo to show why?....until then its all BS.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-17-2009).]

Even after the demos are posted, it's still mostly BS, Donny...

Well even a song or a demo is not really representative of the sound! Majority of players use arrangers for live performance and that is where they should be judged ( in the same setting, through the same PA system).

@ MIkey,

when it comes to a choice between PA2x and the 800, you have to decide how important the key quality and weight are. However, the PA2X will give you a slightly better sound because of the better preamps and balanced outputs(including optical out).
To me, the price difference was not justified by the inclusion of a few options (that's why I sold it, and stuck with the 800).
But than again, these things might be important to you!

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 04-17-2009).]

I agree with Diki!
..while you posted, I was still typing

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 04-17-2009).]

Yes, I was comparing the PA80 and PA800. Never have seen the E80 to comment, although I really like the way it sounds in demos. Great weekend everyone - finally, some nice weather

There's something I noticed after playing the PA2xPro. The styles were too strong and too busy! While they sounded fantastic the first few times around, I found them to be irritating as they go on and especially while I'm trying to improvise on a song.

For me, an ideal arranger would have many various dance styles (still only one Schlager), but be as basic as possible. I think the excitement should come from how you play the song, and not the overuse of complex drum patterns.

In all fairness, I could be wrong. That was only my initial impression. I'm looking forward to playing it again in the near future to form a 2nd opinion.

Anyone else happen to experience what I did?

Lucky

No, not my experience - they're musical and inspiring. Sounds like you're a candidate for the rat-a-tat styles board.

That was funny!


------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.jokevid..com
www.77bucks.com Affordable web design

What each of us need in styles varies dramatically. A lot depends on skill level (if you don't play much, your arranger needs to play more), a lot depends on what you use it for (if you mostly sing, and use the arranger for accompaniment, you need a different level of playing density to if you are playing a lot yourself), etc., etc..

What works perfectly for one is a busy mush for another. Arrangers are, in a way, just like bands... some overplay, some underplay, some get it just right, but only when they are backing one particular frontman.

Personally, I think style density (not just how many parts are playing, but how busy each one is) is probably one of the MOST important considerations when it comes to deciding whether you like an arranger or not. Forget the sounds, forget the OS... Do the ROM styles leave JUST the right amount of space for how YOU like to play? Get that wrong, and it doesn't matter too much whether the sounds are great, or the panel layout is perfect or not...

Just a thought...

Good points Diki - I agree. I love to play with the band and play between parts. With the 800, it is the very best band I've ever played with and that includes many competent and trained musicians from the past I can humbly say the 800 makes me sound much better than I really am. I've also learned a lot in the process.

Lucky,

I understand your concerns.

My 800 story:

I was busy gigging and doing just fine with the S900. Donny's enthusiasm and reports on the 800 got me all excited and I ended up buying his.

I gave up on the 800 too quickly. What I did was try to compare styles between the 2 boards and it wasn't going smooth and fast enough. I initially thought the 800 just didn't have enough versatility.

What I really did was try to dumb down the 800. It won't let you do that and should not even be attempted

After I let it go and kept with the 900, I immediately longed for the drums/bass and interesting features I did like. I decided to try again and SURE AM GLAD I DID.

It took a good 6 months in my studio before I left the house with it. I still had reservations, but after my first live performance, I came home and sold the 900 the next day.

Now in my 2nd year, I continue to be amazed with this wonderful board. There are so many hidden features that shine in live play.

From what I've heard from you, I wouldn't give up on it just yet

Hi Mikey. Can i go right back to the begining and ask you why you are considering changing keyboard in the first place ? I have heard the clips you posted on youtube o your great entertainment for the kids at that school and as i understand it most of your clientelle are children . What functionality are you looking for that you feel you need that you dont already have on your T2 ?

zuki-6 months to prep? You must have the patience of a saint. I don't know man, I was considering Korg, but I think you just helped me come back to my senses.haha

I really am not into tweaking. I prefer knocking background instruments in and out on the fly to give me a different kind of live sound every time.

Guess I"ll just have to stick with my rat-a-tat Tryos 2.hehehe

Scott

I am not planning on ditching the tyros 2. I would like to have some other variety. At the resort I perform at in cape cod, there is a growing number of older children and teens. They are hoping for more mature songs to be mixed in. They are asking for covers of stuff like the Jonas brothers, high school musical etc. I have had a difficult time trying to get styles onboard the T2 to work in that setting. The korg has a little better engine for that style of music. I also use the music finder every show religiously. I am intrigued by the songbook feature. The lack of user ram on the yamaha line bugs me beyond reason. When I try to incorporate 3rd party style to acomplish my needs I'm not allowed to utilize the music finder with them due to space limitations.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Tyros but id like to see if there is something that can fill in what's missing in the gaps.


------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.jokevid..com
www.77bucks.com Affordable web design

Hi Scott,

6 months because of my busy work schedule and very limited time to devote to it. Also, I like to create medleys and have a flow of material for live play. This took figuring out the OS, Songbook, suitable styles, intros, endings and of course balancing/ changing instruments, eqing, etc.

It was well worth it

Mikey,

I feel guilty saying this in a "keyboard" forum, but.....I found it easier to go the DJ route. In the beginning, sure, I kept up with new tunes but I found it to be time-consuming and my energies were better directed toward the entertainment side of it. i.e. coming up with new ideas, games, patter, keeping up with the "kids" world in general.

Of course, the children were pleased because they could hear the original song the way they're used to it. Then there's the standards...Cha-Cha Slide, Macarena, Cotton-Eyed Joe, etc. There's no way on earth I'm going to generate the excitement that the original recording has.

So, I pretty much get around it like this...work harder on the actual entertainment angle (interacting out on the floor with them)....and....to maintain respect (there is none as a DJ), I bring the keyboard and start out with it, but I will ALWAYS seque to the DJ setup most times within 30 minutes.

Makes life a heck of a lot easier for everyone!

Lucky

Diki....you said it all here. That's the key that opened the mystery box (for me at least). I don't get a lot of time these days to actually THINK, so what I've been doing, looking for a new keyboard, is dragging myself from place to place trying them out without stopping to think what I'm actually doing. It's kind of like looking for a new car and then going from dealer to dealer, not being happy with any of them, but not taking the time to figure out WHY?

That's WHY...what you said. Since I've been in this room, I've been getting confused about what's "right" and what's "wrong" with each board. Everybody writes good stuff, they've all done their homework for sure, but I'm forgetting the obvious. The next person's needs are a lot different then mine.

So, that's what's wrong for ME, with the Korg. The rhythms ARE too active...for ME! Subconsciously, I feel tied up and locked into the style when I try to move about in a song. Someone else would have a stronger need for something more busy.

I'm going to take a short hiatus (also while I'm waiting for the Audya to come in) and sit down at my desk and go over what actually ARE my needs according to MY style rather than to trudge back and forth trying out each keyboard and "hoping something fits."

Funny....when I practice, I make sure my methodology (of practicing) is correct and efficient so I don't waste time. I need to apply that principle to "keyboard shopping" now!

Lucky

Mikey,
Keep the T2...buy a PA2XPRO NOT a PA800...lots of reasons!

You will need to spend some time with the PA2...it is deep...very flexable and great sounds! It has many PRO features, and is METAL, built well IMHO and the keybed is super (76 keys).

Styles are super! Some here (naysayers) probably have not even heard a CURRENT PA with OS2 2.1 AND some of the RECENT free styles from Korg's site! Also, more user styles are starting to pop up now..some free, some $$$

The style editing featres are SUPERB.
Drums are not quite as in your face as Ketron...but MUCH better than Yamaha for LIVE play.

DNC sounds are great AND you can build your own, not just take what is given from Korg.

In the end you must decide if you like it...I sold my T2 6 monthes after buying the PA2XPRO.

OH, I forgot to say..the sound through my Mackie HR824's is OUTSTANDING.No comparison to a PA800 through it's built in speakers.

Lee S

i am excited to try the PA2X pro. I will say it is the absolute most gorgeous arranger Ive ever seen.

I need to get to franks store soon to have fun on it.




------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.jokevid..com
www.77bucks.com Affordable web design

Mikey,
YES...go to Frank's..he can take you through it in fine fashion...ad he will be objective about the good and not as good points of the Korg...beacause we all know none of the arrangers is perfect...and never will be.

Lee S.

1) To be fair to Korg, I still haven't heard OS 2.1. But I must add that KorgUSA assured me that there is minimal difference! I'll make a judgment call when I hear it myself!

2) I found the opposite to be true. I thought Korg was actually more in my face than the Ketron. But again, I really need to sit down and just listen to someone else playing rather than do my own.

Having switched from T2 to PA800 last November I have found that one of the better features of the Korg is the ability, at the touch of a button, to silence all of a style except drums and bass. This enables one to be creative when you want to be and idle when you don't. I use a midi controller board to play left hand sounds and styles. It never quite worked with the Tyros as the left hand sounds always seemed weak and not the same as the identical sound selected for right hand. Not so with the PA800. Whether selected for right or left hand use the voices sound the same and with them used across the full width of both keyboards I find I can get a much richer variety of tone. Particularly in the lower registers.

Trevor

I've got my D-Beam set up for that function on the G70...

Wave my hand in the air, like magic, and away goes the ACC, and just B&D left playing.

Ahhhh.... the sound of silence (almost!)

Hi Lucky,
I found that with the beguine style.
The first few bars suited the song perfectly, by the time I got to bar 8, something wasn't quite working.
I simply cut the style down to the first 4 bars & saved as a user style.

Editing functions on the korg PA800/PA2x are brilliant.

best wishes
Rikki
p.s by dance styles, do you mean modern dance ( trance etc) or foxtrot , waltz etc ??
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lucky2Bhere:
[B]There's something I noticed after playing the PA2xPro. The styles were too strong and too busy! While they sounded fantastic the first few times around, I found them to be irritating as they go on and especially while I'm trying to improvise on a song.



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 04-19-2009).]

Trevor....I'm confused about why you use a "midi controller board" to play the left hand. What's wrong about playing the Korg directly (with the left hand)?

and...

if I find a style too "busy" what are my options towards "quieting" it down while I'm playing?

I don't read when I'm performing....I do everything out of my head. Hence, access of controls and "speed" is important to me as I tend to go from one song to another.

Lucky

Hi Rikki,

The more I read here, the more I’m starting to get interested in that PA2xPro again. I’m looking forward to another session on it, though, at this point, I’ll definitely wait until the Audya comes in.

That was creative of you to cut the pattern down. I hadn’t thought of something like that. So you can do that with the “editing?” Yes, everyone seems to agree that the “editing” features are A-1.

I think I already mentioned that I tend to be more of a player than a keyboard techie. Reason being, it forces me to play harder to overcome the lack of modern keyboard features. Unfortunately, I need to get back into “keyboard features”...my Roland is starting to show it’s age!

So what does one do with these new keyboards? You can take a “busy” pattern, trim it down to what suits my playing style, and then I would save it in a “user” slot? Would that be the general solution to these “busy” styles I find on recent keyboards?

I play a lot of Big Band and Fox Trots, but I also play a lot of styles in general. Although I play American standards and standard 50‘s, disco and rock, I also tend towards International music. I’ll play New York, NY and then go right into an Irish jig, or a Strauss waltz, or a polka, etc. Of course, this is dependent on the audience. When it comes to contemporary (R&B, hip-hop, etc) I don’t even try….I do DJ for that kind of stuff, so I’m not concerned with those style patterns. But I thought I’d mention this so you (and others) would have a better idea of my own needs in a keyboard (Diki talked about “personal needs” in the other thread).

With classic disco and rock, I’d prefer the styles to be busy so they don’t concern me too much.

Further thoughts from you? Or anyone on this?

Lucky

Unlike just muting parts completely, there isn't much you can do to make a 'busy' part simpler, short of completely editing the style and putting in a part of your own... most of the time, you can't simply erase some notes from a busy track and get a simple one.

However, if the drums and percussion get to be too much, I guess erasing a percussion part or two might be fairly simple... lose the bongos or congas and shaker or tambourine might help thin things out a bit. But simplifying a busy guitar track piano part or horn parts would be a major undertaking.

Another place to look would be translated styles... Perhaps you can find similar styles that have simpler parts coming from other arrangers (personally, I find a lot of Roland styles to be not too busy) and either use the translation whole, or merge it with your favorite tracks from an existing Korg style, for a hybrid style. If the OS makes it easy to do (the Roland's do, for sure!), assembling new styles out of Parts from other styles might be a far easier task than creating your own styles.

Just a thought.

Hi Lucky
all sorts of editing that can be done fairly easily.
The one I mentioned about cutting short the style part, simple as in record mode, scrolling the pattern length from 8 bars to 4 bars, it cuts out the last 4 bars of the pattern.
To delete the first 4 bars instead of the last 4, slightly more complex, you go to record mode, then edit mode & cut the first 4 bars. You save this as a user style.

A fairly simple way of customizing a style.

Other stuff you can do fairly easily, is to copy style tracks within the same style or from another style ie
just say variation 1 you're quite happy with, but variation 2 the bass pattern is a bit too busy, you can copy the bass pattern from vari 1 to vari 2 fairly simply.
Or just say, vari 1, 2, 3 are ok but vari 4 is just too busy & you'd never use it. Copy one of the other variations to vari 4 & modify it slightly, by copying a different drum track or bass track, in short, modify the style to suit your songs.
If you do find a style works better without certain tracks ie too busy, delete it.
It's no good just muting accomp 5 when in style play mode. Muting affects all the style parts, so if you mute accomp 5 for vari1, it will also affect vari2,3 etc

There's lots of user spaces & favourites spaces, so unless you use 100's of styles, you shouldn't run out for customizations.

I always put my permanent customizations into a Favourites slot & I keep my User spaces for styles I'm currently editing or auditioning. When I've finished editing & I know I want to keep a style, I save to Favourite slot.

I noticed you mentioned Roland?? in that case maybe you've not used pads??

Pads are great for adding additional sounds to drum & percussion tracks. There's also string pads, piano pads all sorts of stuff.
Pads can also be created from style tracks ie you've got a great guitar track in one of the styles & you'd like to create a pad out of it. Simple as copying style track to pad , a couple of adjustments like , is it a looping pad ( continuously plays in sync with style) or a one shot pad ( effect like a crash cymbal or a drum roll or if you want to get really creative down the track, you could use a wav sound).

Also style tracks can be copied from pads. So if you happen to have a pad that works perfectly with a style ( and you have a spare track) you can copy that pad into the style, saves having to press pad button.

There is one must have to my mind , & thats a pedalboard. I've had my EC5 since my i2 back in 1992. I sold keyboard , but for some reason never sold the pedal board. Must have been destined to own another korg, even if it was 15 years down the track. Makes things easier being able to assign certain functions to a board.

With the Audya nearly due, it's wise to wait & see what suits you better.
I dashed out & bought the Ketron SD1+, my other choice was the T2, stupidly I didn't wait to check out the T2.
Not knocking the SD1, but for me the style editing functions that I require , just didn't exist.

I do have some Ballroom & Bigband styles I've collected, happy to send them, but don't know if the store would be happy to load them for you to try??
Possibly some could still do with a bit of tweaking as I haven't gotten round to it yet.
I basically kept the ones with potential & dumped anything that was really bad.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lucky2Bhere:
[B]
Hi Rikki,

The more I read here, the more I’m starting to get interested in that PA2xPro again. I’m looking forward to another session on it, though, at this point, I’ll definitely wait until the Audya comes in.

Hi Mikey,
just interested. What type of styles do you actually use for the kiddies songs.

I tried to watch the video clip, but I think my WIRELESS internet is slower than my old dial up. I think I must live in a black hole or something. I had to give up.

best wishes
Rikki

hi rikki.

I have tried to expiriment with a little variety. i use few from each bank. I am really interested in more from the rock genre that arent bland and all the same and would love to get some dance/rb from to emulate whats popular on top 40 radio right now. the newer dance stuff ive heard on the T2 stink!!!!!!

the korg addressed the rock genre much better than yamaha. do you have any that can make the T2 shine in those genres?




------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.jokevid..com
www.77bucks.com Affordable web design

Diki....are you saying I can "translate" the Roland styles (with STL extensions)I have now from 10 years ago, and, if so, is it time-consuming? I collected hundreds of them...many are specialty styles (Charleston, Ragtime, etc) and perfect for what I do. Plus...I'm just plain used to them.

I started out playing Yamaha PSR's but eventually switched to Roland as, I agree with you, the dance styles at the time were superb. Even today they don't get carried away with them.

Lucky

Hi Rikki,

Thanks for writing so much, but I have to tell you that what you've written is "over my head!" Not because of the way you wrote it, but because of the terminology that Korg uses. And also because I'm really not familiar with today's arrangers with their new features. It's kind of like when I bought my first computer. Hadn't a clue what the salesman was talking about...what was a GUI?...what was an operating system?....what was Windows even? Nowadays I'm a whiz at it but it comes from day in and day out hands-on usage.

There's only two ways I'm going to learn what this Korg can do. Either buy it and hope it works out or......spend a week studying the manual. The former is too costly and the latter is too time-consuming. What to do, what to do?

I'll probably take that long drive up to Frank's "keyboard supermarket" when the Audya comes in and then I can see the that AND the SD5 and the PA2xPro. He knows the keyboards well and can explain it to me while they're in front of me.

Yes, if I go the Korg route I would appreciate whatever Big Band and Fox Trot styles you feel I might like.

What is it you actually do over there in Australia. Recording or performing? I'm very impressed that you're so involved with music! Is there a big market for arranger players there? P.S. I really miss playing Waltzing Matilda and Tie Me Kangaroo Down for the Aussies in the pubs! They're a great bunch!

Lucky

Hi Lucky,
sorry, I do prattle a bit.
In a nutshell,
option 1: was to cut bars from an existing style , so it may better suit the song you're playing.

option 2: was to use existing style parts, swap them round ( using copy function) to create a new style, that may better suit the song.

As for the pads, just make sure you check them out, they can add a lot to your playing.

As for me, I'm only a hobbyist.

I used to help musicians with the fundamentals of workstations , keyboards etc
sort of a walking, lots of talking,
" start up manual " back in the early 90's for one of the big Sydney music stores.

I'm basically fascinated with arranger technology , mainly style creation process.
Since I'm more technically minded, than musically blessed, I spend a lot of my time working out methods of converting styles, style editing etc etc
Unfortunately, musical creativity is something I lack. haahaa

Anyway, good luck with your keyboard hunting.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Mikey,
sorry, I only have the normal psr styles for my psr1500. I didn't bother collecting user styles. There's so many psr styles floating around on the net, I got tired of trying to sort good from bad conversions.

I never ended up getting the T2, as I bought the sd1+ before I had a chance to see one.

Have you checked the Yamaha site to see if they've brought out any additional styles that might suit?
I constantly get emails on stuff, but since I don't use my psr much anymore, I don't bother to check the site to see what they've got.

Dance (trance etc) & Rock isn't a genre I use even though I did collect a few of them.
The trance styles were too good to discard, even though I don't think I'd ever use them.

If I come across something I'll let you know.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikey_maestro:
[B] hi rikki.



------------------
best wishes
Rikki

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/PA800_StyleMaking/

I went back to samash to try the pa800 and the PA500 again. This will be my third try just to confirm my thoughts. I have to say that the voices have gotten a lot better than the pa80 days, but the styles are 90% the same. Even with the new voices the styles don't sound much better. I know that it has newer features from when I had the pa80. but I going to pass for sure and not look back. I decided the Korg is not a keyboard for me until they really turn those styles around and get a better OS.