For the past few weeks, I’ve been tracking down and playing arranger keyboards (mostly tracking) where I could find them. I’ve been on the Tyros 2, Roland G-70, E-80, GW-8, Ketron SD5, and...just a short time on the Korg Pa2X PRO.

You folks weren’t “whistling Dixie” about lax salespeople and poor service and their inability to demonstrate their products. I wonder how they don’t realize they could double their sales if they would only learn how to demonstrate an arranger keyboard rather than lead you to it, and proceed back to their cup of coffee.

Anyhow, I said all that because I really didn’t get to appreciate any of them for what they were because of this. By the time I figured out how to play a particular board I was too tired to continue. Add to that you’re usually in a cramped corner of the store, and if they have it hooked up to a speaker, it’s usually some generic one that doubles as a salad bar. It’s all very discouraging.

But that’s where this Korg comes in. I’m not a “Korg” man, but I came off the E-80 and thought I’d give it a quick try. I was knocked out. It’s the closest thing I found to a Ketron but with a solid name and track record behind it. I’m partial towards horns, and I usually judge a keyboard by it’s ability to replicate a trumpet and trombone (I never heard a bad “sax” on ANY keyboard). Sure enough, the trombone was just the right thickness and didn’t sound like you were playing a pocket comb. I went on to listen to the rhythm section. The drums sounded as clear as they do on the Ketron.

So I went home and listened to all the PA demo’s I could find here:
http://korgpa.com/pa_root/en/news/news.html?en

Very impressive. The keyboard sounds great and I can see someone actually took their time making these demo‘s. Many were burned at a very high speed for accurate playback. If the folks at Korg took the time to do all this, I can see they’re highly invested in their keyboards. A far cry from Roland.

I had a long talk with the company this afternoon (Korg), and again I’m very impressed with their dedication to arranger keyboards and for keeping their fingers on the pulse of us working musicians. The rep was extremely polite, knowledgeable, enthusiastic, supportive, etc. When I told him I was a working professional, he became even more concerned about my needs, understanding that it’s a big investment and that I don‘t mind the money, but I want to make a sound decision.

I was really bowled over with Korg. Everything so far sounds like a “go.” But...in all fairness, I haven’t really played it enough to replicate what I hear on those demo’s.

So...what are your opinions on this Pa2X. Why WOULD I buy it, and...why SHOULDN’T I buy it. This is not about is this the “best” keyboard? It’s about how some of you “hear” it through your own ears, and, of course, features. Are there any features that make this board unique?

I’m interested in hearing what some of you have to say about it, and, after studying the manual beforehand, I’m going to go and play it again.

BTW…I asked Korg about that glitch with the “fill-ins” that AJ talked about. Korg said there was nothing wrong with it. Figure that one out.

Lucky

I cant really vouch for the PA2X pro as i have never laid fingers on one or seen one in the flesh...

I own a PA 800 (just purchased it about 3 weeks ago). Iam sure u already know this but just in case you dont - the PA 800 and the PA 2x pro have identicle sound engines and operating systems.

I prviously owned a Tyros 2 and a Motif XS 6 Syntheziser from yamaha.

All i can say is - I am completely converted over to Korg! i love the operating system, the granularity you have with controlling styles, sounds and keyboard functions are amazing.

The korg definitely requires a bitof study at first to get use to the operating system and how things work but it honestly is not very hard once u get the hang of it (took me about 3 days all up)...\

Some people have said that the Korg is not as friendly for live arranger play asother brands but I have found it to be far more easier to control style part muting on the fly as u have buttons which can be fully asigned to do virtually anything in realtime, as well as sliders which can be assigned to 2 functions each... (not sure how many sliders are assignable on the PA2x - the PA 800 has 2 of them...

the sound and style department -
All the styles seem more authentic and realistic as Korg have left them very unplugged and 'live Band' like. they are very simple but yet sound so real and complete. the Drum kits are my favourite part of this keyboard as they are so crisp and punchy...

not sure if u are into style creation either - but I have found it to be so effective and easy. its hard to explain as a comparison cos u can tehcnically acheive the same things across different boards but with this keyboard i have created so many of my own styles and they sound professional with minimal editing needed...

the korg Forum is an abundance of help and assistance. I use it often and there are alot of extremely knowledgeable people on there that respond very quickly (without all the pissing contests )

hope all this helps - let me know if you need to know anything else?


Nick

I own a PA1-X Pro (Elite) and in fairness, it's not a million miles away from the '2, so I feel qualified to comment a little.

I have just 2 words:

Dual Sequencers!

oh well, i suppose dual sequencer is a big deal, but i never got to really use it. if you mainly play SMFs, this should be a great feature. otherwise, it's just good to know is there when you need it... no real help.

the fill-in issue, that korg say it's no issue at all, is the only real showstopper for me. i like very much korg's sounds, and the great option variety you have for controling styles, in the menus, but for a live player especially, i believe the ease in use and the on-fly controls are more important. so, even if my brain want a korg, my heart still wants a roland. (i've heard this from someone, it's not my invention)

Hi Lucky,

I own a Pa2xpro. I previously owned the Psr9000, Tyros, and the Tyros 2. So I guess I was always a Yamaha man. I became dis-enchanted by the Tyros line due to the lack of 76 keys, non-aggressive sound, lack of contemporary Western styles, and pitiful Musicfinder implementation. I've owned the Motif and the Korg Triton series of workstations as well.

I would say that I'm not really committed to ANY manufacturer. I'm really committed to the keyboard that works best for me. And right now that keyboard is the Pa2xpro. It is a wonderful keyboard. Great package, thoughtful design, great features, and very contemporary sound. Your right about Korg's commitment to the product. Releasing OS 2 is a clear example of that.

Please keep in mind there are trade-offs with EACH manufacturer. There does not currently exist a keyboard that offers everything to ALL players. You and only you can decide which of the trade-offs are important to you.

I love the Korg Live sound. I am a drummer as well as a keyboard player, and the Korg PA drum samples are the best in the business. Very punchy and lot's of choices. You can change drum kits on the fly. There are lot's of great sounds in the Pa especially with OS 2. And for me, I like the Korg Pianos better than the Tyros, although I have not played the T3 as yet.

Just some quick things I love about the Pa2xpro; sliders, touch screen, keybed, songbook, DNC (SuperArticulation), Dual Sequencers, Lyrics/Score display, build quality, size of the board, XLR jack, Vocal Harmonizer, contemporary styles, Operating system (very flexible).


I can keep going on and on comparing each feature. If you have a specific question regarding something on the Korg, don't hesitate to ask. I'll try to be as objective in my response as possible.

Al is right on the money with his comments. I was always a Yamaha man too. Still am since I recently purchased an s900, so I have the best of both worlds for my uses.

As things stand today I've owned the Korg product ( first with the PA800, now the Pa2xpro) for the last 14 months. Unless the wheel is reinvented with a new release of another brand i.e. Roland or Ketron. I will be staying with Korg for the immediate future. One thing I found a bit lacking with Korg was the number and variety of that Big Band/Jazz/Swing styles. But that's been solved with the help of our friend Rikki. She sent me a number of style conversions that are keeping me happy. As I recall you're within driving distance of Frankieve's store. I'm sure he's got one you can proably demo next to a T3 and an Sd5. Good luck.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 12-02-2008).]

I originally bought Donny's PA800 and gave up on it after 2 weeks. I was frustrated and time trapped. It was special, but the Yamaha 900 OS had me hooked with its simplicity. Gigging daily, I just couldn't find time to spend with it and my songs were in order.

After selling the 800 and playing weeks thereafter with the 900, I started to miss the things mentioned in this thread, especially that 'live' sound.

Like you, I tried Roland and Ketron and found they were not for me - didn't even spark interest. I then decided to seek an 800 again and got my hands on Bernie's.

It took me 4 - 5 months to get the 800 where I needed for live play. I dumped the 900 ages ago now. No looking back because I feel I'm just exploring the endless possibilities.

The 2X is a dream machine - just perfect weight and dimensions. The keybed is great and the extra goodies (vs 800) make it quite the studio setup.

So, that is my story, but by no means is 'mine better than yours'. Just another party that can say good things about a product.

Lucky,
I'm, curious, who at Korg have you been in contact with???
What person from what location?

By all means get to Frank's store and work with him on your decision. He knows a lot about the KOrg, Yamaha and Ketron's.

Lee

[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 12-02-2008).]

...and thanks to the members here for YOUR input on the PA2X.

I was all excited about this unit until I realized I’d have to drive another 70-80 miles to see and play one on demo. In the beginning, I read everything I could on it, downloaded the User manual, and talked to players familiar with Korg. But my enthusiasm began to wane a little more each day when it began to sink in that buying a new keyboard is like spending 2 years in the army. Everything gets put on “hold”...while you track down the “keyboard of the week.” When you finally locate one, it takes you hours to get to the dealer and only then if you go by helicopter. It’s very frustrating.

Whatever keyboard I’m playing, I like to diddle around with the features and milk it for all it’s worth (no sense in owning a top of the line product if you don’t) and the PA2X seem to have it all (including “dual sequencers“).

I like a lot of what this board can do, though I’m not sold on the sound. But, in all fairness, I haven’t heard it demonstrated properly under ideal conditions. It’s peaked my interest enough though that I’d still like to play one to see if it equals the Ketron sound. I think it’s already there in the drums department.

One thing I’m not happy about with all of these keyboards is the lack of authenticity in the brass and string sounds. The horns sound too thin and artificial with no meat on the bones. And the strings don’t have that full-bodied plush sound that you want to dive into and float on top of. In all fairness, it could be because my ear is now tuned to the natural sound of the acoustic piano which I do all my practicing on.

The Ketron I feel is a great instrument, but I’m wondering if it’s not due for an overhaul in the features dept. But….maybe it’s so advanced it doesn’t need updating yet. Also, I’ve come this far that I’ll probably wait to see if the Audya DOES come out as promised.

Steve...I didn’t know you owned a PAX2...and you’re happy with it to boot. Thanks to you and Lee for reminding me that Frank has one at his place. Though I’ve still got to find a free day to drive up and back. And I think he still has the SD5 that I could compare both.

I noticed that lack of Big Band sounds, but thought they were just hidden somewhere internally. That’s another problems with today’s arrangers is that they’re programmed for today’s music. Some dislike the Ketron for it’s lack of contemporary sounds, but I think that’s its strong point...traditional rhythm styles. I mean like, I play Strauss waltz’s with a “Viennese waltz patch” on my 10 year old Roland. You can’t play a Strauss waltz on an ordinary ¾ time patch. The beats have to be emphasized. I’ve seen very few Viennese waltz or polka or tango or march styles on any of the boards like they used to be. I DO like the new Django /Manouche styles they’ve come out with.

“The 2X is a dream machine - just perfect weight and dimensions. The keybed is great.”

Yes, Zuki, from the outside looking in, it does appear to be a dream machine. And the keybed IS great. Weight is comfortable. Enough keys to express yourself. Not crazy about the design or the display but I could learn to live with it.

Lee...I spoke to one of the technicians at Korg on the 800 #. I think he said they are in Long Island. I think I might also have used one of these #’s: 631-390-6500 or 631-390-8737.

I’m going to leave everything on the shelf until after Xmas...or until Donny has another Black Friday sale!

Lucky

Good luck with your adventures of board selections especially without the help of goofy saleman that can't help you with their products.

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 12-12-2008).]

Korg USA is located in Melville Long Island (New York) right in my back yard.
As has been stated here a "Million" times ... there is no "Complete" arranger KB!! I have been searching for over 20 years! Ha! Ha!
I have owned most of the top arrangers of today and yesterday, for right now the PA2xpro is the best for me!! I really like the Tyros3 but I also like to use midi files and the play back quality is not on par with Korg, Roland or Ketron. The reason for this has been discussed before on this forum.
The only Aarranger I am anticipating now is the Audya!! Having been a SD1 owner I miss their "Sound"! Hopefully it arrives while I'm still alive!!!

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 12-12-2008).]

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 12-12-2008).]

[This message has been edited by JCkeeys (edited 12-12-2008).]

JC

Now why didn't I think of that before...go right to the Korg factory! The techie's sound like they're fairly good arranger players. Truth is, anyone has got to be better than your average GC salesperson. I checked it out on the map...it's only a 40 mile drive. And I'll get a chance to try out my new GPS unit!

I'll call Korg on Monday and see if I can't make an arrangement. If you want to meet me there, that's OK by me.

Either way I'm going to wait and see if the Audya gets introduced as promised before I make a decision.

Lucky

You live on LI? Send me an email JCkeeys @aol.com

I had one for four months and sold it. I work for a Yamaha dealer and could get any Yamaha at 10% under cost and chose the Korg based on what I read from owners and the DEMOS. Sight unseen. I also had a Triton as the heart of my studio for years so I have a respect for Korg.

What I liked...with "Buts"

Its a great MIDI workstation......but if I wanted a workstation I would have bought one. I wanted an ARRANGER. Arrangers use STYLES. More on that later.

It has great features and a ton of them...But I found I wouldn't use most of them. The cross fader,The harmonizer, the XLR mike input,

It has some really nice Drums and some pianos...BUT I found the keyboard generally sounding a little RAW. The acoustic sounds paled in comparison to even the PSR900.

I bought an Arranger for studio use only. In that regard I liked the MIDI implementation but I would go into the store everyday and demo the CVPs, T2 and PSR900 then go home and hear the Korg. When the T3 cwas announced I decided to sell the Korg as at that time they were still being back ordered and I could and did get a good price on Ebay. After returning from Summer NAMM, where I played all the keyboards there, I chose the Yamaha.

I bought the Tyros for much much less as well which was a bonus and have been completely satisfied. The style library is in the thousands which is the very reason I chose an Arranger. Korg just did not have the style support and if I wanted to create my own styles I would buy a Motif and use the 6000 phrases and Arps to create my songs. I press a button on the T3 and Im on the Internet looking for,sampling, and downloading songs, Music Finder files and generic styles without getting up.

The Tyros has, IMO the best and most realistic acoustic sounds of all the boards I heard demoed or played live, I use software synths for some Drums and synthy sounds and other voices I like. Once I get the styles record into Sonar I can send the MIDI information to many places including back to the T3

I finally figured out the MIDI implementation and its different than a workstation and requires a little more forethought and templates but it is just as workable as any workstation in the end.

So there you go. Would I have paid $3500 for a Tyros 3 You bet. DO I miss the Korg or anyting about it. Nope. But I don't perform USING AN ARRANGER live. We will use tracks from it though and play 88 and guitar.

If I did have only one keyboard and had to use it live, the Korg is the better choice.
In the Studio the Yamaha Tyros 3 and a PC based studio has no peer.

I did get the owner of the Store to carry the Korg line and the Bose Systems (sfter I paid well above cost for both) LOL



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-14-2008).]

JC...No, I don't live on Long Island, but I'm within a reasonable driving distance of Melville. Unfortunately, I called Korg this morning and told her I would like to come out there to view the PA2X...

Answer: "We have no facilities here to demonstrate!"

She said she'd have the district manager call me back to "make some kind of arrangement" aside from a factory viewing. I'm still waiting for the return call.

Lucky

Kingfrog...

Thanks for your input here. It's interesting how we all "hear" an instrument differently.

But your comments on the features came in handy. A "user's" description is always more valuable than a factory's polished synopsis. I want to know from another player what you're working with when you're down in the trenches (on a gig...once you've determined that the sound is right for you).

But...I'm starting to understand today's rules of the game:

Rule #1: you have to buy a keyboard sight unseen unless you live near AJ, George Kaye or Frankie (and a few others)...and "sound unheard" unless you're lucky enough to find a salesperson who is a top of the line player and just sells keyboards for altruistic reasons to help others (highly unlikely).

Rule #2: see Rule No. 1 above

Rule #3: see Rule No. 2 above

You wrote sometime last year:

"I live in one of the most busy entertainment areas of the US for OMB and duos."

May I ask where that is?

Lucky

Instead of getting the keyboard that sounds closest to the Ketron, why wouldn't you get the Ketron? Especially since the new one is to be released in a month?

Chony....I started out looking at Ketron's and, after I hear the Korg PAX2, I'm probably going to go back to "looking at Ketron's"....particularly now that the Audya is on the horizon. My only beef with the Ketron is NOT what it sounds like, but it's lack of repair centers and general support of it outside of AJ. And....it's a few years old now. I'm not sure if it's lacking in recent innovations. Newer kb's might not sound as good, but the features they're coming up with are......cool!

Lucky

Not that I've got anything against Kingfrog's opinion (he's as entitled to it as anyone else's!), but because he doesn't always add this caveat, I'll put it in...

Kingfrog does NOT use his arranger for playing live, and does not play in realtime very much (he has said that he uses styles to create sequences, to create original songs for recording and songwriting purposes). This is NOT how most of us use our arrangers.

And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with this (it is ONE way I use my own arranger, too), if you are looking for advice, you need to take this into account. How an arranger works for you LIVE, onstage, with demands about quickness of navigation and simple live control is what so many of us need as a primary prerequisite, and I don't think this is one of Kingfrog's main concerns.

This is not intended as any kind of put-down (as I said, I use his methods as well ), but merely a heads-up to those that might take this advice without the knowledge of his way of using them...

Kingfrog...I have noticed you mention a couple of times you..being an employee of a Yamaha dealer..can buy any Yamaha product for "10 percent under cost"..

My question...why do you believe Yamaha would sell you a Yamaha product 10 percent less than the dealer you work for..pays?

My guess.. you are not privileged ..as in access to the real cost numbers...

It you told me you could buy at dealer cost for your own use...I would believe it...but less then what the dealer pays...no way..

As with many retailers.. the cost in the books are not the dealer cost...usually lowest offer to sell prices..