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#244975 - 10/16/08 02:31 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
I am sure that the styles, are on par or even better then the other arrangers...

But can Ketron keep up with Yamaha and Korg in the solo sounds department...
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#244976 - 10/16/08 02:43 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
DanO1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
Quote:
Originally posted by Bachus:
I am sure that the styles, are on par or even better then the other arrangers...

But can Ketron keep up with Yamaha and Korg in the solo sounds department...


Bachus ... sound authenticity is personal taste. To me, personally, Ketron solo sounds have always been better than Yamaha or Korg... There is no catching up to do... Just my opinion.
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#244977 - 10/16/08 03:22 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
You've got to admire 'faith' in the face of overwhelming evidence that making the Audya WORK was a FAR greater task than Ketron realized...

The only thing I am SURE of, is that it will not be everything everyone wants it to be... The nature of audio loops and the complexities involved (only some of which I have outlined) pretty much guarantee that those who think they will be the panacea to conventional arrangers will be disillusioned.

There will be a VERY short, initial gasp of 'this thing sounds AMAZING!', then the feeling of 'is this ALL it can do?' will set in. Trust me, audio loops in realtime for as fluid and complicated an instrument as rhythm guitar are just not practical. Even computers have yet to get it right, and they have FAR fewer practical restrictions (like load time, streaming audio, etc.) than a hardware instrument.

There's a HUGE difference between a loop that does it's own thing, and one that needs to respond INSTANTLY to your input. For instance, we haven't even discussed what happens if you change an extension or chord type DURING a long chord... Play a slow ballad, with a strumming chord. Change half way through a beat from Maj to Sus4... Your conventional arranger can handle this. How does an audio loop manage this?

I'm sorry, but I truly believe that audio is NOT the answer. Sophisticated guitar emulation is already a reality with Mega voicing, the new T3 guitar NTT's, and Korg's Guitar Mode. Tie these to VERY realistic samples, and you have a recipe for guitar strumming and picking that SOUNDS like the real thing, but remains editable and no problems with whatever whacked out chord you want to throw at it.

Audio loops feel like the One Finger approach to guitar parts, IMO. They are going to do what they want to do, and you are going to have little control over them...

We are on the verge of a Golden Age of arranger realism, but it is NOT going to come from primarily loops. Sample sets are getting more and more realistic, and techniques to add in the performance characteristics are getting more authentic, rules based behaviors for lines that don't jump on chord changes are already here, sampled drum sets like EZ Drummer and BFD show that you can get ultimate realism out of drums without audio loops of any kind, guitar strumming emulation is getting VERY close...

Audio loops are a blind alley, IMO, and any company that banks it's future on these has not simply looked at the PRACTICAL aspects of it. If I want to dick around with loops, I can use Garage Band. But if I want something that responds in an instant to what I play, and offers me an infinite variety of styles and sound variations (you can't change an acoustic loop into an electric loop with a simple PC#, that's for sure!), with customizability and editing possibilities, that's going to HAVE to remain a MIDI based arranger. IMHO...
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#244978 - 10/16/08 03:40 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
DanO1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
"I'm sorry, but I truly believe that audio is NOT the answer. Sophisticated guitar emulation is already a reality with Mega voicing, the new T3 guitar NTT's, and Korg's Guitar Mode. "

Th SD1 arrived in 2001 with excellent guitar immulation and captured realism way before Yamaha & Korg did , so the thought that you needed yamahas mega voice and korgs guitar mode to be realistic, is not accurate imo.

I would still take a SD1 over a T3 or PA2X any day. Just my opinion.
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#244979 - 10/16/08 04:00 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
To my knowledge, there is nothing on Ketrons remotely similar to Korg's Guitar Mode, or Mega Voice technology.

Yes, they had pretty good basic sounds, and some good style programmers, but there's nothing in the Ketron that revoices your chords to guitar specific chords and strumming patterns. Authentic guitar playing by the style section is just one of those things that, once you hear it, you realize just how OLD everything else has gotten

That's not to say the SD-1 isn't a great arranger, just that times HAVE moved on. Have you even TRIED a PA2X?
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#244980 - 10/17/08 04:42 AM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
Has any of the dealers gotten prices on the Audya yet? is it really going to be $5000?
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#244981 - 10/17/08 06:31 AM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
DanO1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
To my knowledge, there is nothing on Ketrons remotely similar to Korg's Guitar Mode, or Mega Voice technology.

Yes, they had pretty good basic sounds, and some good style programmers, but there's nothing in the Ketron that revoices your chords to guitar specific chords and strumming patterns. Authentic guitar playing by the style section is just one of those things that, once you hear it, you realize just how OLD everything else has gotten

That's not to say the SD-1 isn't a great arranger, just that times HAVE moved on. Have you even TRIED a PA2X?


General Music had notation & lyrics display before any product on the market. Does that make it old ?

Being able to select a guitar part and isolating that part instantly ( unplug )is a little more powerful a feature than mega voice & guitar mode ...

I will post SD1 audio samples for you soon. I will try out a PA2X. I have owned a T2 & PA1X & PA800.

If you haven't made a visit to my wesbite, you are certainly welcome to have a listen.
Guitar strums are all over the place, except for a few songs.




------------------
http://www.esnips.com/web/Songs
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#244982 - 11/16/08 06:19 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#244983 - 11/16/08 06:58 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Is it just me, or did that funk guitar thing basically not change all the way through? He made some variation changes, but I can't make out any different patterns, on the whole...

And he only played basic major and minor chords in it. No 7ths, no Dim's, no Aug's, no extensions. No nothing.

Mind you, one thing I REALLY like about the Audya... that's a 76 in about the footprint of a T3
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#244984 - 11/16/08 08:01 PM Re: Still no word on Ketron Audya?
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
no offense to the guy doing the demo, BUT...

Ketron really needs someone who ca REALLY demo this...and di it some justice

they need a "Yamaha" like guy that i've seen in a few demos...

these Ketron demos are VERY weak in my opinion...

i mean if you wanna show off a cutting edge top of the line keyboard, demo it with a top of the line player...

a pro instrument NEEDS a PRO demo...by a PRO player

anyone agree?

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