Is it me or I just don't see all the T3 Excitement we had with T1,T2?.....what do you think is the cause of this?

1- Too close to the T2?
2- To soon after the T2?
3- People want more change, 76 keys , features, etc, ?
4- To expensive for what you get?
5- People waiting to see what is coming out on the horizon after winter NAMM 2009?

Please feel free to add to the list or give your own views on this?

I bet they sell more T3's this year then T2's in whole 2007... Marketing wise this is an awesome produkt. Its selling better then a Big Mac.

I do agree that the leaps for the arrangers are to small nowerdays.... and any keyboard without 76 keys is not a contender anymore

Bachus....I think T2 took away many sales of T3 as people wont think the upgrade is really worth it this time around.
Plus timing is crucial for Yamaha before others start to release their models could put a wait & see attitude kibosh on perspective reluctant T3 buyers.

Well Donny, I can safely say the excitement about the Tyros3 in my area is very high.

It's a terrific instrument, and in my opinion, a substantial step up from the T2.

I'm really enjoying playing it...the SA2 Breathy Sax is awesome, as is the single-coil electric guitar...sounds like Telecaster.

I predict sales will be very high.

Ian

I never was excited

Ian maybe in your small market area but I'm talking worldwide internet.
Glad your enjoying it.

You don't have to be, my friend, you have found your Holy Grail.

You even have Donny wanting another PA-800.

Those of us who have found what gives us the most satisfaction(I still love my S900)are very lucky...think of Fran and Diki with their G70s,you and Uncle Dave with your PA-800s...contentment is so hard to find these days with so many great choices.

Ian

Time will tell, Donny, but interest is very high in Canada, which is a fairly large arranger market, especially in Quebec.

You'd be better off waiting for Roland's TOTL arranger...should be out in the new year...or will it?

Ian

Here in Germany you'd save 1200€ if you buy a Tyros 2 instead of a Tyros 3.
With full three years garantee!
Greetings
Peter

But then you wouldn't have a Tyros3?

But, I suppose it's nice to save some money, as the Tyros2 is a wonderful instrument as well.

My favorite is still the PSR-S900...that's a real bargain.

Ian

""Those of us who have found what gives us the most satisfaction(I still love my S900)are very lucky...think of Fran and Diki with their G70s,you and Uncle Dave with your PA-800s...contentment is so hard to find these days with so many great choices.""

Ian

These quoted words by you, really reflect my feelings also.....I am not a Pro Musician like a lot of users here, its a personal thing for me but as weird as this sounds, my lowly and oldly PSR-2000 still sounds good to my ears and still makes me happy..I can honestly understand why Diki, Fran, and others, are very content with their Boards

Well said "Ian", a pleasure to read

Ron



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createsongstyles.com

Ian,

Good! I was just funnin', as they say. I'd love to have a T3 at home too

But for my needs, doubling up is the smart way to go at this time.

Have a blast, as we all do - man, are we lucky to have music knowledge in our lives? How many would give all to just play an instrument! I thank God every day for studying when I was young.

Now to (2) gigs.


[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 10-13-2008).]

Just waiting the delivery of my T3,The best got even better.

Impuls.

this T3...

I dont live in the past,I mean Tyros 3.
:-))

Impuls

I sincerely believe there is lots of excitement, and in most areas of the U.S. and many other countries, the T3 is still either not available, or the few that do arrive are gobbled up immediately by folks that pre-ordered. I'm still awaiting the arrival of a T3 in my part of the world, and the best guess by the folks at the store is two more weeks.

Ron, That PSR-2000 was and still is one hell of a keyboard. There are thousands upon thousands of them still in use by both home and pro players throughout the world. Just a year ago there was a well-known, local entertainer still playing a PSR-500 at a popular niteclub and he was still packing the dancefloor. Granted, the newer technology provides us with a lot more options, but the skill of the performer/player is still the key ingredient to success.

Cheers,

Gary

I believe contentment comes from the realization that musical satisfaction comes from YOURSELF, not your equipment...

The minute you rely primarily on your gear for contentment, you are destined to never find it for any length of time, as newer models constantly come out and cast doubt on your buying decisions... I mean, how could you POSSIBLY be content, when a better, newer arranger is available?

But concentrate on what YOU play, and not the machine, and you have a constantly growing, constantly different performance to be listening to. As long as you concentrate your efforts on MUSICAL growth, and not technical growth, you have an inexhaustible supply of contentment (or dissatisfaction but at least it's something cheap to fix!) that will reflect well on ANYTHING you play...

Gary call AJ asap

I have to say, Ron, I thoroughly enjoyed my PSR-2000 as well...a real great "bang for the buck" in it's day, much like the S900 is now.

Beginning with the 2K,(or perhaps, the PSR-740) mid range arrangers became so good, it was not always necessary to get TOTL.

Ian


Ian

I thought this would be a good place to insert Diki's remark from the "What about the bad economy?" thread as a postscript to what he said here:

"But maybe this (bad economy) could be a good thing... Just imagine how much better as a PLAYER he could get if he wasn't counting on the arranger to make any improvements for him. Imagine how much better as a player he will get by practicing rather than just working out the technical details and talking endlessly about what the NEXT über-expensive arranger is going to do for HIM..."

And now you know why I still play a 10 year old Roland!

Lucky

Ellis Hall and his beloved PSR 2000

It was one of the best mid-range arrangers of its time. I still have my PSR 2000 although it is getting little use now that I have my Fantom G7. At this juncture I think it was a good idea to wean myself off of arrangers entirely, at least for the time being anyway. It gives me an opportunity to increase my playing skills without an auto-accompaniment feature to detract me from doing it. I suppose in 3 years or so I would be willing to give a 76 key Tyros4 a go of it if Yamaha complies and makes one. Or if Ketron ever decides to finally kick the Audya out of the testing facility its at and headed to stores I may consider getting it possibly. They will have to drop the price at least a grand or more before I would consider buying one though. If it takes two or three years before it drops that much in price, so be it. Roland could surprise us with a totl arranger at Winter NAMM 2009. That would mean it would be available by next summer maybe. If it's priced similar to what the T3 is and also has 76 keys I could see myself getting the Roland, all things considered that is of course.

Best,
Mike

but if Roland comes out with a new total arranger they have a lot of work to do to match some of those awesome tyros 3 SA sounds, i mean can the sax, clarinet, guitar get better?

what i hope Roland does (as i said many times) is give us some GOOD, AUTHENTIC latin stuff programmed by real latin musicians,
not styles loaded with tons of unecessary and unrealistic instruments...

give us some usable dance stuff,

give us some good brass, not some wanna be weak brass

it's a race for the ultimate arranger, AUDYA, Tyros3 or some MOTIF arranger, Roland, G-80,,, i hate waiting

so i will keep on enjoying my G-70 and Ketron XD-3 till something WAY better is available

There are many things Roland could do to regain their position. I believe they already HAVE much of the technology in place on other keyboards to make something truly competitive, and yet still excel at what used to be their best feature... USABILITY. Once upon a time, every feature on a Roland arranger made sense to a MUSICIAN, and a good one at that.

There used to be features that rewarded having a good left hand. There were features that rewarded good on the fly arranging skills. There were features that made sense to a live musician as WELL as an arranger user.

We need a return to those days. And then the logical development of the features that are half finished now that with work could make the Roland up to date...

First up is Guitar Mode. At present, little more than a gimmick, virtually useless live. Most of the time we want great guitar part ACCOMPANIMENT... Roland's can't be used in a style Only played live or recorded into an SMF. Idiots... Yamaha's Mega Voice thingy is probably it's STRONGEST advantage over the Roland... Allow Guitar mode to be triggered by the Style section, and you've gone a LONG way to narrowing that gap.

Next up is a refinement of the old Chord Sequencer feature, that rewarded having a strong LH. Play the chords the first time through, then hand the chore over to the Chord Sequencer (all interactive on-the-fly) and jam your little heart out! Take back over any time you want...

OK, tie it in with the ability that Korg's have of being able to STORE those chord sequences, give us a selection of four or so to chose from interactively, and either playback pre-recorded ones, or store multiple sets on the fly, and link it to the registration. A solo blowers dream come true... I just don't get it, guys. Korg's have this non-real time system and it gets praised, Roland had a better system that was REALTIME, and it gets no support at all... Un-f*ing-believable!

And it COULD be even better... well, whatever!

OK, let's look further afield in Roland's product line... The FantomX was able to play time-sliced and tempo-synced loops of any kind, and integrate it with arps or SMF's. And you could lay out a selection of these (either preset, or RAM audio) and trigger them from a really nice big velocity sensitive drum pad section. Wouldn't that, even if just relegated to triggering MIDI files, be the equivalent of the Multipads of Yamaha and Korg? Now add in the FantomX's time-sliced audio loops, and you have the equivalent of Ketron's 'Live Drums', but with the advantage of being able to play full workstation style musical loops..! Perfect for the younger player who includes electronica and hiphop amongst his styles (and the acid jazz and smooth jazz guys too, don't forget)

How about just MORE of those great V-Drum kits, and add to it four-way percussion of as high a quality. Actually, the GW-8 Latin has some great percussion sounds, seven or eight different types of conga sounds, bongo sounds, a pretty exhaustive Latin set, actually. Those would be good, too... Some of the Hiphop kits out of the Fantom's too... And allow drum sounds to be triggered by those handy drumpads/Multipads, for programming styles yourself, or adding to SMF's (or just playing live, too)...

Add more control to the VK-8 section (and make the bloody Leslie pre-f*ing reverb, for Pete's sake! ) and give it a dedicated output...

You know, if JUST those things got added, and ALL of them are existing Roland technology (not even cutting edge current product technology), it would be the best arranger on the market... NOTHING else even comes close. And it is all leveraged technology, no R&D of any significance to make it too expensive.

The addition of five year old loop slice technology from the WS line and it's pad controller could revolutionize the arranger industry again, with a decent integration into arranger workflow. And the completion of Roland's half finished Guitar Mode could narrow the Mega gap. And, you know, if they did all this, I wouldn't miss the SA thing one little bit (even though Roland currently ARE working on an infancy version of it in their new AT Organs)...

Will they do this? Who knows? Can they do this? A definite 'YES!"... Should they do it?

Well, if it were up to me, it already WOULD have been done!

Was able to compare pretty much all of the instruments at Pakefield, and while the GW8 was a star in its intended segment, the rest of the E & G series were at the bottom of the pile (They haven’t gone bad, they just haven’t kept up with the times) even with top performer demos.
Contrast this with their new Atelier range of organs and it was like comparing chalk and cheese, the Atelier sound engine was astonishing, and although it didn’t have SA2, (It didn’t need it) it easily left the Tyros 3 trailing in its wake.
Now combine the Atelier sound engine with some of the best usable styles out there, (Roland make crackers) and the Yamaha R & D guys (As well as others) would be shaking their heads wondering what they need to do to compete.
One thing I have to reiterate from earlier though is; no matter how good the arranger, in the end there is no substitute for playing technique.

Bill

I won't upgrade for starters, $3899.00 is a lot of money and S900 is doing the job for me very well. I don't think the majority of the crowd will tell the difference between the t2/s900 or t3.

So Yamaha catches the poor & the rich in one swoop since their mid line can come that close to their TOTL arrangers. Is that good or bad?

I think is good, since there are still differences with the t2 & s900. Some people don't need the extra bells and whisles. I looked at the t2 first and I was going to purchase it, but I also spent some time with the s900 and I found it to meet all my needs. I would have liked an internal hard drive but the usb works just as well and it had all of the styles and sounds I needed. Korg did the same thing with the pa80 /60.
I always thought that the t2 should have been in the 2500-3000 price range to begin with.

Maybe not. But the overall sound can. Much better (compared to what the Tyros3 sounds like now). Tyros 3 is good, but not by far reaching the highest possible level of realism. Not by far. Well maybe if you want all your music to sound like a Burt Bacharach production.

I play Guitar Mode live. And I use it in styles. So I guess they're no idiots after all

You can't use Guitar Mode in a style... Period.

You CAN take it's output, and use it to make a style FROM, but as soon as it is in the style, it loses all the things that make it so good... correctly voiced guitar chords on ANY chord, and the ability to change neck positions as you go up the keyboard's chord recognition area.

There's a huge difference between the output in Guitar Mode and in Style Mode...

I already said you CAN use it live, but what's the point? Do you really like taking BOTH hands away from playing, just to get an accompaniment strumming pattern on an acoustic guitar? It doesn't do lead guitar, and, I'm sorry, but most of us at least prefer the guitar to accompany what we DO want to play, not tie ourselves up simply trying to play that accompaniment.

I find it counterintuitive to play, and a PITA to use, and it still comes SO close to being useful, but stumbles at the doorstep... If only the triggering notes could be recorded into a style, so you don't have to play them, just finger the chord (as you already ARE doing), wouldn't that be MUCH better?

But it would involve Roland giving us more than one drum track (so the trigger notes don't get transposed) which is something they have adamantly refused to do after decades of users crying out for the feature (that most other arrangers already have)

I believe people have decided in this age of Arrangers their favorites and new ones by other companies don;t generate as much "press".

I do know Yamaha has plenty of T2s and we can sell them new in the box for $2500. Which outs a damper on the used ones. At $3500 the PSR900 was close enough. At $2500 some will take a second look.

Plus much of the excitement was generated before the release. They have been received well and seem to be selling.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-14-2008).]

Ah ok, I see what you mean. Yes, I use the OUTPUT of the Guitar Mode to create styles.



Yes. Depending on who I play WITH. I don't use my keyboard as a solo-artist. So to me, the Guitar Mode is useful on-stage as well.

I think I see, Burkels... You sometimes perform without a guitarist in a live setting?

I'd love to hear what you have done using Guitar Mode (stick it up at R-A.com). It's just one of those features that, with just a BIT more work, could catapult Roland back into the game if it worked in Style Mode like Korg's does.

Or even an option to use the Guitar Mode NTT's when you transfer it to Style Mode would be useful. But it's current implementation is SO restrictive. I am glad it's working for SOMEBODY, but for me it's just not practical...

I personally own a psr 9000 and a roland e80 they are both beautiful boards. My house was broken into and the snagged my tryos and all my collectors guitars. So i can honestly tell you for what they are like comparing a talor to a martin a strat to a les paul.All are premium arrangers. But yamahas programing is very sterile and roland's sound a very woody and accoustic. Each company has a very viable musical slant and perspective.
The e80 is lacking in a break fill button multi pads and a step entry chord sequncer which i and others have told jan vogel at roland that this former g1000 and em2000 and g800 option needs to be written into version 3 upgrade. The e80 sounds like nothing else sound and stlye wise also you it displays instantly for you good chords on the spot in the base of the lyrics window and on an external tv for jammin.
All these companies practice string em along marketing thats why i'm still pissed at them all. Our arrangers should be over the top better each new model and not lacking in previous genius features.