One of the Guitar Center where I live has had a Technics KN2600 sitting in the "PRO" keyboard section for around a year now with nobody snatching it up. One reason being, they are asking way too much for it and most people know by now that Technics doesn't make keyboards anymore.

I'm really not sure how well high-end arrangers are selling at the local Guitar Centers near me. I suppose I could ask next time I go and try and get a feel on what direction Guitar Center might be taking regarding high and mid range arrangers.

I've felt for a long time now that Workstations and Arrangers would more or less "meld" together and it is beginning to happen e.g. with Yamaha's Motif ES/XS and Korg's M3 with Karma 2.0, etc. But I think you're right in that the "terms" used on arrangers will be "changed" to more professionally sounding names and terms. The current stigma regarding: Auto-Accompaniment, Styles, the word "Arranger", Etc., all have that "toy" symbolism ascribed to them in the minds of the traditional Workstation crowd. To overcome that stigma the actual symbols, names, and terms, would need to be changed to gain the acceptance of the Workstation professionals in my opinion. Yamaha is doing that already by saying "Arpeggios" and "Chord Recognition" and Korg is using the term Karma in a similar fashion for the M3.

Unless Arrangers can "turn the corner" and be more than just a "looped based" robotic music generator with no variance in the way the music is generated or presented, I think they will go the way of Home Organs also. With the prices for high-end arrangers going up and up and up, yet people are still getting this robotic artificially presented looped based mechanical connotation attached with them; that the once sizzle will soon fizzle, with people demanding more for their money or opting out of buying an arranger altogether. And the Big Three and others that apply arranger type functions into their Workstations need to "turn the corner" as well when incorporating those arranger type functions into them. Giving them different names helps but the technology that drives them needs to change and improve as well. Like Ketron is trying to do with the Audya and Lionstracs is trying to do with the Mediastation.

Best,
Mike

Mike .....they know what they are doing marketing wise for sure. ......lets face it Arrangers = Home players period and thousands of them worldwide......the live gigging arranger musician is a minuscule percentage if that in that market versus pros who are using so many other methods to gig live & record with out using an arrangers at all. Money drives the different markets.....lumping them all in one cuts PROFITS just like Light Beer & Regular Beer with choices more people BUY different things! What I would assume that in the future music stores will be a thing of the past pushed out by ONLINE stores....... clueless salesperson, poorly stocked stores, overpricing versus the Internet all combine to be the demise of Music stores as we used to know them.
Sad facts but that's life.

First of all... It isn't the nomenclature of MotifXS terms that need to be changed. It is the way they WORK. As long as a button performs the FUNCTION of a fill, I don't give a damn what it is called! But on MotifXS, even the loops which are programmed to be fills cannot be dropped into in realtime. In other words, when you want a fill, you have to cue it up a bar ahead of time.. You can't just drop into it and it be in sync with what is already going on. Plus there are no 'play this loop once, then go to this other loop' commands, which would serve as Intro loops, and no 'play this loop once and stop' which would serve as an ending.

Other than that, functionality is quite similar in many ways, and with the right content could be very arranger-like in many ways. Plus, of course, for your $1800 LESS than a Tyros you get tempo synchronized audio loops, a full featured sampler, multitrack DAW features, digital connectivity, Cubase integration, and a sound palette, especially drums, that blows the Tyros away. SA2, Mega and Live! sounds that you are familiar with, and an effects architecture that puts the T3 to shame. No harmonizer though (yippee!)...

And, of course, a choice of 61, 76 AND 88 keys. Something for everyone.

Kids aren't nearly as dumb as you think they are. Can't say the same for us, I'm afraid...

i wisg they would have retired the the Tyros line with the T2

i really wish they would have expanded on the Motif XS idea, and make it more arranger like... intros, fills,
i mean it's almost there with arpegg, etc,

imagine having a MOTIF arranger, something built well, (not cheap platic), and something that's affordable, not $4K, or over $5k which the Ketron Audya will probably sell for

Diki do you have a MOxs?

No, but I have played one quite a bit...

It's a very good WS, IMO, but the loop system needs more work for it to be of use to more than hiphop type loop triggering. Still weak in the piano, compared to G70/FantomX, though IMO.

Killer Rhodes, though

Well, these 'young' people are going to 'age' too ... let's hope they do it QUICK !!!

t.

When they age, they are going to want to play what they played as youngsters, as do we... They won't be playing arrangers, because they STILL won't be the right keyboard for their music

Our only hope is to get arranger type control of modern WS's... They are cheaper, better, and more abundant, and will be around for LONG after arrangers have gone the way of the 'home organ'

Personally, I think if a MotifXS had arranger style loop control, or a FantomG could control it's tempo-synched loops and arps with chords and had the same arranger-like capabilities (without using the WORD 'arranger' or 'variations and fills' to cloud the issue), I would be using one now, quite happily... and save myself around $1500

But you are NEVER going to see a twentysomething start to use arrangers to play bossas and bigband when he retires!

I wandered into Sam Ash music on 48th St. in Manhattan this afternoon. Unfortunately, I was short of time and could not demo anything, but........they had a Roland GW8 that a sales rep said came in on Friday. I went there to really have a look at a Tyros3. The rep said Tyros 3 is slated for release later this year. I said no they have been released. He went to the computer and said oh yea it has, but out of 22 stores, there's only a couple of stores that have them. One was in LA. Makes you wonder a a chain the size of Sam Ash and the prestige I thought it had. As most other chains there were plenty of synths in stock. They did have most of the other arrangers from Yamaha including a left over Tyros 2 being sold at the closeout price of $2599. Also in stock was a PA800 and a PA500.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 10-12-2008).]