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#244403 - 10/08/08 12:27 PM Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
so i call Guitar Center and Sam Ash in the NY/NJ area, and ask for keyboard dept.

i then ask rep: do you have the Tyros 3 on the floor?

rep says? Tyros..Tyros...let me see.. That's a Korg right?

you kidding? why are the people working @ these stores so ignorant and clueless?

i remember back in the days, not only did they know the makes, models, etc, they new how to demo stuff, they knew how to play the stuff, they knew the differences amongst the instruments, they knew how to edit/program, etc,

nowadays it seems like they're last job was stockboy at the local A&P, ShopRite,

how sad...

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#244404 - 10/08/08 01:46 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Lee7 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/02/01
Posts: 27
Loc: Phoenix, AZ, USA
For what it's worth, I've noticed that Guitar Center doesn't even list the Tyros 3 on their web site, unlike the other big online retailers who were listing it for pre-sale before they were available. Makes me think they won't have one in the local store soon. Unfortunately Guitar Center is the only place I've found in Phoenix that would possibly have one. I had hoped to at least see one before ordering it but gave up on that idea.

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#244405 - 10/08/08 01:53 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
I think you need to look at the target market of these stores. These stores cater to the 15 to 30 age group of rock and rollers. You can tell somewhat by looking at the age of the sales staff. How many are over 30?

How many under 30s are interested in arrangers? The sales staff at the Guitar Center in Grand Rapids MI says there is no market for hi end arrangers and they don't sell. It is sad but I believe them.

That doesn't excuse the poor customer service I've experienced there but it does explain why no arrangers above the $400.00 Casio.

Tom
_________________________
Thanks,

Tom

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#244406 - 10/08/08 02:22 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
No surprise there my friend....
you have to do your own homework before you buy gear....sales rep? bahahahaha Best Buy,Walmart & 7-11 will be the only music stores left soon



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-08-2008).]

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#244407 - 10/08/08 03:21 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Caragabal Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 320
Loc: Hobart Tasmania Australia
My local store is no longer selling high end arrangers.

There is no profit for them as the selling of them is to slow .

The ones on the floor were being sold at marked down prices because they had become
shop soiled.

They are now selling Casio and PSR900 and PSR700 etc.

If I ever want a new high end arranger I will have to get them to order it in.

Cousin Ken

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#244408 - 10/08/08 05:37 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
What better proof do we need of the fact that modern arrangers are completely out of touch with the needs of younger players..?

And what hope is there for the continued health of this type of instrument if the only people it appeals to is an ever diminishing pool of aging users?

It is WAY past time for 'the convergence'... WS power and sounds with arranger ease of use. Without this, they are going the way of the 'home organ' (anyone remember those? )
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#244409 - 10/08/08 05:48 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Diki.....Sad but true....good post.
Things are changing fast...gear wise & audience Mindset wise Big Time

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#244410 - 10/08/08 06:00 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Time for Yamaha to use arranger style control of the 'loops and arpeggios' (OK, you and I know that really means 'styles' ) in the MotifXS line...

That's all it really needs to be as functional as a regular arranger (OK, no bass inversions yet, but it could easily be added). Doesn't seem like a whole hell of a lot to add, then the main manufacturers could drop this pathetic effort to squeeze the elderly with stripped down WS's at top dollar prices by slapping a bunch of bossa and bigband 'loops and arpeggios' into the content
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#244411 - 10/08/08 09:53 PM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
I work at a large independent store with a million dollar inventory on the floor. Most of us are over 40 in the store and have a track record of professional work
of making music for a living. In a destination resort market that hires a lot of singles and duos. We have one Tyros 3 and it will sit for a long time.

There is a lot of work here during the season and some off season for musicians.
My wife is one of them. For 30 years she made her living playing. No one we know would take only an "arranger" to a gig or any 61 key board.

My wife does record tracks from the T3 but always shows up with 88 weighted keys and a guitar. whether one of the RD700's or the Casio Previa 320 depending on the job, She feels being hired as a keyboard player requires more than showing up with a 61 key board "you play like a chord organ" She would rather use both hands to play a weighted keyboard even with tracks. As does every other keyboard single or duo player we know who derives their living playing.

The T3 will sit in the store for a long time I suspect. We sell a lot of Clavinova Arrangers and PSR900s. All to home users. None to professional musicians for gigging. Even I use it solely for songwriting and recording. The pros buy their Motifs and Fantoms online. We don't even carry them as we would just be a demo house for them because it has been our experience the tax savings is worth buying online for many regarding those workstations. Home keyboard players tend to buy in store. Pro players buy online.

Not so with high end guitars though.
We have over 300 guitars hanging on the walls, A ton of Amps and room full of PA , 8 grand pianos , a handful of uprights, 100 SF of sheet music, All the Clavinovas made on and on....yet a we had a used Tyros 2 on consignment for nearly a year on the floor that only recently sold.

I understand why Yamaha target markets them to home users. I reside in a destination resort market now and lived in Vegas for years and never saw anyone using an arranger on a paid gig.

The PA2x is a keyboard I can understand people using on a gig far more than the T3. It's built better for that single purpose and somehow looks like a "real keyboard" due to its larger size and 76 keys. Better harmonizer, low impedance mike inputs dual sequencers etc....

I can understand a 61 key board on a rack in a band situation. I cannot envision being hired around here anyway as a keyboard player and showing up with a 61 key board with or without speakers.

I think again Yamaha knows it's primary markets for the products they make and sell.I think the owner only picked up a Tyros 3 because I bought one on the employee plan and I would know how to demo it and train people on it. Also it will help sell far more S900s. $1600-$4000 is quite the jump. Its easier to begin with the T3 and then sell the suddenly bargain S900 using the same styles.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-08-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-08-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#244412 - 10/09/08 05:23 AM Re: Tyros 3 WHO ? Many Sales Reps are CLUELESS
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
There's another very important factor not mentioned. Yes..., the pro arranger is out of touch with the younger market. That has been obvious for years and clearly the makers target a more mature group for the sales of the high end arrangers.

The younger market (from what I've seen) do want an arranger, but the problem is that NO arranger to date really caters to the modern music. I'm not talking electronica either like Hip Hip, Dance, Rap, ect.., but the more traditional styles today have changed and even the high end arrangers do not reflect this. The arrangers still tend to favor the more old school forms of these styles.

Plus the younger generation are seeing the price tag on these things and shittin their pants on the spot! The younger crowd is going to the WS because they get more modern styles of music from them..., and for them it's a no brainer when they see a Motif XS6 selling for $2199 and the Tyros 3 selling for $3899.

I can't tell you how many times I've talked to someone in their 20's who were lucky enough to find a high end arranger to test.., but were completey turned off by the styles and the price.

These things cost a fortune because for years the target market (the home player) has beeen willing to pay this price. I still say that the problem is what a Yamaha rep told me several years ago regarding the target market for the high end arrangers.. The major problem with that way of thinking now is that TIMES HAVE SERIOUSLY CHANGED, and that "disposable income" isn't as disposable as it used to be for many of those buyers today.

The prices need to come down simple as that. There's no reason a 61 key arranger from Yamaha designed for the home player, and targeted at the home player (which can be seen by it's overall construction)..., should cost more than Yamaha's top end 88 key workstation. That in itself makes no sense. One being an arranger and the other workstation means NOTHING.., as there is NOTHING that truely justifies such a huge price gap between the two. Some of you guys say styles styles styles, yet really haven't a clue as to how much work goes into the drum patterns and arps on a WS.

A good example...., look at the budget mid line arrangers. Look at the price of the S-900 for example..., then compare that to the price of these budget workstations. Even the budget arranger market is higher (even though these keyboard are also built with the home player in mind).

As long as people are willing to pay these sky-high jacked prices on these arrangers, they have no reason to make them more affordable. The price doesn't just affect the buyer either. You also don't see them in stores because of the cost to the dealers as well.


Keyboard departments are VERY expensive to run. The cost to get them set up is enough to change a store owners mind. I was helping a friend who owns a local music store who wanted to set up a keyboard department and have me run it for him. In the end after talking to all the reps (he almost physically threw the Yamaha rep out the door due to the minimal purchase he would have to make and then being told his store had to be moved around in order to sell them.., even though he already had a keyboard section reserved), but the overall cost of getting it up and running was just too much for him.




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-09-2008).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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