Diki ... I agree with so much of what you have said, except that my wife and I are not included in "the parents who often cosign for these things, when we should know better ourselves ", fro our children have not asked, nor would we if asked ...

Also, you talk about the mega-corporations that control the media ... let us not forget that it is a very "liberal minded" media ... And I don't think it was 'deregulation' that prevented us from being bombarded with "buy this NOW", rather the fact that SO many of today's devices didn't even exist ... We have ALWAYS had advertising, but now it is EVERYWHERE !!!

I agree that no corporate mogul should be getting a 'golden parachute' when the company he/she was paid to run is going down the tubes ...
As far as teachers in RI, they are amongst the highest paid in the country - and in most (if not all) school systems here, the teachers absolutely refuse to pay ONE DIME towards their health care coverage ... I don't know of any corporation where the workers don't pay at least something towards their health care ...
So "we have met the enemy and the enemy is us" and until and unless we ALL start to do our part, we ain't EVER gonna start to fix the problems ...

t.

I agree, in the most part. But let us not forget that, while on the OUTSIDE, the media appears liberal (although Fox, Glen Beck and many others would HATE to be painted with that brush!), the people that actually OWN these conglomerates are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with agendas that are more 'bread and circuses' while they mentally rape a young generation.

Deregulation is EXACTLY the reason why there are 40% more advertisements per hour of TV than there was thirty years ago. Deregulation is EXACTLY why language and behavior that was prohibited in the eighties is common practice. Deregulation is exactly why there is less quality children's and pre-school children's programming than the seventies...

And teachers getting free health care... Why should that be a problem? Something needs to be thrown their way to attract the better minds who could easily be making more in the civilian sector for the same level of work (you know how stressful that job can be, these days!). Why not attack the question of WHY the health care system in our country is spiraling out of control with prices... If we payed the same for health care as most European nations, we could AFFORD for them to have this. And I live in the South, where many states have the LOWEST pay scale for teachers in the US. How nice it must be for you!. Health care ain't any cheaper, though...

Yes, there's plenty of blame to go around, on the left and on the right. But now is the time to FIX the problems, not hang the guys who created it. I don't get the sense from McCain that he is the man for the job. Barack may not either, but seems the better voice for change.

We already HAVE had change from the right... More than enough, thank you! We need change from a man that means to change things for the better for ALL of us, not his Keating Five friends and fellow millionaires. Eight YEARS of Republican agenda and here we are. Anyone really think that four MORE is going to fix this mess?

I doubt that the type of deregulation in the entertainment industry that you are talking about is part of a 'Republican' agenda. Unfortunately, I think it stems more from the activities of such groups as the ACLU, for as much good as they may do, I believe sometimes go to far. In these times, if anyone tries to 'regulate' the language and content of TV shows, they are sued for violating freedom of speech.

And I think free health care for ANY individuals who can afford to pay into it is a problem ... because SOMEBODY has to pay for it - guess who...

And let me say that when we talk about the cost of health care, while there are no doubt some abuses, the general public has NO IDEA as to how much money goes into research and development of the medicines and procedures used today that were only a dream years ago ... for example, I recently suffered a torn retina ... I saw some white flashing in my eye and went for a check up and it was diagnosed. The doctor immediately set me up with an appointment with a specialist who did laser surgery to repair the retina the same day ... as I was sitting there looking into this bright light that was being shot into my eye, I could not help but wonder how many years and how many dollars went into the development of that machine ... but I thank God the effort and dollars were spent ...

And I have said in other posts ... before we start promoting the type of health care they have in Europe, we need to talk to the general populace over there .. because the individuals I have spoken to (one a next door neighbor from Germany) do NOT like it and would rather have something else ... including our system ...

As for getting rid of the people who created this mess, I am all for that .. but first, let's find out who they are ... As I recall, aside from the war, even as recently as a year and a half ago things were ok ... Coincidently, we elected a Democrat Congress and things are now where they are ... any connection???

t.

PS ... Any thoughts on my conjecture about Hillary? ... If so, I would like to hear them, in a 'thought sharing' kind of way ...

I have to go pack and get to sleep ... I have an early 4 hour drive to New Jersey tomorrow morning ...
It's been good 'conversing' with you.

t.

Tony-

Hillary Clinton was never really a serious consideration for VP once Obama won the Primary part of this election process. The reasons are many...From the Clinton side, for her to take on a supporting role caused fears within her camp that it would hurt her brand. To go from saying hey, I should be the guy/gal for the job to, well, ok this is cool to to be a VP wasn't appealing.

Really, the Obama people had very little interest in pursuing her because of the massive baggage Obama would have to contend with daily with Hillary just down the hall. Also, relations between Bill C and Obama are chilly at best, and again who would want that combo looking over your shoulder. Too many strings attached to use Hillary at this time.

I do think there's thought towards making her Sec of H&HS so she can assist on a new national health care plan, but in reality-she may feel she can get more down that way...and not be "under" Obama as NY's Senator.

Drive safe!



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Bill in Dayton

This forum is read by members all around the globe, and the inclusion of US politics is badly out of taste here.
It's hard enough to stay civil on keyboard issues ... please don't voice your political views here. It's not the place for it.

All due respect Dave, this thread was titled "What about the bad economy?" It took about ten responses before, as one would expect, the discussion of the economy included the gov't. From there, it was a small step to the current political race.

Unlike a few countries I can think of, we're perfectly free to have a hearty debate and exchange of ideas. It has been mostly polite...more polite some some purely musical threads I can think of, honestly...

That said, this entire thread might be best relocated to the bar as its pretty far from anything musical right now, lol...

Nigel, will no doubt, let us know if he agrees...

Cheers...

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Bill in Dayton

I guess one of the pitfalls of spending most of your time working with "the kids" is that you start treating everyone else like one. The problem is, this board is made up of 'seasoned' adults who are perfectly capable of making their own decisions. It must take a pretty strong sense of moral and intellectual superiority to presume to tell the rest of us what to do. Administrator, yes; self-appointed supervisor, NO.

Truth is, politics (along with poker) is one of the best ways to shed a little light on what goes on behind some of those cyber-egos we've come to know as Fran, Diki, chas, Capt. Russ, Donny, Kingfrog, Uncle Dave (for instance, now we get a clue as to why he thinks of himself as 'Uncle' to the rest of us), DonM, SqueakD, et al.

I think that requests to prohibit certain topics should be made to the administrator and not simply issued as an edict by any member who somehow feels entitled to do so. Just my opinion, though.

chas

Chas,
Technically you may be right, but that doesn't negate what I think Uncle Dave meant.

If I remember well from previous occasions in the forum, or draw from experience in every aspect of life, "discussing" politics (even among seemingly mature adults) in a "closed environment" such as a forum or a company office is a perfect and quick way to produce chaos, hence the suggestion to "restrict" this forum to arrangers only.

Remember, in the past, even threads about arrangers have spiralled to hate mail and personal accusations that led members to leave the forum.

Perhaps the topic relocation to the Bar may serve both parties.

I was attending a sailing school class and the guys/teachers there said "Remember, when out sailing, NEVER bring up a discussion about those 3 things: Politics, religion and soccer... lest one of you will end up in the sea"

I posted a similar question at "The Bar", with 12 total rsponses, including three from me and multiples from others. Looks like no-one really pays much attention to the Bar. My post there was before this one started.

Russ

Trident, actually I agree with you. I rarely have a problem with anything presented in the form of a SUGGESTION.

chas