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#239594 - 08/07/08 02:16 AM The 4th piece is here!
bomba6 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Israel

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#239595 - 08/07/08 07:16 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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#239596 - 08/07/08 09:19 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
Wake up, soon you can play a realy good keyboard . . . . and it isnt a Roland .

Impuls,
_________________________
Genos2,Yamaha YC61, Ventilator2 . : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA

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#239597 - 08/07/08 09:19 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Fluke73 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Sweden
I've also updated my speculation image:



And here is a comparison between the Tyros 3 and Tyros 2



For more images check out my page:
http://www.flukeworld.com/Yamaha-Tyros-3-phase-3.gif

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#239598 - 08/07/08 09:45 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Its just the silliness of their marketing technic which is boring already..........

"Wheres The Beef?"

PS as far as the new Roland TOTL Arranger ....

Be Affraid.....BE VERY AFFRAID

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#239599 - 08/07/08 09:53 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
TwoNuts Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 430
Loc: Vancouver, Washington. USA
Uh....

Wheres the power button on the T-3?
Looks as if they lost it...

D.
_________________________
Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

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#239600 - 08/07/08 09:57 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
Donny,
I hope your right. I think Roland is one of the dark horses in the arranger race. The new Fantom G7 has some amazing features and sounds and putting that bad boy in an arranger would be super. Just imagine the analysis paralysis that is going to go on between deciding to purchase the T3,Pa2xpro, and the new Roland!!!

Al

Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Its just the silliness of their marketing technic which is boring already..........

"Wheres The Beef?"

PS as far as the new Roland TOTL Arranger ....

Be Affraid.....BE VERY AFFRAID
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#239601 - 08/07/08 10:59 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Al....hang in there its gonna be HUGE!!!!

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#239602 - 08/07/08 11:22 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Sounds like its been mixed to sound like an old record (Cracks and pops) which would be the vintage of the song style used, should be interesting to see if this recording system is actually built into Tyros 3, or was done by external equipment.


Bil
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#239603 - 08/07/08 01:12 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
PS as far as the new Roland TOTL Arranger ....

Be Affraid.....BE VERY AFFRAID


What, be afraid of retiring before it comes?

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#239604 - 08/07/08 01:15 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Don't know about Wersi's, Bill, but record noise samples have been built into Roland's and Korg's (and probably Yamaha's) for quite some time, now (had them in the G1000, for sure).

The thing is, few styles ever use them, or the band limiting EQ that makes the clarinet demo so effective. But this is not to say they don't already exist on what you have now...

As I have said for a long time, most of the value in a new arranger isn't in the hardware. It's the new styles. Some VERY gifted people work on these, and Yamaha are some of the very best in this department. But, once you hear some of these tricks, it's easy enough to apply them to the arranger you have...

Getting the 'sound' of older recordings is often a case of use of careful EQ... 78's had one kind of EQ curve, vinyl from the fifties had a different curve from the vinyl of the late seventies. Apply these kinds of band limiting EQ tricks on styles you already have will go a long way to capturing that 'vintage' sound. Add a little record noise, and Bob's your uncle!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#239605 - 08/07/08 01:33 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
And I am still amazed at how expectant some are about a new Roland's capabilities (or even appearance!).

For starters, forget the FantomG. Roland have NEVER incorporated this year's latest WS technology in an arranger. Took them over four years or more before they even incorporated OLD Fantom sounds and engine capabilities into the G70. And NONE of the Fantom's loop and audio capabilities were ever ported over.

There seem to be clear indications that future Roland arrangers will be built on the Sonic Cell engine, which is firmly rooted in old Fantom technology. They don't have a product anywhere in their entire catalog that has anything like Mega voice technology (or what little there is is extremely disappointing, compared to even a lowly S900), multipads are nowhere to be seen...

I am confused as to exactly what technology Roland already have that COULD be leveraged into a groundbreaking new Roland. In all fairness, even the FantomG is hardly a great leap forward, except in it's DAW capabilities. What's one of the things it touts the most? Yep, glitch-less patch changes (to a limited degree). We've had that on Roland arrangers for well over a decade...

All I anticipate is a refinement of existing technologies, but to expect Roland to pull a rabbit out of their hat for the arranger division alone is optimistic, at best. One would expect to see groundbreaking technologies across the board if Roland could be reasonably expected to do it for the arranger division as well (probably their LOWEST priority division, from all indications ), but, where is the beef?

Only modern techno and hiphop products like the V-Synth carry any kind of 'next-gen' banner for Roland, these days... Few of us will go wild at the inclusion of this in an arranger

Fixes, refinements, a few more sounds and effects capabilities, MP3 playback and possibly recording, some new styles... To expect any more than this is wildly optimistic, IMO...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#239606 - 08/07/08 02:08 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
jwyvern Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 365
Quoting Diki,
"Don't know about Wersi's, Bill, but record noise samples have been built into Roland's and Korg's (and probably Yamaha's) for quite some time, now (had them in the G1000, for sure)"

Yep the record noise is present in the Dance drum kit on Ty2 (and may be present on earlier PSR's too.)

John

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#239607 - 08/07/08 03:31 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
It is an actual style that you can download already for the T2:
http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/index.php...ype=Style+Files

Scroll down to 20's swing and listen.
It sounds like an old record.

Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#239608 - 08/07/08 04:04 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
this is really disappointing. This demo does nothing for me. Why would you want to sell your T2 to purchase some new bag pipe sounds and cracklin Record sounds in a style ??? Whats up with that ???? If yamaha want buyers to purchase the latest greatest then show us something special .....

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 08-07-2008).]

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#239609 - 08/07/08 05:29 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
TomTomSF Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/99
Posts: 736
Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA, USA
I agree with Spalding. Yamaha is really blowing it by showcasing their new flagship Tyros 3 with a bagpipe and a funky (junky) clarinet and old-timey honky-tonk piano!

Please! Cute novelties, but hardly mainstay playing voices. The next parts of the puzzle better be spectacular, or I'm afraid Yamaha won't be selling many T3's.

Tom G.
_________________________
Tyros 4

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#239610 - 08/07/08 11:14 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I can't believe anyone cares about the demos one way or the other... Unlike Wersi, MS, and probably Ketron, most of us will be able to get our hands on one of these to play for ourselves. So, if the demo is of a musical style you are not into, what's the big deal? When you finally play one, call up the genres that you are likely to use, and see for yourself if it is what you are looking for.

There's far too much member generated hype here... Every arranger that comes out is supposed to be ground-breaking, sound totally new, and totally superior to it's predecessor, apparently. But for the life of me, I can't see where this has ever happened Every arranger is an incremental improvement over it's predecessor, building on the strengths that everyone liked, and correcting a few of it's weaknesses. A few new features get added, but the company is flirting with disaster if it brings something out that is 100% different from it's predecessor.

Mind you, I find it amusing that the very person that expects us to take his word for how good the 'open' system arrangers are supposed to be, (please don't take any notice of the crappy demos ), is the one person that seems the most determined that Yamaha HAVE to provide HIM with outstanding demos, or they are unlikely to sell well!

As far as I am concerned, the demos were fine. Hardly representative of the arranger, in a few cases (but I imagine they were put there to demo the latest SA voices, at least as far as the bagpipes and clarinet go), but how do you demo the T3 with just four examples?

If you want to see what Yamaha are likely to have available for us to listen to by the time the T3 actually hits the stores, I suggest you take a look at the T2 demos page. There are dozens and dozens of audio demos there, covering every conceivable sound and style, plus direct comparisons between older T1 styles and sounds and the T2 versions of the same. Quite excellently put together, I might add. Yamaha certainly know marketing, that's for sure.

But these demos didn't appear until the T2 was actually in the stores. As the T3 stuff will also be...

Have a little patience, and don't even TRY to judge a complex TOTL arranger from a measly four short demo teaser... Ye Gods! "Instant gratification' gone wild!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#239611 - 08/08/08 05:48 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
your taking the comment out of context Diki. These demos are meant to show off the T3 which it does . Unfortunately the demos dont show off the instrument for the better. Noone is relying on these demos to represent all the styles and all the sounds of the latest and greatest, not in the slightest. what is disappointing is that the demos, yamaha have chosen to whet our appetites are hardly awe inspiring are they ? I remember how my jaw dropped when i heard the T2 SA sax and concert guitar. It did not by any means represent the standard of the other sounds on the T2 which are good but not in the same league as the SA voices. But it did actuallly make me want to go out and look for a T2 to demo.But so far i have heard some demos from the T3 that may as well have been the T2 or even T1 when listening to the latest piece of the jigsaw. it just doesnt inspire me to even look for one to try when they come out. But if anyone wants to discard thier T2 for a knock down knock out price let me know !!

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#239612 - 08/08/08 08:26 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
I never fully believe a manufacturer's demos ... it's like digital photography, where I never fully believe that what I am looking at is an exact photo of what the photographer saw ...

t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#239613 - 08/08/08 10:48 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
Wow, DNJ everyone is so fixated on the T3, they blew right by your HUGE assessment of the next Roland Arranger KB.
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#239614 - 08/08/08 11:02 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by spalding:
Unfortunately the demos dont show off the instrument for the better.


Strictly your opinion, spalding... I thought they were fine. The SA clarinet sounded very nice, the jazz guitar was not too shabby, either, and the acoustic piano does sound improved....

What, exactly, were you expecting? GIGA type sounds?

The T2 introduced the first time SA had been heard. Of course, that was a major revelation. But it seems unlikely that Yamaha will bring out something ELSE as groundbreaking as that, merely more examples of the same. More SA voices seems a good thing, doesn't it..?

But, after all, it's YAMAHA we are talking about... What could have possibly given you the expectation that the T3 was going to be radically different from the T2..? Apart from the SA voices, the T2 was hardly a big departure from the T1. I've been saying all along - If the T2 didn't temp anyone away from their current choice, the T3 is unlikely to be different enough to change that decision

You don't seem like the kind of guy that gets sucked in by TV infomercials (ooh..! I GOT to get one of those Sham-WOW's! ), why are we all getting our panties wet over Yamaha's teaser advertising?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#239615 - 08/08/08 03:23 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by kbrkr:
Wow, DNJ everyone is so fixated on the T3, they blew right by your HUGE assessment of the next Roland Arranger KB.


Remember I have Fran (Mr. Roland) in my corner All good things come to those who Wait

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#239616 - 08/08/08 03:37 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
If wishes were dollars we'd all be millionaires
Dennis


PS: That Roland will create another arranger type keyboard, is not in doubt, never was. The conjecture is on the timing and what form it will take.

On the timing, I think it will be quite some time yet, on the form? I dont think it will be 76 notes, perhaps on the "home" variation it may have 76/88, vis-a-vis the Korg PA588. But for the "pro" I reckon they will move permanently to a 61 and extend the E80 with perhaps some Fantom G features.



[This message has been edited by miden (edited 08-08-2008).]

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#239617 - 08/09/08 02:23 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Beakybird Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2227
So it looks like all of those 30 new styles at Yamahamusicsoft.com are from the soon-to-come T3. That is my conjecture because this new demo features the same style as the 20's style available for download at their website.

Will the T3 only offer 30 new styles over the T2?

I thought the demo sounded good, but I guess it wasn't groundbreaking. I think that as these instrument voices get more and more realistic, the TOTL arrangers are going to sound less and less impressive next to their predecessors.

I had downloaded this 20's style. The crackly sounds come from the second drum track. It makes it sound like the music is coming off of an old record.

What sets this clarinet apart is not so much the voice quality as that it was produced by a midi wind controller that is able to do runs and bends that would be almost impossible from a keyboard.

Nevertheless, I think that the T3 will be a tour de force. Just wait.

Beakybird

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#239618 - 08/09/08 03:57 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Every arranger that comes out is supposed to be ground-breaking, sound totally new, and totally superior to it's predecessor, apparently. But for the life of me, I can't see where this has ever happened


1988. Roland E-20. Since then, nothing has been so "ground-breaking", from any manufacturer - Roland included.

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#239619 - 08/09/08 04:44 AM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
I couldn't care less about new T3 sounds or styles there's plenty of good ones available now......
I'm interested in better useful Features & Navigation like...
Much Improved Quality Vocal Harmonizer, Independently activated Style/Smf,Seq Play modes & MP3 with control sliders
Second Mic Input w/EFX & Dual Neutric inputs
Better placement of On Deck buttons
Drum Lock, Bass Lock, Style Lock features also ( this alone will give you endless style combinations)



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-09-2008).]

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#239620 - 08/09/08 12:44 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Beakybird:
What sets this clarinet apart is not so much the voice quality as that it was produced by a midi wind controller that is able to do runs and bends that would be almost impossible from a keyboard.


I don't know if you have been following the thread from The Insider (Andy), Beaky, but you might want to revise that impression... The vast majority of the T2 SA Sax demo was played on a T2 keyboard, with minor editing in a computer sequencer. Most everyone was stating that that one was done on a wind controller, too.

While the Mega parts in some of the Yamaha styles may indeed have been performed initially on a controller, they are computer edited to get the Mega information inserted, but Andy says that most of the T2 demos are done just using keyboards. Those runs might be ALMOST impossible on a keyboard, but not completely impossible!

Amazing what talent can do, isn't it?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#239621 - 08/09/08 06:26 PM Re: The 4th piece is here!
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I don't know if you have been following the thread from The Insider (Andy), Beaky, but you might want to revise that impression... The vast majority of the T2 SA Sax demo was played on a T2 keyboard, with minor editing in a computer sequencer. Most everyone was stating that that one was done on a wind controller, too.

While the Mega parts in some of the Yamaha styles may indeed have been performed initially on a controller, they are computer edited to get the Mega information inserted, but Andy says that most of the T2 demos are done just using keyboards. Those runs might be ALMOST impossible on a keyboard, but not completely impossible!

Amazing what talent can do, isn't it?


Diki,

While the demos that Andy (The Insider) wrote were for the most part played from the Tyros 2 keyboard, that doesn't mean the other Yamaha demos that he didn't create were. I know that some of the demos were in fact done with live musicians using MIDI controllers because I've spoken with the others who wrote and recorded them in person at AES and NAMM. Cubase was the predominant sequencer of choice for those that created the demos and as far as I'm aware none of the demos were actually recorded and played entirely on the instrument.

As I said, a great musician, Cubase, a computer, some massaging and manipulation of notes here and there, and there's your polished professional demo. Not exactly what I'd call playing it real time in one pass but if you're OK with knowing that you can't create the same demo using the instrument by itself, then that's fine. It's like saying I didn't cheat on the test but I did copy four out of a hundred answers off of my buddy when I took a test.

While these clinicians, demo makers, and performers are very talented, the way in which these demos are made allows for them to manipulate the demo in a manner in which it would be near impossible to play live. I'd much rather see the demo played live with no need for external manipulation but that wouldn't necessarily show off the instrument the way the manufacturer wants. Even Peter Baartmans and Michel Voncken use external sequencers to make the MIDI files they use live to back them up. It would be far more impressive if their backing tracks were created and performed entirely on the actual instrument but that's simply not the case.

I remember seeing some manufacturer demos at AES performed live years ago by Chick Corea, Chicago, Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Herbie Hancock, Santana, Dweezil Zappa, and others. They were all played live (yes live), no edits, no sequencers, no manipulated notes, and it sounded awesome. That's what I would classify as true talent as a musician.

Computers are great, they can often make our work easier, but they don't make us better musicians than we actually are. Manipulate those tracks any way you want but the fact remains you can either play it live or you can't.

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