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#236118 - 06/15/08 05:01 PM Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TjaRzpugwY&NR=1

Pretty darn amazing, especially as it's a modeled accordion.

Here's some of his regular playing, with a normal button accordion, with one of the hottest Django wannabes I've ever heard...!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqjJznHOSWA

Jazz heaven!
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#236119 - 06/15/08 07:56 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Diki.....hes one of the best in the world....

he Demos for Roland also...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxFxk4ZaruY&feature=related


simply awesome just watch his fingers !!!!

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#236120 - 06/15/08 09:54 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
He is pretty handy...button acc's are relatively easier to play faster passages on, but are more difficult to learn and become proficient ... I would like to see him on a keyboard style accordion.

Dennis

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#236121 - 06/15/08 11:34 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
adimatis Offline
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Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
here is also someting pretty amazing, i do believe is one of the best accordion player around the world....
also an official demonstrator for roland romania!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-iAMDp1em0

not so very classy, but extraordinary!
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#236122 - 06/15/08 11:45 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by miden:
I would like to see him on a keyboard style accordion.

Dennis


Why hobble him?

Seems to me like he's doing pretty damn well without one!
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#236123 - 06/15/08 11:53 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
And Adi.... shame

C'mon... yes he's got prodigious technique. But he hasn't hardly a trace of the jazz sensibility of Ludovic, the maturity of line, the improvisation...

Beier makes me want to learn the button accordion. What economy of motion! Amazing arpeggios and lines with less motion in the hand than typing this!
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#236124 - 06/16/08 12:23 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Why hobble him?

Seems to me like he's doing pretty damn well without one!



LOL, yeah he is at that!!

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#236125 - 06/16/08 06:33 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
I LOVE IT !!!!!
t.
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#236126 - 06/16/08 11:24 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
adimatis Offline
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Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
And Adi.... shame




diki, my point is there are alot of different type of performances and styles and type of playing that excite us and make us say wow!

technique, feeling, musicality, culture, atitude, all togheter make a player great. the greatest!
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#236127 - 06/17/08 09:51 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
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Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Ludovic fascinates me! I've been listening to his CD (with Angelo DeBarre) for a while now, particularly since I got into Gypsy Jazz.

Does anyone know anything about his personal life? HOW he got to be this good at such a relatively young age? I read that both his parents are musicians, but that's about all I can find on his background.

I'm real interested in knowing more about who this man is and how he got to where he is today.

It's kind of like the Minnesota Fats story. Great pool player, but how he got to be a great pool player and his character makeup is equally interesting!

Lucky

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#236128 - 06/18/08 06:24 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
cassp Offline
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Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
Running thru all those YouTube videos just convinces me that there is so much good music around the world that most of America is ignorant of. Why are we (including myself) enmeshed in this rock n' roll mentality? All we ever hear here is 4 chord pop crap. The vituosity of these accordionists puts what I know to shame.
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#236129 - 06/18/08 06:27 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
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Posts: 43703
Cass....you are so correct it aint funny.....sad but true. But think about it this level of playing is a LIFETIME dedication on your part which is instilled from birth...there is no way around that. As far as the music we all have choices on what to listen to & play despite the majority of commercial garbage you mention.

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#236130 - 06/18/08 06:55 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
cassp Offline
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Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
...As far as the music we all have choices on what to listen to & play despite the majority of commercial garbage you mention.


So right you are. Unfortunately, our commercial airwaves don't even come close to giving our society a flavor of what is out there. Other countries just seem to have a better handle on folk and classical music. I think "richer" is a better term to explain worldwide folk music vs our commercial "whatever it is".
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#236131 - 06/18/08 10:50 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
FAEbGBD Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
I don't know...I have some friends on Skype from all over the world; England, Sweden, China. And it seems like they are all listening to American music. Maybe not exclusively, but most of the young people I've been in contact with... I mean, my friend in China is either talking about Chinese music, or American music; she never starts going on about some famous Netherlands artist. So are they really so much more culturally rich?

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#236132 - 06/18/08 11:19 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
adimatis Offline
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Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
in all fairness, what's the best of america?
the marketing and publicity.

that's is why all over the world people speak english (especially US english), eat McDonald and drink Coke, love rock'n roll, etc. America started alot of things (both good and bad) that everybody else accepted and embraced. strong marketing, no doubt!

who cares about something they do not know?!
obviously, no one.

how much more richness of soul would we gain if we would only be willing to explore this wonderful world!...

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 06-18-2008).]
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#236133 - 06/18/08 11:38 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
So much is marketing ... When Lydia and I were in Italy in 2006 we were amazed at the fact that nearly every where you turned there was a McDonald's or a Burger-King ...
And yet on the main highway, the Auto-Grille had delicious Italian food at reasonable prices ... http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/10/18/on-the-italian-road/

t.
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#236134 - 06/18/08 11:39 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
But we digress ... back to the accordion playing ... which is BEAUTIFUL !!!
t.
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#236135 - 06/18/08 12:43 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
cassp Offline
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Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
But the accordion playing is the basis of my digression. Young and old throughout the world may listen to and enjoy American music, but I feel many other countries have a folk style that transcends into the mainstream. Even though Chinese may not be aware of Italian music or whatever, the fact is that those accordions are NOT being sold to 16 yr olds at the GC or Sam Ash.

Ah, but to get back ON TOPIC... I'm totally blown away by the chromatic button accordions. I haven't seen many of them. An ex-student friend of mine (much more talented than I) has a few concertinas. The regular squeezeboxes are great in their own right, but the Roland V-accordions are amazing.


[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 06-18-2008).]
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#236136 - 06/18/08 01:40 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Cass I'm an old accordion player at heart started at 7yrs old & I still Infuse Accordion into many of my songs. NOW with these high tech arrangers we can have all the great accordion sounds at our fingertips to play simply awesome! Im hoping for Yamaha to incorporate a "BELLOW SHAKE" Mega Voice in Tyros 3 wow that would be Cool!! Especially for Zydeco, and many of the fabulous Italian songs like "Lady Of Spain" etc, etc, ....


Tony My whole family lives in Italy been there many times.....its a whole 'nother world in so many ways after all History there is Thousands of years old vs the USA where its Hundreds. BTW how was the wedding in Sea Bright?

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#236137 - 06/18/08 02:00 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
cassp Offline
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Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
As a little Polish kid, what do you think my first instrument was?

Zydeco? On a Yamaha, on any arranger? Show me! I have been longing for some Zydeco/Cajun styles ever since I started using arrangers. And a bellows shake - I use my volume pedal and choppy, staccato chords. But I'm sure you do too.
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#236138 - 06/18/08 02:22 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
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Posts: 43703
Cass you have mail

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#236139 - 06/18/08 05:27 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quite a number of us here started out as accordion players ... it was the portable instrument of choice in the 50's ... and you didn't have to be concerned about the venue piano being out of tune ...

Donny ... The wedding was great !!! First class (almost) all the way ... only low point was a DJ instead of live music, but they did a pretty good job ... high tech, too ... using 2 lap tops ... no CD's, turntables, nothing but LT and spkrs ...
But the wedding - ceremony on the beach ... tremendous cocktail hour ...choice of filet mignon, talapia or chicken for dinner entree ... all the food was EXCELLENT ... open bar all day ... GREAT reunion with some family we haven't seen in some time ...
BTW ... had dinner the night before at McLoon's on the river ... wonderful ...
t.
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#236140 - 06/18/08 05:58 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Tony sounds like you had a ball...I've played at McCloons for a few private affairs upstairs....but usually they have a nice jazz thing down in the restaurant also or outside also Tim also opened a new one in Ocean in Pier Village in Long Branch!
http://www.shirleysonline.com/
http://www.timmcloone.com/

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#236141 - 06/18/08 10:11 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
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Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
I played the accordion for years in a German Bier Keller in Europe. I was happy, the clientèle was happy, the staff was happy, and…..the boss was happy! I got to play music every day and night that you wouldn’t dare play here (Zorba the Greek…Kalinka…Eviva Espana…Strauss waltzes…German marches, etc). Music you can sink your teeth and your emotions into. Every night when we started the music, immediately the crowd would get up on their long benches at the tables with a pint of lager in their hands, lock arms and dance and swing and sway with each other. This would go on for hours. You could play Zorba every 30 minutes and the crowd would go wild every time.

Fast forward back to here. I returned to the USA and started over again “re-learning” what’s popular here. However, I became absolutely disillusioned in a short amount of time when I began playing here in the States. The music was dull and the people were just as dull (as an audience…of course this is all relative). Even the good music had a subdued ring to it, and of course, had to be COOL because Americans want their music...COOL!

The thorn in my side became New York, NY (Sinatra). To me, it typified the shallowness and polished glitz of American music. Don’t get me wrong...there’s a whole lot of it I like, particularly 70’s Disco and Latin music (which I wasn’t in touch with in Europe), but most days I wish I was back on the Continent playing the real stuff.

One of the top songs in Europe at the time, for many years, was Tie A Yellow Ribbon. When I left that was the last time I got to play it...and enjoy playing it. In Europe, when you play music, people come alive. Here, no matter how well you entertain, it’s like pulling teeth trying to get them to have a good time.

Don’t misinterpret...I don’t knock the folks in this country for their musical shortcomings. They were just never taught to “let go” and feel wholesome, happy music like their European counterparts. Sometimes I look at them and see the child inside trying to crawl out and I feel bad that they grew up in this musically challenged stifled environment we live in.

Yes, there IS a whole new world of music out there that we don’t get to hear in America. I find Americans to be obsessed with jazz (which even a buffoon musician could make work) or, as I said, anything considered to be “cool” because Americans get off on being “cool!”

I consider myself a very lucky man having lived and played in Europe for 10 years. Those were the best 10 musical years of my life, and now that I think of it, my 10 best years period!

When I first moved there, I knew nothing about European music and their listening habits. But I started playing/busking in the streets and studying and researching the music every day. I’d listen to the music presentation on the BBC daily and write down every song title. Easy enough as there were only 4 channels at the time. I’d make notes of any song that was ever mentioned or requested and go out and by the sheet music and learn it immediately. The more I studied European music, the more insatiable my appetite for it grew. It’s non-gimmicky music with real melody lines, bright, lively, happy, fun, moving, emotional, etc. Then I even graduated to French musette and this was the most fun I ever had playing music. Couldn’t get enough of it.

To this day, I wish I could go back and re-live those years. But as Tony Mads said:

“every where you turned there was a McDonald's or a Burger-King.”

In came the fast food joints and juke boxes and out went traditional music in mainstream Europe.

Lucky

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#236142 - 06/18/08 10:25 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
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Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Quote:
Originally posted by tony mads usa:
[B]Quite a number of us here started out as accordion players ... it was the portable instrument of choice in the 50's ... and you didn't have to be concerned about the venue piano being out of tune ...


I never thought about that. I always assumed everyone here started out as a keyboard player. How many of you folks are former accordionists? How many of you will admit to it like Donny did?

It took me 2-3 years to make the transition before I was comfortable with my left hand on a horizontal keyboard. And, after all these years, I still sometimes think like an accordionist when I'm playing arrangers. Mostly with chord progressions where I tend to think of the circle of fifths on the bass side of the accordion.

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#236143 - 06/19/08 05:35 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
cassp Offline
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Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
First of all, Lucky that was a fantastic post! It hit right to the heart of the situation.

As for accordion, I started out at 8 yrs old. To this day I use the concept of the circle of fifths and fourths, alternate bass, key signatures... the whole left hand concept. That's also why the chromatic button system piqued my interest. I know it's been around forever, but I finally saw the artistry of it in those Ludovic videos.

Oh, and one more thing... how can you not credit accordion playing with note phrasing. Piano and its pedals has it nuances, and so does organ with its volume pedal, but the accordion with the bellows going in and out is/was a major factor in how I phrased my songs. Mentally I still do that. When people comment on how natural my phrasing is I always give credit to those early years on the accordion.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 06-19-2008).]
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#236144 - 06/19/08 09:11 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
I AM AN ACCORDION PLAYER, AND i'M PROUD OF IT !!!!!
Started playing accordion at age 13 ... Didn't study music before that ... Played in accordion contests in various states ... played Carnegie Hall with an accordion symphony orchestra !!! .. the only part of being an accordion player that I am embarrassed about is the fact that I haven't played it in DECADES !!! DAMN, I have to get that box out from under the steps!!!

And like cass and Lucky, I still think like an accordionist as far as the left hand is concerned - which, unfortunately, is not always good as a keyboard player ...
t.
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#236145 - 06/19/08 09:18 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Tony sounds like you had a ball...I've played at McCloons for a few private affairs upstairs....but usually they have a nice jazz thing down in the restaurant also or outside also Tim also opened a new one in Ocean in Pier Village in Long Branch!
http://www.shirleysonline.com/
http://www.timmcloone.com/



Donny ... On Monday before we left we walked the boardwalk from Rooney's (where we had some late night blue claw crabs Sunday ) http://rooneysocean.com/
to Pier Village http://www.piervillage.com/
really nice ...
t.
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#236146 - 06/19/08 12:08 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Things are shaping up in that area BIG TIME Tony....Million dollar condos all over, & summer outdoor ice skating too! The more south you go the nicer it gets down where we are & beyond toward Atlantic city & Wildwood/Cape may.

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#236147 - 06/19/08 11:32 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
abacus Offline
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Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
As you are no doubt aware, there are many Keyboard Festivals in Europe, (Really big and popular over here) however they are dwarfed by the number of Accordion festivals.
Another point to note is that all European manufactures of keyboards have versions where the normal keyboard is replaced by Accordion keyboards; (And have done for decades) here is one http://www.wersi.net/html/mywersi-08.html# it is the second up from the bottom, and it is also why Midi modules from Europe integrate seamlessly with Midi Accordions.

Bill
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#236148 - 06/20/08 09:32 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Interesting.... the first "Cordovox" was a 'side-by-side' unit with the treble (piano keys) on the right side and the bass (buttons) on the left side ...
This is the cordovox accordion model I still have: http://www.twiggy.com/A19.JPG


t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 06-20-2008).]
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#236149 - 06/20/08 10:40 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I first played accordion at age 12 after my family moved into temporary housing while our new home was being built that was too small for a piano (which I had just started lessons on at 11). I got a small 48 bass piano accordion, and suddenly music seemed a much less mysterious thing...

Having the buttons and chords laid out in that cycle of fifths suddenly made me realize the spacial relationships between chords, long before I had enough technique on a piano to comprehend it. Almost instantly I started to hear the chord relationships in everything I was listening to, and had an instrument that could make playing those relationships independent of scale technique. Play a song in a different key, and at least your left hand still plays usually the exact same thing, merely moved up or down a little...

This is a huge improvement, especially for a beginner, over the piano keyboard, where every different key needs a different fingering, and looks different on the keyboard... I really think it was the one thing that opened my mind and ears to pop song chord construction, and the mysteries of modulation and transposition, before some classical piano teacher knocked the enthusiasm out of me with boring exercises and Hanon.

It really is a wonderful instrument for a youngster to teach themselves about music, rather than having it spoon-fed by a teacher. I still have an accordion or two (depending on the state of repair!) and have played them on many sessions, and at least once a year (at Christmas) I play it out for caroling. It always brings back great memories!

Squeeze on...!
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#236150 - 06/20/08 11:12 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
BTW, for those of you interested in getting a good bellows 'bounce' and a lively 'chank-a-chank' zydeco and cajun style (amongst many other styles) out of your keyboards, here's a little tip (sorry if this is obvious to some of you )...

This doesn't work too well in style mode, because it's a two-handed technique, but give it a whirl anyway, you might like it!

First things first... You can either practice this over a basic beat from the drums only, or if you want to try on a real tune, try using your built-in sequencer to record just the accompaniment to a favorite tune. Jambalaya has always been a standard of mine for this technique. If you can set it up so the sequencer repeats itself over and over (for practicing!), so much the better...

Now, there's an easy way to do this and a hard one. We are going to do the hard one first You'll see why in a minute.

The trick is to get your hands together, playing the same chord or two note sixth or third, on top of each other. You then play an alternating hand in a fast, simple sixteenth or eighth note pattern... 'chank-a-chank-a-chank-a'! Once you get this smooth, tight and rhythmical (that's the most important quality, it MUST be rhythmic), you can start to change the occasional note in one hand or the other (rarely both) to drop a third to a second or raise it to the fourth, to give some internal motion to the pulse, and you can also try using a three note chord in the RH and a two note chord in the left, to give the downbeats a bit more push... OK, you getting it now?

It's a bit difficult, isn't it?! Getting your hands in that close make things very tight and cramped... But here's where the magic of keyboards comes into play. Split your keyboard. Put the same accordion patch on both halves. Transpose the bottom part until it is in the same range as the upper. OK, now you can play exactly what you just did, but without your hands being on top of each other! This allows you to be a lot more inventive without your fingers getting tangled

It also allows you to try things like editing the patches to be slightly different to each other to emphasize that 'in/out' difference you always hear in the real thing. Mess with the tuning tables if your arranger has them. Make each one slightly out of tune on certain (different) notes to imitate the reed banks differences. Make the LH very slightly duller than the RH, to emphasize the effect you get when the in stroke is stronger than the out pull... And work that volume pedal a bit on the long notes!

With practice, you can get a VERY infectious accordion 'bounce' and 'chank-a-chank' going on all your favorite Louisiana musics, and many, many other styles too.

It's also a great technique for many other sounds, too, like guitar cross-picking, banjo picking, mandolin and many others, whenever a lot of rhythmical notes are being played in a small section of the keyboard...

Give it a try, and 'laissez le bon temps roullez!'
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#236151 - 06/20/08 12:01 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
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Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Diki,

I think I understood everything you said except for...what does chank mean (as in "chank-a-chank-a-chank-a")? Is it a Chinese delicacy?

Aside from that, it's about time somebody broke ranks and wrote about "making music!"

Lucky

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#236152 - 06/20/08 12:51 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
It's just a Louisiana term for that rhythmical way of using the accordion in uptempo zydeco and cajun country musics, rather than as a lead line or counterpoint...

Sounds pretty much like it reads!
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#236153 - 06/20/08 03:12 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Oh, and while chas and Russ recover from their heart attacks let me be the first to be astounded at the suggestion that jazz can be played by buffoons, and 'Tie a Yellow Ribbon' is really the zenith of popular music

There is a reason that American music is listened to around the world. And it has little to do with marketing. This country is the birthplace, nursery and university of musics that go beyond the simple diatonic melodies of the rest of the world. This country is the birthplace of worldwide musical sensations like the blues, jazz, rock and roll, disco, hiphop, rap, bluegrass, jump jive, doo-wop... the list is endless.

And, lest we forget, 'Tie a Yellow Ribbon' was American, too! As were many, many hits from that era that are STILL being performed on a daily basis in Europe. But perhaps they are STILL playing them over there, while the US has moved on, is perhaps also the reason why many of us on arranger forums still play these tunes, too...

BECAUSE THEY ARE EASY TO PLAY...!

There's an awful lot of popular American music that is next to impossible to pull off well on arrangers, with melodies and chord progressions FAR more complex than we can usually manage. And emotion and intensity in the singing that is hard to copy. Without these elements, they sound appalling on the arranger...

But, as far as I am concerned, the harder something is to do well on an arranger, the better the music intrinsically is. Anything that lends itself to sterile, repeated four bar chunks of simple styles with less than cutting edge sounds and drums can hardly be called inventive.

The rest of the world is still happy with mindless repetition of hoary chestnuts from the seventies and MUCH earlier, with nary a change out of the ordinary, which definitely works with their 'happy to be drinking and singing' mindsets (nothing wrong with that, mind you!), relentlessly diatonic melodies for the inebriated singer to slosh through, cameradie flowing like pilsner. Whereas the US is trying to come up with the NEXT worldwide sensation, by trying to be different, NOT the same.

This IS a two way street, BTW. Reggae music and ska has been adopted by Americans with enthusiasm, Bossa and Latin music is loved and admired here. Dancehall makes the charts (Sean Paul, Shabba Ranks). It's not JUST us exporting the stuff, you know. But it has to come with inventiveness, with freshness, with a rhythmical and lyrical complexity not found in most European bierkellars...

Yes, that's certainly HAPPY music over there, Lucky, played to happy people having happy times. Sadly, that doesn't always equate to music that is anything more than adult nursery rhymes! Music at it's most complex, especially jazz (I'd like to meet the buffoon that can race through Giant Steps ) is America's speciality, and deservedly influentioal around the world. BTW, I'm English, so please don't accuse me of partisanship!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#236154 - 06/20/08 09:07 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Wow! Dickie is back with a venegence!

Some meandering thoughts as follows…

Dickie, I’m talking about music as an entertainment medium not as a platform to show off your chops nor as a product to mold into something ultimately unrecognizable from it‘s original form. It’s all about entertainment and what folks want to hear. There’s a huge difference and I’m presenting my case accordingly.

No, Tie A Yellow Ribbon is NOT the zenith of popular music. I should have said Che Sera, Sera the Doris Day song from the 50’s is.

I played in Europe almost every night for many years…and….played in the streets for just as many years. So I’m playing the accordion (busking) and egotistically doing things like Dizzy Fingers, Tico Tico, and French Musette to show people how good I was. They didn’t care…..and…..I didn’t make any money. One day I asked the guitarist, who was sharing my busking spot with me, why he played the same four songs over and over again. His reply was he could “play many songs, but they’re the only songs that make me money.” With that in mind, I looked at my own repertoire. I noticed that whenever I played Che Sera Sera, while busking, my accordion case would begin to fill up with money and when I DIDN’T play it, I’d go through a dry spell. I also remember the day I “worked” the tourist queue at one of the historic sites with a tin cup attached to my accordion. I played nothing but the Blue Danube Waltz up and down the line for hours and made a small fortune by the end of the day.

About the same time, I was working with a German guitar player at night in the Hilton in London. We had been doing German music together for about a year at that point. One night he asked me to stop playing my Stauss waltzes and German beer-drinking stuff with sixths and major sevenths. In fact, he asked me to play with “one finger” from then on…another way of saying people want to hear “simple” music and not to make everything so “rich” in chord structure.

He was right. What I learned is to “play a European format and play it simple, with emotion, and to concentrate on playing the melody! NOT like this “dressed up” garbage music of today that America also invented.

Smart musicians know what an audience wants. If arranger keyboardists are not learning anything beyond the 70’s it’s because the people they’re playing to don’t want to hear it. They want to hear pre-70‘s songs that still have melodies.

Modern music is completely devoid of melody…it’s felt rather than heard (boom boom as the dance floor goes up and down at 140 BPM at 120 db).

Americans crave this discombobulated music as it is today, because they need to get their minds off of their problems. The more aggressive it is, the less are the chances of sinking into a reflective state of mind where they would have to address anything going on inside of them. Easier to distract themselves with music they can’t figure out!

My opinion of the difference between European music and American music is this: American music, from the 80’s to the present, is aggressive and is served up with gimmicks to dress up an empty dish, African rhythms to give it “movement,” painful volumes that cause your ears to bleed, and dedicated song stylists to cover up the fact that there is actually no melody line. European music is just plain raw fun, happy, and “feel-good.” I won’t deny that America has been the birth of many musical forms and has produced an incredible amount of wonderfully imaginative songs over the years. But the old saying applies here: “If it don’t need fixin,’ don’t repair it!” America should have left well enough alone before it proceeded to deflower it’s great American musical heritage.

You wrote: “Whereas the US is trying to come up with the NEXT worldwide sensation, by trying to be different, NOT the same.”

Who cares if the US comes up with some worldwide sensation. That’s like politics. Every time a new politician gets voted into office, he has to make changes. Doesn’t matter if the old procedures work just fine….got to make changes!

When I say jazz can be played by any musical buffoon on a tin piano, I meant simple jazz lines like scale runs and common chord substitutions, etc. I’m NOT talking jazz greats who really know their stuff. I’m talking average lounge musicians who can’t play melody lines effectively so they play syncopated “scale runs” that are interpreted as “cool” and everyone goes “Wow…can he play!” Sure he can play…..scale runs and broken chords that any “musical buffoon” can play!

My disclaimer here is this is all opinion based on experience since I haven’t played in Europe for 20 years now and I’m really not conversant with what it’s like there nowadays. But I know when I play an event here and Europeans are part of the crowd, I can tell immediately as they are the first ones on the dance floor to do a waltz (what I consider to be the world‘s first contact sport). This is unheard of with an American audience! You’d think they were still wearing their car seat belts!

Dickie...are you by any chance an orator? How long does it take you to write something like what you wrote above me here?

Lucky

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#236155 - 06/21/08 12:23 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, Lucky... It all comes out as one long stream of consciousness (probably why I get in so much trouble! )

I have to admit, I am torn between European sensibilities towards music, and American ones. Been here for over 25 years, and yes, there are many things about Europeans, and their zest for life and participatory attitudes towards music that I miss over here greatly. Going to a football game is not the musical experience it is in England, that's for sure!

But, in fairness, I still have to disagree with your assessment of how people respond to more advanced playing over there to here. Sure, busking involves the lowest common denominator in most parts of the world, but you'll also have to face that jazz, as practiced by it's best (and what point is there in discussing any less? ANY form of music played by lesser mortals is a diminution of the real thing, whether jazz or anything else) is probably more respected, admired, and practiced by Europeans (or Americans in Europe) than it is over here, nowadays. So much for European sensibility!

Of course, I miss the Old World's joy of participation in music... Try to start a sing-along over here is the FASTEST way to kill a room , but on the other hand, play something they really like, and you get a level of sheer LISTENING that I didn't see in England that much. They (the English) want to join in, NOT listen, in many bars...

And also I'm sorry, but tailoring my repertoire for the audience I have is just as important here as anywhere else. Sure, I've got to trot out Margaritaville once a night, even Brown Eyed Girl, but if I play Baker Street, or some obscure UB40 thing, even if it isn't their first choice, do it justice and they still go crazy! I think that is the determining factor... In Europe, no matter how bad (or good!) you are, play the old chestnuts and you are in business. Over here, not even that can save you if you suck... Which way is better? Depends on how good you are, I guess!

In Europe, most music made in the last 50 years or more has either been heavily influenced by local folk musics, or heavily influenced by American music. Heck, even the Beatles started out as little more than a Chuck Berry influenced rock and roll band.

And while modern American music may not be to all us older types' taste, there is no doubt it is having the same influence on the world's music as anything from the sixties and seventies (or earlier!). From Bollywood to Latin, hiphop is making it's presence felt. Whether you like this is up to you, but let's face it... the influence is in that direction, not the other way around. To blame this on marketing is to ignore the basic principle... You can't make people like something if they DON'T. You can do a good job of selling them it when they DO, but you can't MAKE them like something (try it if you don't believe me!)...

I made a good living playing La Paloma Blanca and Tie a Yellow Ribbon back in the day in England. To be honest, the fact that I CAN'T over here is, IMO, a sign that things over here are quite healthy, as far as music and the public goes Sure, I may not be very good at playing the latest Snoop Dog or Timbalake cut, but at least, whether we like it or not, people over here are listening to something NEW, not mired in singing the same old forty or fifty year old hits their parents used to dance to!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#236156 - 06/21/08 04:13 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Can we get back to the Accordion
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#236157 - 06/21/08 04:15 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
as far as music and the public goes Sure, I may not be very good at playing the latest Snoop Dog or Timbalake cut, but at least, whether we like it or not, people over here are listening to something NEW, not mired in singing the same old forty or fifty year old hits their parents used to dance to!


Better look again....those 60+yr old hits are Bigger then ever before with Millions of people STILL enjoying, listening & dancing too vs most of today's crap that will never be remembered years from now.
Now where's my new Sinatra CD "Nothing But The Best" I have to sit back & relax with some headphones on by the pool....
http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-But-Best-Frank-Sinatra/dp/B0013L5M08



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-21-2008).]

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#236158 - 06/21/08 04:52 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
People sometimes don't know what they like, but they like what they know.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#236159 - 06/21/08 11:03 AM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, Donny, but when Sinatra came out, or Do-wop, your grandparents were saying exactly the same thing... 'This is a gimmick, it'll never get played once you get older, it sucks compared to what WE used to listen to' blah, blah, blah...

And yet, here you are, proving them wrong. As your grandkids will prove YOU wrong. And so it goes...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#236160 - 06/21/08 12:16 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
This doesn't work too well in style mode, because it's a two-handed technique, but give it a whirl anyway, you might like it!
Split your keyboard. Put the same accordion patch on both halves. Transpose the bottom part until it is in the same range as the upper. OK, now you can play exactly what you just did, but without your hands being on top of each other! This allows you to be a lot more inventive without your fingers getting tangled



I've used this same split keyboard technique for many years on piano and organ patches(among others)...works like a charm...great for playing rhythm.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#236161 - 06/21/08 01:11 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Sorry, Donny, but when Sinatra came out, or Do-wop, your grandparents were saying exactly the same thing... 'This is a gimmick, it'll never get played once you get older, it sucks compared to what WE used to listen to' blah, blah, blah...

And yet, here you are, proving them wrong. As your grandkids will prove YOU wrong. And so it goes...



I'm glad we have choices in our music

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#236162 - 06/26/08 09:47 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Lucky2Bhere Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
[B] Better look again....those 60+yr old hits are Bigger then ever before with Millions of people STILL enjoying, listening & dancing too vs most of today's crap that will never be remembered years from now.



Diki,

Donny said more here in one sentence than we did in 3 pages!

Lucky

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#236163 - 06/26/08 09:51 PM Re: Wow! Now this is accordion playing!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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