How it all started. http://organfax.co.uk/media/spotlights/view/brettwales.htm
Enjoy

Bill



[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 06-02-2008).]

Thanx Bill....

Great read!

I was less impressed with Brett's playing when I learned he plays over backing tracks.

Even so, he still manages to put on a nice performance.

Thanks for the info, Bill.

Ian

Backing tracks, Styles, SMF, Mp3's whats the difference? Hes a great player.
http://www.meos.org.uk/Brett%20Wales%2025th%20March%202003.htm

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-04-2008).]

The difference is he is not actually playing all the parts...that's all.

He is still pretty good.

Most great concert organists only relied on a percussion track at the most.

Ian

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
[B]Backing tracks, Styles, SMF, Mp3's whats the difference?

The difference is that with MP3's or SMF's over styles is that a recognisable tune is still playing even when you take your hands away from the keyboard.

I think quite a few of my SMFs would challenge you on that point. Perhaps you MIGHT recognize the tune from the bass and drums, but maybe not. That's all are in a lot of my sequences.

How much is in the SMF is entirely up to you and your skill level, and desire to actually PLAY as much as you possibly can. For some, that's everything except (or sometimes including!) the melody. For some it's nothing more than the drums, or maybe drums and bass. First thing I do with ANY sequence I get (if I don't make it myself) is to strip away EVERYTHING but the drums...(gotta LOVE that MUTE button in the Makeup Tools! ). Can I make it work like this? No..? OK, I'll add back the bass part. NOW, can I make it work? Usually, yes, but if still no, what's the LEAST I can use?

Generalizations like yours only show how much YOU would use, IMO....

Jusy like when your using styles eh

So now Bret Whales ia a faker?

Firstly, Donny, if I was playing organ...I used to demo Electones...I would use no styles or SMF at all.

Except for the drum machine...the music would actually be played by my two hands and feet.

Brett is playing over a recording...sometimes he even uses MP3...not impressive to me....maybe to you because you have to use SMF/MP3 for your act and you can identify with him

I don't.

An arranger doesn't have the advantage of a 25-32 note bass pedalboard or two manuals...that's why I use styles... my own by the way...plus, I've grown lazier since my Electone days.

Ian

Ian ....what ever works for you, I personally think its too boring after a while just listening to just Organ/pedals, I use it all in my shows & hope to add more as it is introduced.....BTW those are originally Yamaha styles edited no? or did you create them ALL from scratch track by track, variation & Intro/Endings?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-05-2008).]

Of course they are edited styles, Donny...what would I want with making them from scratch?

I'm lazy, for one thing, and the parts from other styles are already correct in regards to note limits, and NTR, NTT and RTR.

I play my own intros and endings over the style...don't want canned ones.

My edited styles are different enough to give me my own sound...that's all I want.

By the way...how do you make styles?

Ian

make styles?.....Ian I make great music

That's true, Donny, you are fine singer and performer...the best on SZ in my opinion.

Ian

Ian ......I just do my job & do it to the best of my experience & abilities...
Thank you....your no slouch either my Northern friend!! I love your work & arrangements.

Carry on!

And Simon Cowell would write both of you off as a load of rubbish. Just like all the rest of us that play these ghastly things.

We're all living on borrowed time as he has made it clear that when he becomes Prime Minister/President he will ban them.

Don't bother with the T3 Yamaha. You won't be allowed to sell them. If you're gonna throw them away I willing to take one (or 2) off your hands.

Trevor

Good one, Trevor!

Our music is much better than it sounds!

When did assembling styles out of other already created styles (by other people) become 'creating our own styles'?

If I did this with an SMF, it would be 'editing' a commercial SMF. Since when did doing the same thing to a style become 'creation'?!

I know that even doing this is rare amongst arranger players, but I'm sure that someone that makes styles from scratch is sitting around going 'he just took some of my work, and some of someone else's, and now he's calling it CREATING a style?? '

Perhaps we ought to start calling it 'editing' our own styles, just to distinguish between those that actually DO create their own styles, and those that edit other's..?

I certainly wouldn't want to claim that an edited commercial SMF (or any third party one), no matter HOW much better I make it, is 'created' by me...

Hey, Frankenstein used spare parts to make his "creation".

Whatever ever gets the job done..."editing" or, more accurately "assembling" is probably the best term to describe what I do with styles.

Ian Stein

We all make changes to our styles, levels, FX, sounds, assembly, record new parts, that's what an arranger is for....these are features nobody talks about within the workings inside these wonderful instruments. Everyone just wants their styles to sound good out of the box without the work to MAKE SOUND GREAT. Its all in there take a look Originally you cant say its your own, but you can certainly Make it to your satisfaction thru tweaking & editing in so many ways if needed. This is why the manual is never enough & quality Instructional DVDS need to me made available for EACH feature in depth in an easily to understand format for all to learn from. Some really good ones on the Pa800 were made which is a step in the right direction for sure.....now if they would all follow suit with extensive DVD workshops at affordable prices for all to view. but , HEY, Wait a minute, then you would learn your keyboard TOO well & fall in love with it and NEVER want to get rid of it & companies won't make any money on new Models Hmmmmmmmmm ?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-05-2008).]

There is a world of difference between 'assembling' a style into a new one, and creating one from scratch. Not that there is anything wrong with doing that, and it's results can often sound quite unique. But the skill set to do it is totally different from style CREATION.

Let's face it - to make a style from scratch, to close to factory standards (what's the point of a style that is LESS, anyway? ), you need quite prodigious skills at emulating real instruments. Drums, and guitars, especially, are techniques that are alien to keyboard players, and it takes a LOT of study to create something that sounds like the real thing on both of these.

In fact, a lot of the best factory styles from the top manufacturers are created by a TEAM of players, often using MIDI drum kits and MIDI guitars in the hands of REAL players. This is why, I think, that you don't see the manufacturers releasing a whole lot of new styles in between model changes. They have got to be fairly expensive to produce, and the manufacturers know that the minute they sell one, we trade them around like bubblegum cards. So, very little chance of recouping the cost.

I sometimes wish that the manufacturers could use some kind of copy-protection (maybe tied to the hardware, which can't be cracked) for factory styles, then they would get a guaranteed income from EVERYONE who use the style, rather than just from the first person who buys it, and then shares it with all his friends. I know, on the one hand, this would make sharing it harder, but on the other hand, it would encourage the manufacturers to continue style development using these incredibly gifted teams of players in between model releases.

Certainly, I tend to feel that the best, most dynamic, exciting styles have always come from the factory, and user 'created' styles (from scratch) never quite get there. So anything that encourages them to continue churning out these killer styles, even if it involves some inconvenience to us all might be a good thing.

Naturally, this copy-protection would apply ONLY to these new styles, but we have GOT to find a way to somehow allow them to make some profit off new styles, or we end up with what we have now... Basically, NOTHING much new from the factory until a new model comes out (and then it might not work with the older model).

That's FAR too long a wait for high quality styles, if you ask me...!

Yep, creating a style from scratch is an art...the factory styles are made using software...programming a style from scratch on the keyboard is less than satisfactory, and a bit daunting for most, as you are restricted to certain chords and are limited in what notes use for phrases.

Assembly is much easier, and the results are usually quite satisfying.

Michael Bedesem and Jorgan have programs that convert styles between Yamaha models...pretty handy, and great for getting parts out of the older styles.

I like making...er...editing styles...it's fun and gives the keyboard a whole new life.

Ian