While I won't run right out and play "Round Midnight" in a chicken hat for Chas, he does do the "wise ole sage" thing occasionally, and hit a topic right on the head.

His description of the differences in attitudes and the dynamic of the relationships between musicians and entertainers was dead on (Mikey's post on arrangers).

He also made a refrence to the need to define "success".

In our business that's a pretty heavy, sometimes involved concept. Ray Brown told me a few years before he passed on that he had made about as much the previous year as I had the last year in my corporate days. Here's a guy at the top of his game; world renown as the best in his field.

I was a moderately successful corporate director. There were thousands of people in similar jobs doing as well or better than I was, financially.

How do you define success as it relates to your involvement in music?

For our purposes here, lets not limit the paramaters to financial compensation.

Should be interesting...


Russ

When I play at Church, success to me is the emotion felt by my congregation, by the music I provide.

When I play out, success is knowing I did my best to provide the best possible show I could.

When I create music, success is knowing I put my best creative thoughts, with the tools I have to create the final song and recording.

Dan O'


------------------
http://www.esnips.com/web/Songs

When I see the faces of the KIDS or the Seniors in a Wheel chair when I put a chicken hat on them dancing in a circle or sing a love song to a sick person which brings a tear or old memory or.....
God Bless America to wounded Veterans while they can hardly stand on crutches to sing with me,

Doing it day after day for 40 years ....

I have arrived for Them, & in my Heart!!

Now that's Success bar none!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-25-2008).]

Donny, Perfectly Put!

Maybe my chicken can come to NJ to meet your chicken. I use the elope chicken hat, It that the version you use.

Poultry Rocks!!

------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.1000colorcards.com

Mikey these work great !!!
http://tinyurl.com/6rnt8j

Success is not measured in finances..but in happiness...

I know of many friends and associates that are "rich" financially..and "poor" in their happiness..

I also have a couple friends that are successful financially and are happy..

For me I am blessed beyond measure...Family, health, and totally happy in what ever I do.....That is success..

I go by the wise words of Albert Schweitzer, "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful".

Ian

Success for me is finally having the choice to say no to things and gigs I do not want to do.

Its getting to go to work rather than HAVING to go to work. It's taken 30 years to get there and putting off and sacrificing many things I no longer have to put off. Most of which I do not even want anymore...and never needed in the first place.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 04-25-2008).]

I agree

Success is playing 500 NH gigs a year, and never having to work with those pesky 'musicians' that keep coming up to me and telling me I'm 'cheating'

Success is turning up at the gig and inflating my pocket arranger and PA

Success is walking out into the crowd, and having no-one even care I'm not playing (or if I ever was!)

Success means never having to learn to play, and still being booked solidly [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/eek.gif[/img]

Lot of 'successful' musicians here... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

It could be having roadies like Fran manages to snag...gee, I hope I spelled that last word right.

Ian

Diki man that arranger chip on your should keeps getting bigger & bigger eh?
You need t give it a break already, its getting tired at best. Just be thankful you play music for a living in what ever way you do it if its working for you.....your way is not every one's cup of tea. But I have to give credit to anyone who makes a whole hearted effort in this business and makes it a success in any way possible.


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-25-2008).]

And I guess success is also being as sarcastic as one wants to be, whenever one wants to be [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img] ...

t. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/cool.gif[/img]

And you wonder why members don't post their work on this site????

NAH! I'm not gonna' get into this one.

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Zuki "correctomundo" as Ian would say .....thank goodness for private emails where we still can share things with whomever
I think the posting of songs here scenario is well over with whatever peoples reasons & attitudes, or excuses are. Lets just enjoy the discussions & move on.


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-25-2008).]

I think that the lack of somewhere on THIS forum for posting performances, is possibly one very good reason there is not a lot more posting by members.

I see on other forums with this facility, people (some who frequent this forum) have no issue with posting music for others to enjoy.

This is not a criticism of how Nigel runs it, it is his forum and he is entitled to run it anyway he likes, it is just an observation.

I for one never use download servers, for security and spam reasons.

We should always remember there are many reasons why people do, or do not do things, and those reasons may not necessarily be what we think or assume.

Success is not falling off the end of that big old tromone.

Ian

One two cha cha cha.



------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala

Success for me some day will be when I grow my hair long and straggly. Then I'll play a beach community somewhere on the coast of Florida to an audience of drunks and pot heads. Hey man that would be cool,eh. Then I can sit back and laugh at those who play nursing homes for kind old folks, who deserve the respect, compassion they are getting from one man band nursing home entertainers.

Sorry Capt Russ, some things just go up my backside sideways.

Hey Steve,

I need to call you. Saturday OK?

zuki

Zuki, you've got mail.

I would like to play in an Italian restaurant - in Italy. I'm on my way - I play in a pizzaria in Norristown.
Ciao,
Jerry

Thanks for the great link Donny,

Diki, I'd sure love to hear your stuff someday. Maybe you could give lessons here and give all registered users a discount.

Why do you take that word "cheaters" that I posted about, re-explained and even emailed you personally to clarify and continue to bust beans over it?

You should start your own forum and have your fanclub join. The three of you could have a great time together. Your nothing but a pompus "Pain in the Butt"

Sorry Guys, I had to open my mouth.



------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.1000colorcards.com

Diki, there is no reason to be mean spirited.

I enjoy a lot of your posts, because you are knowledgeable and occasionally entertaining. But sometimes you are a jerk.

Life is too short to be making a concerted effort to bring pain to others for no special reason.

Someday you might be one of those old seniors in the nursing home, and you might be appreciating someone coming in and setting up their equipment and playing and singing some songs that you were into when you were younger. Or maybe you will be one of those old cantankerous farts who only stays in their room.

Beakybird

Success means being called a jerk by the very people I am quoting (or paraphrasing )...

Maybe if these attitudes upset you, you might not bring them up yourselves. Look, I didn't make up ONE of those quotes. A little exaggeration, sure, but in essence, everything there HAS been a point one of YOU have made.

Maybe it just sounds snarkier if I say it. But when you say it, who's being the jerk then?

Maybe it IS cool to put down working with other musicians... (but if I did it, I would be elitist, eh?)

Maybe it IS cool to rub everyone's face in how many gigs you do... (but I guess if I did it, I would be a braggart, eh?)

BTW, WHERE the gigs were wasn't the point. I've no problem with the venue or the audience, or the people that play them. But maybe crowing about the number played, rather than talking about the MUSIC, might go up my chute sideways, too...

Maybe it IS cool to ridicule equipment that is heavier than a flyweight toy (but if I did it, I would be a weakling?)

Maybe it IS cool to not play while your MP3 carries you (but if I did that, would I be 'cheating'?)

BTW, Beaky, this wasn't aimed at you. That 'cheating' thread has been re-hashed here SO many times, trust me, you are only the last in a LONG line of members that keep bringing it up. It always gets the same responses, too

Maybe it IS cool to not have to learn to play (but if I did that, I wouldn't be here!)

Yes, my post was absurd and a bit mean... and so are all those attitudes. So, who's the jerk? Me for saying them, or some others for HAVING them?

Success is being pilloried for showing SOME folk a reflection of themselves (even if it was a fun-house mirror )....

I think everyone should have seen this was a "tongue in cheek" reply.

Found this gem on Victor Wooten's site. It's great to reflect on when mean spirted words seem easier to say than nothing at all:



The Test of Three

In ancient Greece, Socrates (469 - 399 BC) was widely lauded for his
wisdom.

One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance who ran up to
him excitedly and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about
one of your students?"

"Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell me I'd like you to
pass a little test. It's called the Test of Three."

"Three?"

"That's right, Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my
student let's take a moment to test what you're going to say. The first
test is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to
tell me is true?"

No," the man said, "actually I just heard about it." "All right," said
Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or not.

Now let's try the second test, the test of Goodness. Is what you are
about to tell me about my student something good?"

"No, on the contrary..."

"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him
even though you're not certain it's true?"

The man shrugged, a little embarrassed.

Socrates continued. "You may still pass though, because there is a third
test - the filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about my
student going to be useful to me?"

No, not really..."

"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither True
nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?"

The man was defeated and ashamed.

I like these words by Henri Frederic Amiel...

"There is no respect for others without humility in one's self."

And this other saying, I posted before, by the same author...

"We are never more discontented with others than when we are discontented with ourselves."

Ian

PS...I don't usually defend Diki...no fun in that...but I have a feeling his first post was not meant to be taken seriously.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-26-2008).]

That's because he wasn't a member of SynthZone.

chas

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 04-26-2008).]

And it certainly is.......


time for the lock?

I just slapped myself in the face for thinking, at one time, this group consisted of one big happy, family. Funny how the penny drops one day. Still I get a lot out of reading these posts, but I’m starting to understand that musicians are a unique breed no matter where you find them.

BTW: I thought most of these responses were good (and sincere), but my vote, if it's alright with Simon Cowell, goes to Dan01 for the following:

“When I play at Church, success to me is the emotion felt by my congregation, by the music I provide.”

“When I play out, success is knowing I did my best to provide the best possible show I could.”

“When I create music, success is knowing I put my best creative thoughts, with the tools I have to create the final long and recording.”


It would be nice if we could remember we were given our talent from our Higher Power for a reason. That reason was NOT to bicker over who’s a pro, who’s NOT a pro, is 76 keys better than 61 keys but only 7/8 of 88 keys, who wants or doesn’t want to post their music, who has a legit musical track record, who’s a newbie on the Zone and not entitled to express an opinion, etc.

That reason was going out and making those who were NOT given the talent happy with what we WERE given. Sometimes I need to step back and look at how blessed I was to go through life with the ability to make music. I think many of us, INCLUDING myself, and particularly those who have played all their lives tend to sometimes fall into the “take it for granted” trap.

What do you think?

Lucky

You're spot on Lucky (and DanO). I am truly blessed to be in the position of not just bringing joy to the elderly, but also for the bliss of playing an instrument. Many people tell me they would give anything to play.

One resident caught me off guard. I was telling her the joy I have playing and that I was taught by my dad. She said "then you must know how much joy your dad had in his life". Reflecting back, it brought tears to my eyes.

So, go on, do your thing and be happy with yourself - I sure am, regardless of my level of competence or what I'm playing.



[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 04-26-2008).]

Your half right, Lucky...it is a family...but, like most families, it's dysfunctional.

And, you're right...it is easy to forget how lucky we are...but isn't that basic human nature?

We all need to be reminded. At times our own light goes out and it's nice to have it re-lit by a spark from another person.

All most of us on this forum want is to be appreciated for what we do...pretty simple, eh?

Ian

OF COURSE, we are one, big, happy, family ... and what family doesn't have some nonsensical bickering from time to time ?!? ...

t.

For those I've TRULY offended, I am sorry.

Yes, a few 'got it' and many didn't. That's my fault for having an underdeveloped skill with smileys (where DOES Ian get all those cool ones?)

I don't want to rehash old news, nor open new wounds, so I'll be brief.

To take the topic more seriously (from the initial post, I was under the impression this might be a lighthearted thread, my mistake!), let me say I already consider myself, and anyone who loves music, and music making successful. Many's the member here who now plays full time, and few look at previous occupations with as much love. THAT's success.

Success for me will be keeling over and passing on in the middle of a great tune! It might not be much fun for the audience, but 'apres moi, le deluge'!

But, if I linger a while, on my deathbed, my fondest memories will probably be of the great musicians I have had the privilege of playing with, and NOT what my favorite arranger was...

Heck, from some of these posts, it probably can't come soon enough for some

Thank You Lucky ...

The most successful people I know or who I have met, are humble and have class.

Through my years I came to the word, “Contentment”.
Can you be happy without contentment?
Can you be contented and not be happy?

Happiness and Contentment seemed to be very closely related, and since contentment comes from within – I would say that contentment may very well be the source to the question, “Do I feel successful”, the origin being within yourself.

John C.

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/

This one's is a bit better,Donny.

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/

Achieving your goals, dreams & aspirations, be it personal, financial, musical, or anything else.

Scott

Diki,

Apology accepted. Sorry if I didn't catch your humor, but your post was rather jarring in contrast with the sentimental title and previous posts of this thread.

Beakybird

Diki apology accepted I missed the humor in it. Although I didn't identify with anything you commented enough to take it personally, it seemed to be an attack on a few people I've struck up a friendship with, outside of the forum. Those same people have been a tremendous help with their tips for on being successful playing music. That's where it became personal enough to get me upset.





[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 04-27-2008).]

Scott it couldn't be said better. BTW I really enjoyed your website & songs.
http://scottyee.com

You are truly a Pro player & Vocalist.
How long have you been playing? Are you looking forward to a new Tyros 3 also?

Thanks all...

While we are on the topic of 'contentment', let me ask you something.

SHOULD a musician be 'content'?

Few of the great ones ever seemed to be. There's something about the drive to keep getting better, to innovate, to create, that somehow seems to interfere with this nirvana.

In many ways, I DO consider myself a discontented person. I am discontented with my arranger (it never does EVERYTHING I want it to do!), I am discontented with my playing (it sure could be better!), I am discontented with everything I have recorded (ditto!), I am discontented with my audiences (why can't they give Jimmy Buffett a rest, from time to time! )...

It kind of makes me sound like a grouch, doesn't it?

But it drives me. It drives me to work harder at controlling what I DO play, it drives me to practice every day, to reach for new ideas as much as I can, to try to grow and learn from everybody I work with, to try and make every performance, every session just a BIT better than the last one. And, of course, I am discontent because THAT doesn't always happen!

But strangely, I am a very happy person, and consider myself the luckiest guy I know! At least on MY terms, I consider myself successful beyond my wildest dreams...

So I am happy, and successful (in my eyes), but NOT 'content'.

Doctor, is there something wrong with me...?

Happiness is something that comes and and goes.

Contentment is something that lasts.

In addition, when you are content, your happy times are happier and your blues are less blue.

Self-indulgence makes you happy.

Dedication makes you content.

Ian

So, actually, I AM 'content', just not 'happy'..?

Thanks, Dr. Freud...

Now, put down the cigar

Perhaps you are content with being "happy"...or happy with being "content"?


Sheeeesh! I gotta get back to giggin'...waaaaay too much time on my hands.

Sigmund

oooops ... hit submit before I wrote anything ...

Diki ... In case I was somewhere in your "rant" , apology accepted ... and if I weren't, WHY NOT !!! ..... (just bustin' )

Certainly one can be very happy without being content ... One can be happy with their current place in life, work, playing ability, whatever, but as you said, not being content is the driving force towards improvement ...

That's all the philosophy from me for today ...

t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 04-27-2008).]

Success in the music field, at least in the way I would define it, didn't happen because I couldn't make the commitment. I may not have had the talent, either.

I was hooked on hard-line jazz at an early age...way before I was good enough to even try playing it.

I met a lot of the jazz greats in LA in the early 60's and they had a hard way to go.

I liked communications, film-making, publishing and other things, too, and took the safe route.

"Suffering for my art" is a concept I understood but wasn't able to do.

Luckily, I was able to play for the cash when I needed it raising a family to support my corporate income and incorporate music into a lot of the projects I do in my company.

I sold out. In that respect, I wasn't successful.

I made the choice, and in my "heart of hearts" I regret it a little every day.


Russ

NOT achieving all your goals and STILL being happy and content is success.

Lot of 'successful' potheads out there if THAT'S true...!

John, thanks humbly for such kind words.
Been playing piano & keyboards since I was 4 and first incorporated arranger keyboards into my act about ten years ago.



John, I assume from your post that you are ALREADY PLANNING to purchase a Tyros3, right? I myself am of course excited about what Tyros3 will bring, especially because I was hired by Yamaha Corp, thru an independent consulting firm, to discuss with them, in their early stages of Tyros3 development, my personal desires, needs, and wants in the Tyros2 follow up keyboard. That said, for now
I remain quite content with my current setup (Tyros2) because it still continues to satisfy my gig requirements & playing style. That said, I plan to wait till Tyros3's specs are officially released by Yamaha Japan before making any kind of upgrade decision.

btw: John, noticed your profile isn't filled out. If you don't mind sharing: curious what arr keyboard(s) you're currently playing and what Country/Region you reside. Welcome to the Synthzone John.

Scott

------------------
Scott Yee Entertainment

I guess I must be successful. I've made hundreds of dollars playing music and entertaining people, I'm always happy, every day is a good day (some are better than others), I've never been content (but that's something different), I could retire (but I don't want to because I'm having too much fun), and after nearly a half-century I'm still married to the same woman. (Guess I must have done something right! ) If this is a measure of success, I suspect I've been somewhat successful. Oh, and the kids turned out OK too.

Cheers,

Gary

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Yep...me too.

I figure, if the money continues at this rate, I should be able to retire comfortably at age 153.

Ian

Most of you know by now that I'm always going on about the exchange of "musical ideas." But I found this thread very extremely refreshing as most of you were candid with your thoughts, dreams, ambitions, blessings, failings, areas of content and discontent, etc.

I've been playing a lot of years and I can truthfully say I've never met another musician who sounded "human" enough that I could share what's inside of me. I never got to express my own emotions and dreams and regrets and all the other stuff you hold inside of you to another musician. After all, they’re the only ones that truly understand our business and the effects it has on us.

After reading these revelations from many of you, it's nice to know that it's possible to do the unthinkable: express internal dialogue and be viewed as a human being as compared to the stage entertainer that we are. I can visualize how cathartic it would be to do so.

Perhaps someone would like to start another thread that explores what all of us experience on the inside as musicians dealing with what goes with the turf: emotions! I already said we’re a unique breed.

Lucky

....left to join the circus!

After all is said & done all we're trying to do with an arranger keyboard no matter how you look at it is sound like more then one person playing.....& add to that playing many songs that were primarily created & produced with computers & electronics versus real live players also.......so its all a facade & smoke screen under the auspices of live music we try to create in our minds & make people believe it too when they only see ONE person playing some kind of keyboard in their eyes. As computers progress the harder & trickier it gets to do the above

btw the ground hog can kiss my A$$

The moment someone steps away from the keyboard whilst it is still playing...it's Millie Vanilli time!

No amount of smoke and mirrors will ever cover that kind of move.

No more "player" credibility beyond that point, in my opinion.

Sure, there are some here who can pull it off, but they are the exception.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-29-2008).]

Ian its much more then that .....stepping away, or playing styles/smf/mp3 or whatever if you aint playing an solo acoustic instrument...."your not fooling anyone"!
In many ways it excells you flexability & entertainment quality as a Pro Perfromer to interact with the audience, instead of seeing someone with their head down in the music & very little stage presence.
But you knew that right? no way around it. Be very proud of being the pilot/controller/conductor of your multi-sounding Arranger keyboard music making box....I am!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-29-2008).]

Donny, both things are wrong, IMO.

Heads down 'players', and heads up karaoke billed as 'live' music. If musical credibility is of any value whatsoever. If it's just the dollar, well, the audience likes dancing dogs, too, and spinning plates..! You aren't going to do THAT, too, are you?

DJ-ing, karaoke, 'backing track' acts... All of these can be done by entertainers with NO playing skills at all. The trouble with moving into these areas, as you ARE a 'player', too, is that you place yourself in competition with others that have little in the way of a learning path, so a LOT more competition. At the top of your game now? That's good, but you put yourself on a level playing field with others with no skills at all, and you make it a lot harder on yourself than choosing to compete in a field that HAS to have skilled players, or the audience walks out...

I don't know about your area, but down here, the majority of venues refuse to have 'backing track/DJ' acts, and want as much live music as they can get. To the point where I have to work hard to point to to the managers that, although we use artificial drums, very little else IS automated. Once they see us, they get the point, but 'entertainers' that just stand behind a keyboard and sing (or walk out in front of them) only play the Elks Lodges and VFWs, and the clubs and restaurants go out of their way to avoid this kind of act.

I guess being in the 'backwards' South has it's advantages!

Diki....

When you have a family depending on you .....you do what you have to so you can put food on the table & bring them all up normally best you can. If someone is multi talented and can do many things at once...or just DJ, Karaoke, ....or just do a solo cocktail lounge piano gig & sing all the better. No one wants to go into a restaurant with only "one thing" on the menu. After 40 years of making people dance I think I know what I'm doing .....maybe my style aint for everyone & that's good leaves me more work . If you do it better then most out there no matter what you do you will work if you want to....& play where you want to.....& also get the price you want....if not, you become run of the mill playing the venues you dont like. South/North /east/west I couldn't care less People are people. You want to use auto drums fine, midi files backup also? fine who cares ....just play good quality music ANY WAY YOU CAN & enjoy it with the audience.

Correctomundo.

If you know your craft, much of which involves knowing what your audience expects, you should have no trouble getting work.

Ian

Exactly Ian

I cant stress this enough....
"MAKE THEM WANT & SEEK YOU" not the other way around. Word of mouth is a powerful ting which can work FOR or AGAINST you

But is DJ-ing 'playing music'? Or is it 'playing a CD'?

Because the second can be done by anyone with a CD player, and the first only by a well trained few.

Look, I'm not trying to put down what you do, but simply to point out that as you use more and more entertainment tools that ANYBODY can do, eventually you put yourself in a position of FAR greater competition and struggle to keep jobs that, if they were kept 'musician only' would keep that food on the table for a lot longer.

And then, there's what do YOU want to be? A DJ, or a musician. No amount of spin or self justification can make those the same thing. You can do BOTH, but they are NOT the same thing (or I really hope you don't think that!).

The trouble I see is, that as you train up the audience to accept DJ-ing as part of a 'live musician' show, you are setting the venue up to go ALL DJ. If the audience no longer cares WHAT you do, as long as they are having a good time, you open the venue up to the LEAST expensive alternative that offers that alternative.

You have probably heard a LOT of 'entertaining' DJ's. Do you really want to go toe to toe with them? They don't need to buy thousands of dollars worth of arrangers, in addition to the lights and sound system you have in common. They don't need to have external harmonizers, practice for hours, learn new tunes.

I'm not saying this is where your show is, now. But as technology makes it possible for you to do HIS job, you start to get into getting HIS rate of pay. Again, I don't know your area's financial layout, but down here, the DJ's (other than radio and HUGE dance clubs) make LESS than musicians. Hence less food on the table for THER kids. If you are going to make a move into a market, why one that makes even LESS?

You train the audience to blur the line between 'musician' and DJ, you blur the line about what the venue will be willing to pay you...

But at least, if this ever happens, we will be able to look around and say we only had ourselves to blame... The DJ's certainly didn't learn how to play, did they?

Diki.....its way too late for what you saying in your post above.....the last 30 years we've already let that happen....no its a big MIXFEST!
But when a DJ or anyone sees you stop playing CD's or Mp3's etc & start playing a set of songs on the Arranger KB & Sing & the floor is packed with dancers.......this is where YOU SHINE & makes him shrivel up into a corner because HE CANT DO THAT!
Multiple talents are cause for excitement top that off with the professional experience to control a room & my friend that is a recipe for SUCCESS!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-29-2008).]

But that's where it falls apart... If he is packing the floor as well, and that's what the goal is, the process with which this is achieved is immaterial.

The more you blur the line between your job and his, the more you blur the achievement when you DO pack the floor by playing music, rather than a CD...

Let me put it another way... If you could pack the dance-floor WITHOUT ever playing a CD, why would you start?

If you CAN'T without playing CD's, that's different. But that's not you, is it? I hope we are not just talking about 'break music'. We ALL do that, unless the gig has a DJ, but doing it DURING your show... Why do that if you CAN pack the floor already?

That's simply diluting your achievement, IMO...

Do what makes you comfortable. But I'm sorry, that's not for me...

There are certain songs NO Arranger player can pull off not only because the styles wont work right to the audiences ears & the vocals etc etc .......but its all about SATSFYING the requests for these line dances....& just about any of the STANDARD party songs that are always asked for. Are you going to say NO & risk the consequences of disappointing the bride, or whoever hired you & their guests with "I dont play that stuff" or just play the CD/mp3 and make them happy & dance..... & then mix it up again afterwards with your Kb live which they will also love if done right. There is nothing wrong with mixing it up with different ways of performing music, to make the customer happy & making the job flow while your in TOTAL control. I saw it all happening many years ago......& look where we are now....its a sad necessity in today's musical performance scenario in Banquets & Affairs. NH's is a totally other story & requires 99% live playing which is fine also as long as your good enough to pull it off with your chops & vocals.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-29-2008).]

If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

I don't know about you, but I haven't heard a line dance that the arranger could NOT pull off, at least as well as it pulls off every other style you DO use...

What is there about 'Electric Slide' that makes it so hard to sing? OK, it's a girl singing it, but you probably cover other tunes that women HAVE sung (Fever, for instance... it didn't stop Elvis!). Adjust the key, off you go. Cha-Cha Slide, same thing...

Add in the fact that you can adjust the words for your particular party, and you have something that is BETTER than the CD.

This is what I don't get... Why play DJ when you CAN perform it live..? Don't kid yourself. Your audience doesn't think you sing as well as Ol' Blue Eyes, either (no offense, just the facts, ma'am!), but it doesn't stop you from performing THOSE songs... Why give the DJ an inch if you don't HAVE to?

My audience comes up to me and requests a hiphop number, I just tell them we'll play it on the break. They go away happy, I go home with my soul intact, everybody wins. Heck, they even request things I COULD do if only I knew them! Mostly, they understand when I tell them 'I don't know that song'. Then I play something else they DO like... everybody wins.

What do you do when they request a tune YOU don't know? Do you ALWAYS play the CD? Or are the times when you WILL simply say "I don't know that one?'

But if you start to feel obliged to play EVERY request they come up with, immediately, you simply open yourself to playing live less and less, and DJ-ing more and more. And eventually, just DJ-ing. And that IS a hard row to hoe to put food on the table...

Sorry, but if it's 'stupid but works', it IS stupid, but works!

Or, as my momma used to say 'Stupid is as stupid does'... then she gave me some good advice about chocolates!

Run, Ian, run!

Don't eat chocolates. Diki...they'll give you pimples on your face.

And don't believe everything they say in the movies...dump the Gump...don't be a chump.

Ian

PS...Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks.


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-29-2008).]

Captain Russ
How do you define success as it relates to your involvement in music?
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Hi, Russ,
For me,
1.it was turning up for a booking at a wedding and the bride was crying her eyes out, because nothing had seemed to have gone right for her all day, the wedding photos was the last straw, her wedding train blowing in the wind, the congregation looking and talking to each other, looking down and adjusting her wedding dress, and so on. At the end of the evening she came up to me, put her arms around my neck and gave me a kiss I will never forget, and thanked me for a great evening.

2.When I was being paid £40 a booking, and a man put £20 in my top pocket. I said I’m being paid for this booking, he said it’s the best I’ve enjoyed myself for the last 10 years.

3. At a booking for the, Far Eastern Prisoner Of War Association, a man who seemed to have had a bit too much to drink, had been eye balling me a lot all evening, towards the end of the end of the evening he started to stager towards me, when two of his friends grabbed him, I said what had I done to upset him, they said he is only happy when your playing at our socials, and he turns down important meetings to be here, and he wants to know if he can live with you and your wife. [ he had worked as a prisoner of war, on the Bridge over the River Kwai]

4. The first year I moved in to Sheltered Housing, of about 40 flats, I said to my wife on New Years Eve, I suppose we are the only two left in the complex, she said no, there are some residents in their flat, on their own. I said go and knock on their door and tell them I’m taking my ARRANGER keyboard [Technics KN 2000] down to the lounge for a sing song, and they are quite welcome to join in. There was about seven of us singing our hearts out till about 1am New Years day. Last New Years Eve 2007, there were 40 people, residents and non residents; but now I don’t do the entertaining, I book the type of person who can wear a chicken hat, and get us up in a circle dancing, [and that’s not easy with 70,80,90 year olds.].

So many good memories.

I got my first booking when I was 14yrs old I’m now 75yrs old, and book music and entertainment once a month for elderly residents and non residents.
They are not too happy with the entertainer who thinks we are brain dead, talks down to us, and thinks all we want to hear are songs from the first world war. Those residents that can’t get on the dance floor, perform the arm movements to the YMCA and similar songs in their chairs.
There is one lovely lady 99 years young, and when I see her singing away to an entertainer I have booked, or to my own musical efforts, to me that’s success in music.

Russ, I’m sure us older generation, could swap great stories all night over a beverage or two, with out any derogatory remarks.



Interesting thread.

Best Wishes,
Fred Wren.