Rikki
You are the only one I know of to have both, but for all I know, it may apply to any modern keyboard. I told Captain Russ I would see how my remaining SD2 module worked with my PA-800 before selling it to him. What I found out boggled my mind.

First of all, I don't use midi with style playing because I don't know enough about CC messages. My KN7000 has very extensive midi implemention, but is confusing to configure(to me). However, I hooked it up to my PA800 and I was on my way in twenty minutes after reading Korg's very concise instructions.

All I had to do was allow CC messages, stay on default ch 1,and block messages from accomp. The amazing thing to me is that by choosing a "Performance" on the PA800, it automatically changed to that family of sounds on the SD2. From there I can go into the different instruments in that family on the SD2. From there I go to the different sounds, and the corresponding sounds will be selected on the SD2.

With Local On, I can easily make luscious combi's with the balance slider on the PA800, and the volume slider on the SD2. The best part is I can save the whole thing as a new registration, name it, and put it in my Songbook as if the SD2 wasn't attached.

Wheras the PA800 has great sounds, I, in effect ,have at least doubled my sonic palette, and believe me, the SD2 has some of the best sax,organs, trumpets, and woodwinds out there.

Sorry for going on, but the possibilities are simply overwhelming.

Bernie
ps
Sorry Russ, I have to keep the SD2 now.

Bernie great new....
glad to hear you enjoying your PA800 & additional module accesories etc ....sounds like your having a ball!

Hi Bernie
Fantastic news, however:
If you had got yourself a Wersi, you would have had those capabilities (And more) years ago.
You also wouldn’t have to worry about muting the acc midi, as the Wersi has independent Midi control sections for Manuals, Sequencer and Acc, on each Midi out.
BTW The SD2 is a very popular add on with Wersi owners too. (It must be one of the best value modules out there)
Merry Christmas to all

Bill

Hi Bill
I know, but that is in a different league, and a little less portable. This is not meant to diminish the many attributes of this fine instrument, however. I'll have to struggle along with a poor man's instrument.

Have a happy one yourself
Bernie

Curious as to why anyone with a $10K+ Wersi would add a cheap Ketron module... You would think for that price (and all of Bill's praise of it and it's so-called 'openness') that it ought not to need help from a very inexpensive module.

That's the thing about 'openness'... It's only as 'open' as third party developers make it. And given how a Ketron module is probably used by FAR more Wersi users than say, East/West's Colossus, or any of the huge GIGA orchestral libraries, one has to ask whether the ability to be 'open' is anywhere NEAR as important as just a good MIDI external gear implementation is. Despite how much the OAS adds to the cost and complexity of the Wersi's.

The fact is, for anyone other than the top studio professional, there are several modules out there with close to GIGA quality sounds that require NO VSTi playback capabilities, and can be used by anyone with a low or mid-line arranger to enhance their sonic palate to exceptional live standards. And at considerable less cost and complexity, and with immediacy (the time loading different VSTi's for different songs is still a live buzzkill).

And sorry, Bill, but until I hear a bunch of demos from Wersi that annihilate the T2, PA2 and E80 for realism, I just have to continue believing that even the makers themselves, yet alone us mere mortals, don't know how to turn 'openness' into 'superiority'. It's not enough to stick a GIGA grand or B4mkII onto a so-so backing. For 'openness' to really arrive, EVERY sound coming from the arranger has to be TOTL GIGA quality. Every sound, every style written for them, top to bottom.

The fact that Wersi users are fond of a cheap Ketron module proves this is not yet the case, IMO. Don't get me wrong... I am DYING for the day when 'open' keyboards actually deliver on their promise. I use VSTi's extensively for studio work, and would LOVE that they all could go with me live. But I would want EVERY sound in an arranger to be that good, and the setup and operation to be as easy as a ROMpler arranger is now. Which is sadly not the case, yet.

In the meantime, modules (that require no VSTi setup and computer hardware) are coming out with MASSIVE ROM sets (Sonic Cell, anyone?) and sounds that, for live and even quite a bit of pro work, are quite superb. And need nothing more than a MIDI cable and a decent external MIDI implementation. Sadly, for right now, these make both musical AND economical sense.

Hi Diki,
Have you checked out the Muse Receptor? It enables full on live access and playing of all your VST's.
Dennis

HI Diki
As far as I am aware there are no VSTs or sample discs with Ketron sounds, so the only way to get them is to use a Ketron. (Unless you know of any software)
BTW Have a listen to an SD2 and you will find the sounds are up there with medium to TOTL arrangers.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

Yes, I've tried one (a Muse). Basically, it all boils down to the fact that they aren't capable of holding EVERY sound in memory at the same time for an entire arranger's sonic palate. Streaming off a drive is questionable for live, with durability and vibrational problems, and compared to TOTL computers (which some of the TOTL orchestral libraries require two or more just for THOSE sounds!), they are a little underpowered.

Add to that that arranger use (with some VERY complicated MIDI code tricks for dealing with 'late' chord entry) doesn't work well yet. Until those tricks are part of the sound engines of the sample players (and given the small size of the potential market, players like Kontakt may NEVER add those codes), playing an arranger's output into one of these as an engine will sound terrible, compared to the optimized engines in hardware arrangers.

While it SEEMS, from marketing hype and spec charts, that the 'open' things like NeKo, Muse, Wersi and MS OUGHT to be able to do an entire arranger in GIGA, the fact is, they can't. The external stuff like NeKo and Muse don't have the codes for smooth voice pitch changing (to deal with the 'glitches' of fractionally late chord entry), and the 'open' arrangers have neither the horsepower, nor the integrated soundsets and styles to do the entire thing at GIGA quality. All of the 'open' arrangers use primarily ROM sounds for the styles, or suffer from limited resources to develop as good a soundset in GIGA as the Big 3 can deliver in ROM.

There's an awful lot more to an arranger than simply adding high quality lead voices to a noticeably sub-par ROM set. Once your piano, or whatever you lead with, is THAT good, you want EVERYTHING at that quality. On ALL the styles, on ALL the sounds, and you need it INSTANTLY (that is the whole point of an arranger... you never know what you need until you need it, and Lord help you if it takes too long to load!

So far, and believe me, I've listened to every VSTi and soundset that ever comes out, there is nothing available that will run on one computer that has ALL of the sounds from a ROM TOTL arranger, at GIGA quality, and instantly available, all balanced and coherent, and has hundreds of inspiring styles already written for it.

THAT is what an E80/G70 PA2X or a T2 has... The combination of huge soundset, and styles written specifically for it, along with a playback engine that will handle 128 voices without a trace of latency or glitches, and the ability to 'bend' late chord entry notes to the new 'correct' ones with the minimum of artifacts. But primarily, it's that combination of vast variety of sounds, and a library of styles developed specifically for it.

Until an 'open' arranger goes to the expense of either developing as good a selection of sounds at MUCH higher GIGA-like quality, or licensing one from various developers, and then making hundreds upon hundreds of styles specifically for that soundset, they are always going to lag behind, while always touting their 'openness' as a leading feature. First and foremost, we want an ARRANGER. THEN, we want great lead sounds. Until technology leaps further ahead, or maybe a Big 3 company, with it's greater resources for soundset and style development, jumps into the fray, what we have with 'open' arrangers is the other way round... Great lead sounds (no argument there!), but with flawed arranger soundsets.

Sadly, none of the Big 3 have ANY streaming technology products, so we may have quite a wait... Perhaps the new FLASH based computer technology just around the corner (laptops with solid-state hard drives are coming soon!) may make this possible, but I still see maybe five to ten years before this trickles down to arranger players. In the meantime, MS and Wersi will continue to crow about technical innovations, that right now don't appear to make it to SONIC innovations. When that day comes, I'll be dancing in the streets (and ordering one!)

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-22-2007).]

No problem at all, Bernie. Glad things are working for you!


R.

Here someone is excited about is arranger keyboard and module. Good thread started.

But Diki says "who would add a cheap Ketron module.." . I really dislike opinions like this. Kills the thread if you ask me. So, please keep your opinions about products out of the post. I have been involved with Ketron for a long time and have recorded with Ketron products , my recordings don't sound cheap.

Dan O'