Anyone knows what width of the keys korg is using for PA-800 and PA2X?
I went to the music store but they had neigher of them. However there was a Korg PA-50. I measured the keys and they were of same width as Yamaha (electone, synt, arranger) keys, 160mm one octave and not the more common 165mm.

I already play both 160mm and 165mm so the width of key will only be important when I put two keyboards up on eachother. Then it would be very bad if the keys were not of same size.

Pa800 each key is 14/16"

or.....22.22500 millimeters each key

Guess that ends up to ~165mm, one octave?

14/16" = 0.875" x 25.4mm (i.e. 1" = 25.4mm and converting inches to fractions first) x 7 (7 white keys an octave measuring C up to B) = 155.575 mm. an octave span.

0.875" x 25.4mm x 7 = 155.575 mm

Are you sure Donny that the Pa800 key has a 14/16 inch width? Can you get a more accurate measurement possibly? If you are correct on the 14/16" then the Pa800 keys are actually smaller in width than my PSR 2000 and/or Tyros key width, which both have a 160mm octave span.. Although, if the measurement is measured as a whole i.e. "from one end to the other" then the gap between the keys has to be taken in to consideration also. So depending on how much gap there is between the keys, and while measuring the distance as a whole (as oppossed to just the key width itself x 7 i.e. C to B) there would be some discrepancy in how the octave span is determined depending on how it is measured.

Best,
Mike

Mike who knows? Im no math wizard, I just wanted to help....got my kids school ruler and measured it....its 2 lines less then an inch

Most of the top manufacturers keys are nearly identical in width, however, the spacing between keys varies from 1 to 1.5-mm, which will ultimately have an impact on the octave width. The PSR-3000's octave width is 160-mm while the average key width is 22.5-mm.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

What are then the octave width for the korgs?

The standard key size of a conventional keybed has a 6.5 inch octave span which translates into 165.1 millimeters. This is a size that was standardized over 150 years ago and has varied ever so slightly since then. Korg and Roland have made some of their arranger and synth action keyboards using this conventional standard. That is, with a 165.1 millimeter octave span.

Yamaha, on the other hand, has used what is called a universal keyboard size on their arrangers and on their synth action workstations i.e. the Motif ES7, etc. That standard generally produces a 160mm octave span after factoring in the gap between the keys over the distance of an octave. Yamaha does use the conventional standard i.e. (165mm octave span) on their Digital Pianos and on their 88 note Workstations i.e. the Motif ES8, etc. For whatever reason Yamaha chooses to relegate all their arrangers and synth action workstations to the slightly smaller universal standard.

If someone has large hands and fingers then of course the conventional standarized key width would be better suited for them. In theory a larger key width gives the pianist more freedom and room for expression with a lesser possibility of mistakes especially when performing difficult pieces. That is why I prefer the larger 165.1mm octave span keybed and have encouraged Yamaha over the years to start making their arrangers and synth action workstations with the larger conventional size keys like Korg and Roland have done and continue to do. And I for one don't have fat fingers but I still would prefer a true full size key width.

Could Mozart have gotten by on a 160mm octave span keybed? No doubt he could have and quite possibly did. I do all the time on my Tyros and PSR 2000, mistakes and all. But the question might be asked should Mozart have had to? Especially since the standard accepted by the Piano Manufacturers Association over 150 years ago was established and set at 165.1mm (6.5 inches) an octave span. Sometimes (a lot of times in fact) the old ways are still the best ways in my opinion.

So what I might once again urge Yamaha to do is go back to using the conventional standard on ALL of their keyboards including their arrangers, and not just on a selected few models.

I want to emphasize that this is my personal viewpoint and opinion. Yamaha, nevertheless, is apparently content it seems on continuing on with their course of action regardless of what we the consumer might think. That is their prerogative of course but at least they know (hopefully) that some people out there don't necessarily agree with every business decision they make, however few and far between those dissenters might in actuality be. I really think the majority, if not all, of their decisions are based on the companies financial bottom line instead of the people to whom they are trying to market their wares to. That is once again their choice, but in the end will it ultimately have been the best and wisest choice? Only time will tell. But if a companies top priority is something other than the people to whom they are trying to sell their product(s) to, then, eventually, it could lead from a pinnacle of success to a slippery, downhill slide.

Sorry for deviating slightly from the main topic but it does intertwine; although it was a bit wordy I must confess.

Best,
Mike

Good morning..

So Donny if you have a straight, short, flat metal or wood ruler it would be simple to measure an octave span on the Pa800. Place one end of the ruler at the lower end of, for example, the middle C key and measure it up to the outer edge of the B key and if it measures 6.5 inches then it would be considered an 165mm octave span keybed and therefore would indeed have the larger conventional standardized key width size. Larger than Yammies 160mm octave span that they have on their arrangers and synth action workstations in other words. And what I consider to be 'true' full size keys if indeed the Korg has an 165mm octave span keybed.

Best,
Mike

And I have the backing of the world's Piano Manufacturers Association attesting to my sentiment too by the way.

Best,
Mike

Mike yes you are correct ....
I took my toy ruler and did as you suggested above on my Pa800....

excactly 6 1/2"

Thanx for the Math lesson

Now if we could only get Yamaha to do the same with their arrangers and synth action workstations.

Everybody knows... size doesn't matter.

"It's in the way that you use it..." EC

Correctomundo!

Mozart played a variety of keyboards. Harpsichord, clavichord, pipe organs and early forte-pianos. None of which had ANY standardized key width... Didn't seem to faze him

The only thing that really got to me was playing a piano accordion with 'lady's keys' which are considerably thinner than even a regular accordion, which is itself a lot less wide than a piano's keys. I could easily span an octave and a fifth (C1-G2:wow: ) on that thing, and it seriously threw off my chops! Regular piano accordion, no sweat, but this thing was just SO small...

Many keyboardists have learned to adjust to a variety of key feels and key sizes.

Guitarists do the same with different types of guitars.

Learn about the variety of feels from guitar players if another keyboard player can't persuade you.

Ian

Now that's opening a can of worms if I ever heard one.

Actually size "can" matter and depending on the situation "does" matter. For instance, take the Tyros as an example. Or any of the other Yammie synth action keyboards for that matter. They all have 160mm octave span keybeds (except their cheapies) and the problem that can arise in my opinion is when you play within the area of the black keys. Pressing the white keys in the black key area can get tricky and prove to be frustrating, because, as you've guessed by now,.. , the width to be able to play comfortably is restricting because of the narrower keys compared to a conventional 165.1mm octave span keybed. Since the white keys space between the black keys area is narrower because of the smaller keybed size more attention has to be concentrated on striking the keys without interfering with the possible triggering and depressing of the black keys in the process, at least for me anyway, when striking the white keys within that area. And I don't have fat fingers so I can imagine someone with larger hands trying to do it effectively i.e. without unintentionally depressing one or both of the surrounding black keys along with the white key when playing within that area.

I've played the larger 165.1mm octave span keyboards and it is so much nicer (and easier) to navigate and play in the area between the black keys. I can do it on an 160mm octave span keybed like my Tyros but it can be tricky and I have to constantly be on a diet and watch my weight also. lol Just kidding but you get my drift right? Now if everyone just played near the edge of the keyboard and didn't play within the black key area everything would be peachy keen and Yammie could make their keyboards with 130mm keybeds and nobody would complain. But unfortunately that has not, nor ever will be, the case for the majority of keyboardists worldwide. Including me...

Best,
Mike

Good points, Mike. But you seem to do OK with the thinner Yammy keys. Do you think you could/would play even better if those keys were wider - that's the issue. I think it would be nice if all keyboards (above the strictly for fun) were of a standard size, but they aren't. Being able to adjust is just part of the game.

Hey, what about the accordion guys who go from keys to buttons.

I don't know about the rest of the forum members, but I have trouble seeing .06375-mm (approximately 1/50th-inch difference in key size) let alone being hampered by this. And, my first keybed experiences were on an old upright piano. I sincerely believe that for MOST PERFORMERS, this is a NON-ISSUE. I figure that if those skinny keys are good enough for the vast majority of players, they're damned sure good enough for me. Or, maybe I'm just not talented enough to worry about it. Let those puggy fingers fall where they may!

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Conventional size keys i.e. 165mm octave span keyboards are made specifically for pianists I agree. Probably Yammies reasoning for making their arrangers and synth action keyboards the narrower 160mm is they think most real "pianists" don't buy arrangers and/or synth action keyboards and hence no need for their arrangers and synth action workstations to have the wider keys that traditional pianists require and use.

But Korg and Roland have given consumers the option (the choice) of wider keys on their arrangers etc. which is comforting to know. I guess Korg and Roland realize that pianists play arrangers too and can have the best of both worlds wrapped up into one keyboard with Roland and Korg products if they so desire. It's not a perfect solution YET but it is a solution and one that works even if only imperfectly. Granted, weighted keys gives the pianist more control of expression through his or her playing but nevertheless it can be done on semi-weighted or synth action keys i.e. playing piano parts that is. Once you've played a real piano it is hard to go back to playing piano on synth or semi-weighted keys but why not give a person the wider conventional keys in case a pianist who is using an arranger or synth workstation wants to play an AC piano sound on it just in case? Roland and Korg have figured that out unlike Yammie unfortunately.

And yes I "survive" with my Tyros and PSR 2000 because I've grown accustomed to them over the years, not that I'm thrilled with the idea having to concentrate so hard to hit the white keys in such an exacting manner without the possibility of causing mistakes in the process mind you.

Best,
Mike

Oh and I wanted to mention that there are other sounds from an Arranger or a synth action Workstation that could benefit from the wider conventional key width like EP Pianos and Strings. And when you get down to brass tacks any sound that you could use with a chord structure whether triad or other would be beneficial too in my opinion. So yes... wider can be "better" in the case of keyboards, where the wider conventional key size is ultimately better suited for Piano and other style playing that can really be a benefit because of the extra width.

There are many things in life that if it were not for being just a little bigger, wider, etc. could cause catastrophic consequences; so even though the key width betwixt the conventional size vs. the smaller universal size i.e. 165.1mm vs. 160mm is only a small overall difference per octave span, that difference is actually monumental in my opinion. And I think many a keyboardist would agree with that assessment. Although maybe not Gar...

Best,
Mike

PS: The reason I have tried to stick with Yamaha is because of their superb acoustical sounds and obviously not because of their smaller keybeds. That's why I have been trying all these years to urge Yammie to give their arrangers and synth workstations the wider conventional size keys so I can stick with their brand if at all possible.

Although it may not be possible to stick with them unfortunately. My request has so far fallen on deaf ears sad to say. And the future of them doing it looks pretty dim from what I can tell. I hope I'm wrong about that. Oh well.. life still goes on here in the big city - irregardless of what Yammie does or doesn't do regarding their arrangers, etc. We can all testify to that.

Hey Mike, maybe others only play in C maj so only need white keys without having to fit fingers in between black ones