hi,

I can't sing a note, Never could, Always out of tune.

I want to know if it is possible to train my voice or learn to sing proper, I want to sing proper so bad.

Please tell me it is possible to change a bad voice...

I want to sing proper so much...

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited 01-08-2005).]

I just wondering if there is a surgical operation I can have done to my voice box that would help???

I never could stand the sound of my voice, and I really struggled to stay on key. I used to practice at home and record myself and then couldn't stand to listen to it.
Then I bought an Echoplex (this was mid-70's).
I discovered e.q. and turned all the bass up and all the highs down. The result was that it was nearly unintelligible. Still, for some reason it gave me some confidence.
A girl that used to sing with me kept encouraging me to sing. She said she liked my voice. Gradually I began gaining confidence and started being able to stand the sound of my voice.
I remember buying a new Peavey p.a. that the band used. I was really proud of it. One night another musicican came in and I asked him what it sounded like. He said "way too much bass and no highs". So I changed the e.q. Everybody started saying how much better it sounded, so, despite my own ears, I trusted them and went to the old "v" curve on my voice.
Anyway, gradually, over the years I became known as a singer--the last thing I ever expected to be. Still, you couldn't get me to sing without some reverb and a little e.q. enhancement. It's a security blanket I suppose.
Take encouragement. If you really want to sing, you can. Play the melody line with your right hand while singing it. It gets easier as you go. Don't worry about the "quality" of your voice. There are many great artists whose voices don't match the accepted norm of singers. Think Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Rod Stewart, Don Mason and many more.
Just some personal experiences.
DonM

I must echo what Don M says here, even though I am surprised that he was ever uncertain about his vocal talent. (The man can really sing!)

When I first started writing songs I had no option but to record them myself if I wanted them to be heard. I HATED my voice and when listening to it recorded I would cringe with embarrasment.

It took a massive amount of willpower to actually post a song on here even though I had known people here for years. Like Don says a smidgin of reverb and a bit of eq go a long long way.

The more I recorded and listened to my own voice, the more confident I got and now I don't think twice before posting a song. I still wish I could sing like some of the guys on here and whilst I will never be totally happy with my voice I am learning to make what I have sound the best that it can.

Most of all I enjoy doing it! It really does not matter that I may not sound like Don or Donny, Scott or Dave or numerous others I can mention. I sound like me!! Accept what you have and work with that!

When I sit here on my own and play, warbling away to myself, I am having the best time.

So... a little confidence, a little reverb, tweak the eq and just ENJOY it. You will be amazed what you can do.

Remember, some of the best (hairs on the back of your neck) entertainers are not the most technically perfect singers. Billie Holiday, Liza, to name but two are prime examples of What Donny was saying about singing coming from the soul. It makes a world of difference.

Best wishes to you
Tony

.
Yes it is possible to change your voice. But not surgically. First of all, learn breathing technique. Human beings do not have to learn to breathe to survive. Breathing to produce a musical sound is a different matter. Yoga can help here, and ultimately you will need a voice teacher. Your voice will change when you develop the ability to support it with proper breathing and to control the various resonaces of your chest, throat and head.

You will also have to learn solfeggion in order to sing on pitch. A coach can help you here too.

Check at your local community college to see what classes are available. You may be able to find a church or community choir that is willing to take you on.

The reason I know that these methods work is that once I was one of those terrible-sounding, can't-carry-a-tune people. Now I get paid to sing. Today, in fact. Gotta go.

Douglas Wolfe

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A year or so ago I was listening to one of Don’s song from his website. My mother was up for a visit and she heard the recording. I now owe her a vacation to Louisiana.

A week ago I heard Tony sing “Daddy Please Don’t Cry” an absolutely beautiful rendering.

Now today I see both of them giving heart felt advice and encouragement.

Rebel, you are at the right place at the right time. Don’t you dare give up on singing or playing.

Just look at the two men I mentioned above. Clearly from their words you can see they are at peace with their music and with themselves. And that is more than enough reason to keep on keeping on with your music.

Someday Rebel that heart felt advice and encouragement may be coming from you to help another. Music can do that to you.

Floyd

I used to try to sing, but I was never very good at it... same thing as what others have said: terrible tone, always off key, and mostly I was surrounded by better singers. So I focused on what I can do best which is play keyboards. I wound up playing behind a lot of singers but eventually I decided to go solo and play instrumental music only. It has turned out to be a much better situation than any of my former gigs with singers. So the moral of the story is to focus on your musical strengths and develop good business and interpersonal skills.

By the way, I DO know a guy who had surgery on his nose, and it definitely changed his voice for the better. I'm not certain of the procedure. He has since moved to Texas and I don't see him anymore.
DonM

DonM you forgot to list me... BTW I knew a fella that couldn't sing..he had a sex change operation and now she is a good singer...

Fran, that's an interesting one. I can relate with a friend of mine to your story. The guy had a terrible (male singing voice), but what was so odd is that he could change his pitch to sound like a woman and WHAM the boy had pipes!!!!!! He had to sing falsetto (if I spelled that right). All he needed was a wig and a dress, and vegas would have been his

Squeak

By FAR ... the best one mentioned in the above list, is Don Mason!
(Stone, cold serious !)

I'm surprised no one metioned electronics (TC-Helicon). I know the pros will knock it, but they sound pretty good to me. I was impressed by the voice processing on the Roland Discover 5 (not an arranger). They can make you sound like a woman, like the Backstreet Boys. With pitch correction, based on the chords you play.
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 01-10-2005).]

Starkeeper, I agree. If I remember right the topic (pitch correction) took a beating some time ago.

Yet these machine do their job; like it or not. If you get too far off key you can and will get a robotic sound. But you know, if someone was really smart they would market that as a feature.

Follow me with this one:

During practice whenever the vocal starts sounding robotic then you would "instantly" know that you have missed the mark. Time to back up and try it again. With trial and error you would be bringing yourself back on key. (Kinda like immediate feedback on how well you are progressing.)

With midi and/or programing you would not have to worry about playing the keyboard. You would remain fully focused on your singing voice.

Now you do want to get to the point that you can tell if you are singing in key by playing the melody on the keyboard and singing. Not everyone can do this in the beginning.

Also these machines do allow you to "hide" some mistakes in the light mix of reverb and echo.

Of course this probably won't make a teen idol out of anyone but it may allow you to "carefully" choose some songs and to perform them.

Now is all this worth several hundred dollars in equipment?

I guess as with most things in life; it depends.

Floyd

"Of course this probably won't make a teen idol out of anyone but it may allow you to "carefully" choose some songs and to perform them."

All that's necessary to make a teen idol is lots of publicity!! Remember Fabian? He couldn't even TALK on key.
DonM

I struggle to accept my voice, it's a constant battle with confidence. I got what I got. It HAS improved dramatically though over the past, say, ten years. Because I have sang a lot! But sometimes, I HATE IT. But I have strangers tell me they love my voice. Go figure. Honestly, I shake my head.

However, I could always sing on key. To "Rebel," I'll be honest. You may be someone who should NOT sing. I have no idea. If I were you, I'd seek out a teacher or someone who would give you an honest opinion. If you are woefully off key, can't hold the pitch at all, maybe it's unlikely you ever will be able to sing FOR OTHERS. Some people just flat cannot sing.

Also search for a post on here by me about a girl who sings with me. It's in this forum... maybe two, three months ago.

Rebel,

Stick with it and practice practice practice. I also agree with Don (my hero) about liking your own voice and what a little reverb and eq can do for you. Record yourself and then play it back. Work on the parts that sound bad over and over and over. I will never be a great singer but I've progressed to the point that most times I can get by.

Don, Hank told me he taught you how to sing!

I HAVE learned a lot from Hank. He has such a wonderful stage presence. He is the original bull***t artist!
Don't let Tom C. fool you folks, he sings very well!
DonM

Semi.. I relate.. totally.. I know I don't have the pipes that some of these guys here have, ( not even close )but there are some things I have learned to do fairly well ( with practice ). I get by fairly well when I work toward what I can do. I can sing on key just fine, but if it's not ina comfortable range, the tonal quality of my voice can leave a bit ( or even quite a bit ) to be desired.

One thing I learned from using my SM58 into a microphone modeler. Not every microphone is right for everyone. Of course, using a mic modeler isn't the same as really changing mics, but it still makes enough of a differnce that it opened my eyes a little.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-10-2005).]

One or the things I've been blessed with is my voice. (Lots of other body parts were not nearly as functional!) However, even if you have a good voice, vocal training can bring out those attributes. When I told my spouse that I was going to take voice lessons at the local community college her first question was WHY? I explained that I felt I could improve my voice if I could learn ways to expand my range, yet still maintain good vocal control. For the first time in more than 4 decades of nuptuial bliss she said I may be right.

After taking the 3 month course, my range increased dramatically, I had much better control, I leared proper breathing techniques, and most of all, I discovered the one of the main ingredients to quality vocals is diction. And, last spring while touring the sunny south and meeting up with several Synth-Zoners we stopped in Nashville. Amazingly, there were several instructors there that also stressed the importance of diction, and some had tutored many of the top country performers.

The bottom line is, if you have an inkling of vocal ability, I strongly suggest looking into a vocal course at the local community college. It's not expensive, and it could be the edge that will eventually make you a better performer.

Gary

Well maybe I have an inkling.... That's a good idea Gary. I can get by a little now, but some improvement would be very welcome.
Definitely an idea for my "To Do" list. Thanks

AJ

Gary, please explain "diction" in the context of improving your singing.

Diction is the correct pronounciation of words, placing the proper emphasis on consonants and vowels. It's a form of enunciation that makes your wording clear and distinct. I read a great article in a music magazine about a vocal instructor that worked with Elvis in Nashville to improve his diction. She went on to instruct many of the top performers then and now. If words are slurred when singing, they have the tendency to make the performer seem less inteligible. Sinatra was a master with diction, and every word he sang was crisp, clear and distinct, but at the same time, his style seemed so relaxed the songs all sounded spontaneous.

Diction is also another reason not to drink on the job. Nothing, absolutely nothing, sounds worse than someone who is half toasted trying to sing. If you don;t believe this is the case, just go to any Karaoke Bar, don't drink anything stronger than soda pop, and listen the drunks make complete and utter fools of themselves while the drunken audiences applaud their performances.

Cheers,

Gary

I to have been blessed with my voice, I sing everything in the original keys. I have been singing professionally for 47 years and I agree with Gary about the diction part of vocalizing...and the drinking part...all of your drinking should be done when you are not working.....

I hereby apply for a voice transplant. If I could afford it I would buy Ray Charles'. I would also pay top dollar for UD's, DonM's, Gary's, Rich's, Scott's, DNJ's and several others I have heard here. Sorry Tom C., I haven't heard you sing, but if DonM says you're good.....you're good.

If the price for those voices is out of my range, I will settle for Michael Bolton's...but the price would really have to be RIGHT! And on sale.

Eddie

[This message has been edited by btweengigs (edited 01-12-2005).]

Hey btweengigs,

I think that's a very interesting notion. Me...I'd go for Tom Jones or maybe Johnny Mathis. Make all the girls "swoon" just like they do for Donny (Dnj).

-mike

When Donny leaves his Thursday night dance, he has a slew of eightie year old girls hanging onto him..

Hey Donny....go for it...many a good tune has been played on a old fiddle...hehehe

Haven't heard from Donny in a while. I was hoping to draw him out.

No posts, no links, no pictures...I think he passed the baton to Fran who's doing a bang-up job, I might add. (nice picture you hung up in the Bar)

-mike

If your statement is true, then if should not be that difficult for you to prioritize your time and do it! The above info is good stuff... and it does work, believe me. Take lessons and practice... the more effort you put in, the better you'll get. Good luck.

Glenn

So, many of you keep saying "You can do it, just practice, take lessons, you can do it!"

How do you know Rebel has any chance of ever singing? Do you honestly think that ANYone can sing decently with lessons and practice? I don't. But if you do, I'd like to hear more. That's very interesting.

I stand by what I said... have someone evaluate you that you can trust and see if they think there is any hope. Some people canNOT sing, period. Is that a valid statement?

I think it IS a valid statement....just like "Some people CANNOT float". Physical makeup greatly affects the way sound travels through the body, but he important lesson here is that ....... the audio part of singing (what is actually HEARD) is TOTALY subjective to the listener!
Do you like Lauren Bacall's voice?
It's scratchy and low .....
How about Michael Fienstein?
He's got a smooth, broadway tenor thing going on.
Point is: some will like one thing and others will not. I truly believe that the instrument(voice)itself, comes from deep within the soul and not the vocal cords. The voice box merely pushes air through your mouth ...... there are hundreds of other variables that go before that final push.

The most important thing to remember in singing is communication. The lyric is king. The lord and master of the song, so treat it as such, and learn the words. Understand the meaning behind them. If it's a mindless dance tune (like the Electric Slide), then it matters very little how you phrase it, but if the song has a message .... make sure YOU get it before you try to sell it.

1)Pitch can be improved.
2)Technique can be practiced.
3)Diction can be learned.
4)"Soul" and "Feeling" must come from within the artist.

Concentrate on all 4 steps, but treat #4 as the highest priority!

Yeah, but don't you guys think some people are so tone deaf, there is no hope? Make you cover your ears. Tone, volume, character, soul, none of that matters if you can't sing on pitch. I don't care how much you practice, there is no hope for some. Or is there?

I am not qualified to answer your question, but I have heard people who are so tone deaf, that every note is off key. It is hard to believe that their is hope for them.
Starkeeper