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#211593 - 08/28/05 05:00 PM So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I'm considering a second hardware arranger to complement my PA80. Truth be told, the sounds are getting a bit old, and when I do live work with a friend of mine, we tend to do a mix of newer and older stuff, and sometimes the PA80 styles don't work for me quite as well as some of the Yamaha styles did. The harmonizer is pretty limited too.

So, I'm at least willing to consider the 3000, although I'm wondering if I'll like it much better than I did my 2000. Once I got my second 2k and I found it to be bug free, the key feel was my biggest issue, and I doubt that it is much improved.

Ok, I'll admit it, I can get by even with the 2k's keys if I had to, and I am not looking to open up that can of worms again... I just don't like it.

That's not what I'm really asking about here. I'd like to know why the 3k is worth several hundred more than the 2000 series boards were worth. When I look at them on the surface, I don't see a lot of difference, but my look has been pretty brief. If it's mainly about the USB and "internet" connectivity, I don't think I'm interested. Are the sounds and styles worth the difference to you ?

I'm actually leaning a bit toward the Tyros right now, but whatever I get doesn't have to be a Yamaha, but it won't be the PA1x. Anything else is fair`game. I am looking at this strictly from a performer's point of view. I don't find any arranger to be my best option for studio work anyway, so none of that matters to me here. Any input is appreciated..

AJ
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#211594 - 08/28/05 08:44 PM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
DonM Online   elvis
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16627
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I know it's getting old, but I think you would love the Ketron SD1.
To answer your question, the 3000 is quite an improvement over the 2100 and even greater over the 2000. Individual intro-ending buttons are a big thing.
Just the storage capability is almost worth it.
You DO lose a couple of things, such as the dedicated harmony button.
Tyros is WAY ahead of any of them though, except the SD1.
DonM
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#211595 - 08/29/05 03:01 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
Thanks Don. I get the sense that I would like the SD1 too, the way the styles and sounds have been described. It's that age old problem for me though... I still can't find one to demo.

I say age old with a smile, my first posts here at SZ almost 5 years ago were related to not being able to find the best arrangers of the day to demo. Not much has changed...

AJ
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AJ

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#211596 - 08/29/05 05:39 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15019
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
AJ,

The 2000/2100 is a great keyboard, has lots of wonderful features, and I know several pros that still use them.

The 3000, however, is light years ahead of the 2000, and while the operating system is nearly identical, there is a bit of a learning curve, just as it was with the 2000.

As Don said, the USB and Smartmedia card storage capabilities alone are well worth the money, particularly if you use third party style files and midi files.

Lots of new sounds, new styles and a slight improvement in the vocal processor. It does not jump out of the box and knock your sox off like the 2000 did. This is because the EQ's are tuned flat as a pool table and need to be tweaked a slight bit to get gut thumping bass, crisp, clear mids, and sizzling highs we all demand for performances.

The key feel is a bit firmer than the 2000, but not significantly. For me, that's a non-issue, and to be perfectly honest, I prefer light-action keys. (I'm not a Jerry Lee Lewis type of player!)

The Tyros has lots more features, including the ability to add a hard drive, dedicated vocal harmony volume control and on/off button, and a few other buttons that I orriginally missed with the transition from the 2000 to the 3000. I added a foot switch for those functions and no longer miss them. The Tyros has more polyphony, which usually translates to larger samples and better sounds, but the difference between the 3000 and Tyros sounds, at least to my ears, are not significant.

The display is much better on the Tyros because you can tilt the relatively large screen to make it easier to see. However, no keyboard on the market, at least that I know of, has a sunlight viewable screen--they just do not exist in this media.

Good Luck on whatever keyboard you decide upon,

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#211597 - 08/29/05 06:01 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3734
Loc: Motown
AJ, what about the Roland EXR 3/5/7 "s" series? The 5s and 7s look very complete and the Roland keyfeel is better than Yamaha. You'll also have a different sound source in Roland.
http://rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=8&subcatid=39&prodid=EXR%2D5s
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#211598 - 08/29/05 06:52 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
Hey AJ,
Here is an SD1 for sale. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum29/HTML/001687.html
Cassp,
The Roland EXR 3,5,7 are no where near the same category as a PSR3K, PA1X or Ketron SD1, IMO.
Kevin
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I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#211599 - 08/29/05 07:35 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9559
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Kevin, I agree, but remember the EXR's are half the price of a PSR3000..Soundwise..it will give the 3000 a run for the money..Harmonizer and storage give the edge to the Yammy...but we still have to play it!!
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#211600 - 08/29/05 07:54 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I'd love to try the SD1, but I wouldn't buy it without being able to try one first.

The key feel is a bit better maybe on the 3000, at least it felt that way. I can get by with it. It won't matter that much I guess, because I almost always use a two kb setup, and both the Motif ES and PA80 have decent feeling keys for my taste, so I can rip out the occasional solo on one of them if I want to.

I actually did get to try out an EXR board cassp, and I didn't really think all that much of it vs what I have now. It's OK, but it really isn't a consideration for me.

Gary, I think either the 3k and Tyros are the two leading contenders here. A good built in harmonizer is important to me. I'd prefer to not have to drag around and setup an external one, even if the quality would be improved.

Usb storage is great too, and thankfully I have a couple of USB thumb drives for the Motif ES. Lucky for me, because both smart media cards I had eventually went bad ( the ES can use either ).

I like the overall Yamaha sound palette in general anyway, and I hear a lot of the Motif ES in the Tyros and probably the 3k. I would hope the drumkits are better than in the past, but I'll live with what they give me.

Thanks guys. It helps to hear from the playing pros on this one. If there is anyone in the NE Pa or Southern Catskill area that has an SD1 or Genesys around, I'd like to see it. If you are a private party, I'll be happy to compensate you for your time. Short of that, I think I can do just fine with either a Tyros or 3000. As I said before, I'm not really looking for a PA1x, simply because I already have a PA80. I realize that the PA1x is probably a pretty big step up, and ultimately I'd love to play one sometime, but I would prefer to complement the setup with another brand.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 08-29-2005).]
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#211601 - 08/29/05 11:01 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
mdorantes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 1192
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Hi, I perform with the Yamaha PSR 3000 and the Korg PA 60....is a nice combination, you have a great sound/style pallete and since I am a former organist, I am used to play with 2 keyboards anyway,
I also did use the Ketron SD1 for over 4 years, I still miss the great sound generation even is "old" to the todays technology, but for live quick performance, is a little slower that the 3000 or even the PA60. Poliphony in 3000 is great, and the PA has it limited but with the best dynamic alocation, the SD1 once in a while would give me a little problem that way.
Like I said before, great sound generation the best MIDI files playback (better that either of the boards I own)...but I rarely use SMFs....so, that's why I use these models & brands.
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#211602 - 08/29/05 11:28 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10598
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Hi Everyone,
I use a Psr-3000 and I am thoroughly satisfied with it.I actually have two,one being a backup.
In regards to Gary's comment that there is more polyphony on the Tyros than the PSR-3000,that is not the case.They are the same 128 note polyphony.I have heard the tone generators are very similar,and the major difference in sound is the more elaborate speaker system of the Tyros,but I have been unable to confirm it.
Having had a 2k and 2.1k, I can say the 3k is light years ahead.It is less fussy to set up than the Tyros and it's extremely light weight make it the ideal gigging keyboard.
Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#211603 - 08/29/05 11:44 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4683
Loc: West Virginia
I just wish Yammie would make a rack or module version of the 3000. I'd buy one of those for sure. My problem with the PSR line is primarily construction issues. I did have a short run with the PSR-2000, but there were some issues there. I didn't mind the issue of construction then because it was sold to me at a great price.

My one main issue is the quality of the pitchbend and modulation wheels. I don't know if the 3000 shares the same quality, but geez oh man how cheap they were on the 2000. There's just something about the return spring they use that just rubs me wrong. I honestly think they actually limit the pitchbending ability. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way too.

I use pitchbend a lot because there is a majority of my solo work done on the guitars and saxes. When doing guitar work you really don't need the modulation wheel. More realistic vibrato can be done using the pitchbend wheel. There's a trick (but you have to have fast thumb control). I use my pitchbend to bend a note and add vabrato. Maybe the other guitar players understand what I'm doing.

This technique cannot be performed on the PSR's. The pitchbend wheels just doesn't allow a smooth enough movement. Oddly enough my Casio WK-3500 does, and has a much better quality set of wheels than the PSR-2000 had.

Anyway sorry to rant on there. Yammie if you read this please consider a module or rack versions of your arrangers....

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-29-2005).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 08-29-2005).]
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#211604 - 08/29/05 08:47 PM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10598
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I agree with you,Squeak.The wheels on the 3k are crap as well.The pitch ben d wheel makes a noise at the end of it's travel when you release it suddenly; I had an 8k that had great wheels.
I did a bagpipe emulation on the 8k (why?Does he ask!)that I couldn't do on the 2k-3k becuase of the noise when I released the wheel.I understand the guitar vibrato problem as well...it's as if the wheel is too coarse.The pitch wheel is usually ideal as it lets you set the depth and rate on your own.
A 3k module and a nice light 76-88 key controller would be cool.
Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 08-29-2005).]
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#211605 - 08/30/05 09:43 AM Re: So.. is the 3000 worth the cost vs the 2100 / 2000 ?
MacAllcock Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1177
Loc: Preston, Lancashire, England
I've made the jump and for what I do it 's worth it just for the capacity of the smartmedia and the usb capabilities. The smartmedia was the killer thing for me, no more floppy disc shuffles! the "next" facility for midi file playback is also a huge help because I use midifiles much more than styles.

The sounds also seems cleaner to me, but if that had been the only difference then I would have been much less inclined to upgrade.

The 3k also seems to "overload" more easily on dense midi tracks; but use of "MidiPlayer" to reduce the levels of my midifiles soon sorted that issue; I think the 2k has the same issue but I didn't hear it as much.

hope this helps

John
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