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#197788 - 09/08/01 08:55 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
ChicoBrasil Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/01
Posts: 993
Loc: Belo Horizonte,Minas Gerais,Br...
Bravo Uncle Dave!
No cats and dogs in the same box.
I can see the true situation in my country.
Today,prof.Kb musicians are missing a lot of money.
False musicians(No one band man but several
smf's man) and Karaoke are the hawks!

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#197789 - 09/09/01 07:04 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
ChicoBrasil Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/01
Posts: 993
Loc: Belo Horizonte,Minas Gerais,Br...
Yeess Uncle Dave;its's all right but I want separate amateurs and false musicians. I like amateurs,I have some Kb students(48) but I don't like false musicians ( No spotlihgts in Kb,Smf disks and a large and high music stand to hide the fingers...).
Mbr,Chico

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#197790 - 09/09/01 07:48 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Uncle Dave,
I see your point about your work, and that entertaining is your work
as an professional musician.
Also about that the amateurs having fun, also in your area, make a
very hard competition and also to get desent payed gigs.

I am not a "pro", not even a skilled musician, but believe it or not,
I quit "gigging" for weddings, restaurants, local dances etc. nearly
10 years ago.
And what do you think was the major tool who made it possible for me
to do all those week-end jobs, yes sir, the Auto Arranger KB!
(And of course two of my friends who play guitars ang sing very well)
Give me a piano or whatever, and I propably could not accomp a simple
common singalong in a desent way!

By rebuilding and tweak the styles, we did it our way, and the final
result was just as good (or bad) that people want us back, and 90% of
the contracts for more "gigs" we got by people who was guests in those
arrangements, or by people who had heard about us by others.
We did perform a lot of "gigs", but since we all have our regular
occupation to take care of, and that fact that we missed about every
week-end that we could share with our familys, now we only meet now
and then to have fun and and "jam-sessions".

My point is, that I guess for the "pro's" we also was a kind of
"pain in the ass", when signing jobs who might be given to them if we
was'nt there.
Even if I did a lot of work to make the accomp as good as I could do,
I only played the left hand chords, played some simple solos and pushed
on the nessesary buttons. Cheated as good as I could, that's it.
We had fun, and most important of all, people on the floor had fun.
And they did'nt care less if we was "pro" or not,believe me.
If it was'nt us, there where others, and now it is also possible for
those who have a lot of midifiles, the equipment to playback and sing
along, and they do, really, and here we go again... karaoke.

What really make me fustrated about fake/cheat or not, is when you watch
a national broadcast on TV, it is a competition among several bands or
performers, and not one of the actors play or sing live, then it's cheating.
Better play it on the radio............
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#197791 - 09/09/01 10:18 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
flowerssupply Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/99
Posts: 312
Loc: Ireland
Dave there wont be a lot of fun in the ould Kar debate if you pull out now -- sure its great fun as it is. Best wishes to you and your father.Pierce
_________________________
yyyyyy

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#197792 - 09/09/01 12:08 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
As I'm reading the posts the Banner above says Karaoke crazy... funny
Just want to come to Uncle Dave's defense a little.
First of all I want to mention to Gunnar that I'm German but have been living in the US since 13 years. Even though the US is a western country, it is very differnt from Europe, in terms of cultural things, especially music... so it is sometimes not easy to compare the needs of the musician as well as the audience in Europe and the US. We think very different in Europe and expect different things. What I'm trying to say is, I agree with you, since I know where you are coming from, but I also agree with Uncle Dave.
Yes you can use a KB as a K-machine, but you can also Play REAL music on it on a very profesional level. I think that is what Uncle Dave and the others are talking about.
Greetings
Eric


[This message has been edited by Eric, B (edited 09-09-2001).]
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#197793 - 09/09/01 03:57 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Yes Eric,
the keyboards can be used to make as professional and real music as
ever, and I thimk future developement will make it better and better
for each new model to come.
The next step is probably going to make it play without touching it,
(as you know, touch-screen is a kind of "old fashion" now), just tell
it what to do or play, and just watch what happen....

The culture differences is maybe more present than I know, but the
strong influence we have from USA might have closed the gap a bit?
I have the greatest respect for U-Dave's and other peoples work and
meanings, and I clearly can see all his point of views too.
I've said it before, it's only my very peronal thoughts, not any kind
of attack against U-Dave.

Regarding to my point about sequensed and playback music, I'll try to
say it in another way to mirror what I try to say:

My mother used to do a lot of hand-knitted sweaters etc. to add income
to the family. (Btw, most of those was sold in USA.)
So one day she tried a knitting machine, had to use the hands to operate
it as well, but even if the products look nice and the quality maybe was
just as good, she refused point-blank to to use it anymore. When the
sweathers got the mark inside, it stood "handknitted" in it.
This was cheating, and could not be called hand-knitted she said, even
if the customers never would have known about it and the sweathers was
just georgious!

My other point is that the karaoke/shows/singers etc. also is a kind
of performance for many people who really do it in a great way.
Maybe some of the reason for the tight market for musicians also can
be relatet to the fact that the AutoArr KB's make it much easier for
amateur "one man bands" to get the jobs, because it's not bad music
coming out of it, and they might ask for less money too?
And when so many pro's also have choosen to go solo and "the band" is
one of these wonderful music-machines, doese'nt it also be a part of
the reason who make more competition about the same market?
Karaoke.....
maybe it's better to try to face it, rather than close the door and say
this have nothing to do with entertaining other people than themselves.

I remember some of the "old folks" used to shake the heads and tell us how
cruel the music we young ones played was, that it was not music but only
"noisy hullabaloo" and that we destroyed the whole music culture!
You'll never know, maybe we did, but is'nt it a bit of the same thing we
can see happen nowadays too?

GJ

[This message has been edited by Gunnar Jonny (edited 09-09-2001).]
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#197794 - 09/09/01 04:27 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
That's right Gunnar. One think for sure, things always change and we won't be able to stop progress. Many have tried and failed. We can only try to adapt, find our spot in an ever changing world, and make the best out of it.
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#197795 - 09/10/01 06:41 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
OOOppppsss .... I did it again .......

Anyway, I don't fully agree with your description of todays players U-Dave,
simply because I have a feeling about that you count "one for all", or "all
for one".

There is a lot of really good young musicians around nowdays too, maybe more
than ever before, just because of that fact that music is so much more of
our everyday life then ever before.
I have never, ever, seen so many young kids who are going to music school
and learn to play piano, fiddle etc. as it is during the past 10 years, or
maybe it's more like 15.
Not to forget to mention all the brass bands at school and elsewhere. High
quality players too, if you ask me.
I'm very happy to tell you that we have more coming eminent skilled musicians
that ever before, and I'm sure this goes for the rest of the world too, just
wait and see.

About using examples from the Bible and the talk about where to find evil or
not I think we should not do in this forum.
Let the music and related be the topic, there is enough holy wars around the
world as it is already.

GJ

Btw,
keep on playing music UD, and I'll take care of the Pizza.
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#197796 - 09/10/01 11:03 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
You are right Gunnar. Again the music education in Europe is by far better than in this Country. It starts already in school.
Symphonies and Orchestras are funded and supported by the Government.
Not so in the US however. Sport is the big thing here. Lots of money... Music is being cut out in schools because of funding and smaller Symphonies are struggeling to survive.

That being said, you might understand UD's point better. Again I don't think you can compare those two cultures, but you can share whats going.

Even though Europe is imitating more and more the OUTER aspects of the US, they are still worlds apart in their mentality.
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#197797 - 09/10/01 11:21 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Just look at any Synphonic/Phiharmonic Orchestra and you'll see 90% Asian/Europian Musicians!

I rest my case :>)

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