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#197778 - 09/07/01 06:33 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Vic01 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 275
Loc: Madison, Wisconsin USA
That was very well said Uncle Dave. I think you're spot on. As one just gearing up to got out I will chew on this for a while. I also want to use all the tools available to me and that is just what they are, tools. If there was a hall of fame for arranger posts, I'd vote that one in !!

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#197779 - 09/07/01 07:24 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Well,
I guess I got Uncle Dave's temperature rising a bit ??
Just remember that it is not you, but the topic that I am giving my
very personal point of view about.

My definition of karaoke is:
Music already recorded in one way or another, hit the play button
and sing along.
And if everything is on tape or MD, included the singing, and the
artist is acting like this is live, then I call it cheat or fake,
not a live performance.
(As we see almost every day on TV, singing as high and clean as ever,
even when doing all kinds of things except from singing.
Wonderful instrumental solos, and not a cable plugged in, neither the
powercable to the amps!)
Maybe thats what they call unplugged?

Life lessons?
Most of the local performers who use songs known by others do the
best they can to copy the originals, we use to call it cover-songs.
I would rather see it done more personally, but the guests/audience
often seems to like the music similiar as they use to hear it in the
radio or TV.

I have seen karaoke singers who have memorized the words, and even
perform and sing far better that some of the "pro" do, so you can't
count all for one.
Many who have the gift to sing wonderful can't play any instrument,
or maybe not read scores, so already done arrangements is a nice tool
for them, as all the technical equipment is for us.

About the mentality and the rudeness among people, not ONLY the karaoke
singers, I fully agree with you.
I guess this is a way to behave that we see more and more, and the
respect for other people is a "dying art".

/Quote:
In reality - I'm sure it was created to save money by cutting out the
need for a live performer. It's doing just that.........
Quote\

And so does the automatic arranger keyboards and midifiles, one single
machine is the whole band.

Maybe it is possible to agree about that I do not have the very similiar
point of view as the pro's, but that I agree fully in when you or others
do your shows, you have the right to do it your way, use and without
being disturbed of too drunk "I am Elvis" or other guests who always want
to be the "one and only star".
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#197780 - 09/07/01 08:11 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Lets face it, Karaoke and DJ's are here forever like it or not. Modern technology has created them as well as what we do as arranger KB artists/entertainers. Years ago we couldn't do a solo act like we do now and "LIVE" bands were the norm at any venue.
Most of us who have been playing professionally for many many years remember those great times very well. The younger DJ's, "K" artists don't have a instrument playing background and no clue as to the way we experienced the business. All they know is hook up some speakers, plop in some CD's, Laser discs, TV screen, and everybody is a "STAR"! Times sure have changed. Society is musically split into these "GOING OUT" types of entertainment:

DJ's (club dancing, weddings, private affairs, blow up guitars and blasting music)

Karaoke Bars (people singing drunk to a TV, bar owners love this to make money on slower nights )

Piano bars 3 types, ( Jazz groups, Live Piano/keyboard player or Auto Piano with a disc to make it play music (Clavinova) or just piped in musak (no Dancing/Dinner)

Adult Dance Music, Ballroom, Latin, Contemporary (Live bands, solo Arranger KB artist, playing very danceable music for the over 45-80 yr old crowds. (Much needed) they are the "Forgotten people"

This is mostly what we have around this area in the North East USA, I know around the world is propbably different can you ad anything else?


Ahhhhhhh whats the use……………….Who knows what the future brings?
Just do what you can, have fun doing it, do it from the heart, and make people happy, life is too short to Dilly Dalley.




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-07-2001).]

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#197781 - 09/07/01 08:50 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
quote:
Ahhhhhhh whats the use……………….Who knows what the future brings?
Just do what you can, have fun doing it, do it from the heart, and make people happy, life is too short to Dilly Dalley.
end quote.

This I fully agree, no doubt.
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#197782 - 09/07/01 10:28 AM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
I think maybe now everyone here can appreciate what myself and many in New Orleans and around the country went thru in the 60's.

Through the 50's and 60's we had bands. Five to seven piece bands. We made from the early part of the 50's $10 a night up to $25 a night in the early 70's.

In the 50's we had "Battle Of The Bands" going on regularly. What a high. Our band won two trophys. We were still in High School. As most of the others who participated.

We had piano, bass, drums, guitar(sax in every band)and our band had a trombone. Some had the same setup with a trumpet or another sax instead of the trombone.

Then came the Beatles. Just like the country scene, all people wanted to hear was a band with nothing but guitars.

So,that was the end of the big band era, and 5 to 7 piece bands with horns. They are a rarity anymore. The poor horn players that might have been.

Now anyone that gets run out of the music business today has other things to blame it on. Karaoke and technology.

Its a tough life trying to make a living in music. To most of you, I recommend getting a job and do the music part time like 99 percent of musicians do anyway. And to Dave, DonM, Scott, Dnj and the others here that do make a living, I envy you.

Really how many here make a living and support a wife and at least 1 other person besides DonM and Dave? I don't know about Donny and Scott if they have families or not.

Should I pick a fight with Uncle Dave again. He's mellowing a bit lately. I'm real proud of him. Dave, calmness makes for a longer life. Or so I keep reading in many an article.

I will admit that off and on for me music has been a blessing and a curse. If you want to do music you have to learn to live with it. Lots of things in music have to do with being in the right place at the right time. Many times its has nothing to do with how good or expert you are.
Boo

[This message has been edited by brickboo (edited 09-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by brickboo (edited 09-07-2001).]
_________________________
I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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#197783 - 09/07/01 01:26 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Boo, I don't currently have any extra mouths to feed, so it makes it easier to make ends meet and enjoy a comfortable lifestyle as well. I also teach music and do some computer consulting. I'm not rich but I'm happy I'm able to do what I lOVE.

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 09-07-2001).]
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#197784 - 09/07/01 01:58 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Well, since you asked . . .this is going to be long, and sort of personal, but what the heck, we're family, and if you're not interested click the back button. I won't be offended.

As some of you know, I've been having a real battle supporting my family doing music recently. I feel most of the problem is brought on by the huge number of karaoke "artists" in this area.
For years, I just picked and choosed from the jobs offered to me. There were one, two, three, four-piece (and larger) groups working all over, for decent money.
In the past two years, many of the places using live music have quit, or drastically cut back. Instead they let the customers get drunk and entertain themselves by singing to each other.
Now, many of the larger groups have cut their prices. It's easy to hire a pretty good band here for $100-200 on a weekend night. I'm not talking about the bad pickers, these are decent-sounding groups.
Back to me--all of a sudden my phone stops ringing and the offers fall off. After years of not having to worry about bookings now I have to start hustling again. So I go to talk to some of my old jobs and find out that, sure they would love to have me back, but now they are getting "a whole band" for less than my price. (As we know, the "whole band" may or may not be better, but that's beside the point). So they want me to cut my price. Do I do that, or go back home and watch T.V.? Or do some intense self-examination as to what I can do to get the income back up. Here there are several options, such as "get a day-job", become a "k" host, go on the road to a better area.
None of these options work for me. I did try the day-job thing for a few months, but by Golly, I'm an entertainer--not a regular person anymore.
As some of you around the world know, I started picking brains--mostly Donny in NJ, (who incidentally has a family and a wife and possibly a few girlfriends and supports them all very well), Uncle Dave, Scott Yee, and others. I found that the most consistant and rewarding work is being done in nursing homes, retirement centers, health-care facilities, etc. So I started calling all around the area. All the nursing homes were overjoyed to have me. "When can you come, just name the date". They said. The word got out and I had 14 of them on my caller I.D. in about a week. BUT, the most they would offer was in the area of $25.00. That's right $25.00, and they don't even want to pay that much.
But, I was getting pretty desperate, so I agreed to do a few of them on a one-time basis. I figured that when they saw that I was a cut above the free stuff they were used to getting I could ask more money. That actually worked to a degree. Some of them will now pay $75-100, but not very often.
Then I started networking with some of my local contacts. The Shreveport area is loaded with musicians with connections to Nashville, the Opry, the now-defunct Louisiana Hayride (which I DID appear on in it's dying days--that's probably what finished it off). I finally got hooked up with a guy who had a workable solution.
His name is Dean Mathis, and you may remember him for his group, The Newbeats. They had a worldwide number one hit called "Bread and Butter", plus other top 10 hits. He produced records (remember those) in Nashville for many top artists for years.
Dean has been organizing and along with some of the other "old-timers", such as David Houston before his death, performing shows for the nursing homes around the state. As it turned out he was in need of a "band" and partner. I was flattered that he asked me to participate in this project.
There is a special way in which the shows are funded, and I can't disclose the details, but it is quite lucrative and doesn't cost the nursing homes anything.
I've been totally snowed under with this work because it includes booking the various towns and cities, arranging the financing, doing promotion for the events and actually performing, averaging two shows a day several days a week. My income is almost instantly far better than it has been in several years.
But by far the best part of this project is that the people we play to crave the attention and the entertainment. We involve them in the shows as much as possible and to see their reactions is truly rewarding.
What a deal, making money doing what you love to do for people who love you for doing it.
I'm still booking the bigger jobs on the weekend when they come up, but most of the time I'm home to be with the family by mid-afternoon. Thanks Donny, Dave, Scott and others for pointing me in this direction.
I guess the point of all this is that the business IS changing, and we have to be ready to change with it or adapt to it. The same boom in technology that allows us to be Arranger entertainers is now making it almost too easy for anybody with a computer and a half-decent voice to give us competition. We must figure out how to survive and prosper in the face of bad economy, stricter DUI laws, advancing age (in my case), and the infamous K******.
I THINK I've found a solution that fits my particular case and qualifications. All I know is I gotta keep on making music.
DonM
P.S. I've developed a new website just for this venture. It's not quite ready for the public yet, but check it out anyway. Constructive criticism welcomed!
): http://donnymason.tripod.com/hayridesunshineshow/

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 09-07-2001).]
_________________________
DonM

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#197785 - 09/08/01 04:43 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
MR Bulk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 191
Loc: Mililani, Hawaii, USA
Although I myself am more of a recorder/demo maker and not a performer, I feel for the performers. And I would like to make one significant distinction between performers (and I include every single arranger KB act), and karaoke machines:

One only has to press "play" on the karaoke machine and it does the rest, playing song after song, the exact same way, time after time. Can the same be said of an arranger KB?

On a KB, even if sequenced, somebody has to work the KB at some time, to customize a performance for a particular show. You need a real MUSICIAN working that KB. The keyboard musician, as opposed to a k-machine, is indeed PERFORMING.

Just my 2¢!


------------------
Regards and Aloha,

Charlie
_________________________
Regards and Aloha,

Charlie
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/MR_Bulk/index-1.html

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#197786 - 09/08/01 05:10 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
A keyboard can easily be used as a karaoke-machine nowadays.
Just load some midifiles, press play, and there you go.
Not nessesary to play at all, and newest models even have the
possibility to send lyrics to videoscreen, so the modern
keyboards is indeed also a kind karaokemachines if anyone want
to use it that way.
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#197787 - 09/08/01 07:22 PM Re: Karaoke YES or NO ?
flowerssupply Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/99
Posts: 312
Loc: Ireland
Dear all After spending 22 years working with young people exhibiting challenging behaviour arising from hurts etc I am aware that there is no such thing as right and wrong. Dear Dave Evil is another issue. I dont do Kar gigs and i wouldnt like to as I love to play and "create the pulse" however I wish to steer clear of discouraging anyone else from doing so. There is enough for us all.Best wishes Pierce in Ireland PS flowerssupply was before I retired to Music Now aged 55 and swingin.
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yyyyyy

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