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#193540 - 08/09/05 06:28 AM Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
NOTE: This song has been re-recorded.

Here it is: "PAGING MR. PAGE"

...

HERE IS ORIGINAL POST:

This song is an original, "Paging Mr. Page" and it's driving me nuts trying to get a recording with good fidelity. All of this was done on psr2000, vocals going through psr2000, no overdubs, recorded on Fostex mr-8, tweaked in Krystal software, converted to mp3 in Dbpoweramp at 192.

I just need to know if there is any clipping or if you hear any distortion. As well as any fidelity comments. Or if you love/hate the song, a comment either way is appeciated.

Paging Mr. Page mp3

(Go to bottom of first page, click on FREE, then at bottom of next page, click on "PAGE8" filename.) It's a site for uploading temporary files, totally free. Recommended by engineers to me, I've been using it, it works great for temp files.

P.S. There is a spot in the chorus where I say about Elvis "And I wondered back then what was his wage" and it barfs a little and it sounds like I chuckle. Which is rather fortunate that it happened right there but it was unintentional. That's a psr2000 quirk. Or that style quirk.

------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-23-2005).]
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Bill

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#193541 - 08/09/05 06:41 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
girljam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 246
Loc: FL
me bill -
i'm listening to it right now, and i must tell you, it's one of the clearest sounding recordings i've heard lately. I can hear every little strum, and every single one of your words/vocals is clearly audible. You know i'm no techie, but i'm giving the whole things a thumbs up - the song itself too!! You are very creative!!

The little "chuckle" actually came out perfect, altho it wasn't meant to! You are right, it came in at a perfect spot!

Just my little opinion, but I wouldn't change a thing . . .

Jill
_________________________
Jill

PSR S970, PSR S910, ShureSM57 mics, and way too much misc.

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#193542 - 08/09/05 07:59 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Thanks, Jill. Anyone else? I need opinions, if you care to listen. Again, about the recording fidelity and also the song (songwriting) itself. Do you like this song?

No
It's just okay
Like it
Love it

EDIT: Hey, you guys are downloading but not commenting! Help me out! I can see that six people downloaded. Of course, I have no clue who you are, haha. But if you can post even a brief comment, it's very helpful.

------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-09-2005).]
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#193543 - 08/09/05 08:16 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Bill, just downloaded the new file. It is much better and I like the new verse a lot. BUT, the volume is still slightly peaking when I examine it in the Nero editor. Nothing like the last one, but still, in my opinion, slightly too hot.
Don
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DonM

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#193544 - 08/09/05 08:36 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Don, did you hear any distortion or clipping or ANYthing abnormal?

Thanks, amigo!


------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
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~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193545 - 08/09/05 08:45 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
No clipping, just a tad of distortion, but you have to listen hard to hear it.
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#193546 - 08/09/05 09:07 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
msutliff Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 640
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Hey Lefty,

I like it. I like the song, very catchy lyrics. Like Jill said, very clear.

Here's some technical stuff (my opinion, of course). I don't hear any distortion from the few places it clips (using Sound Forge 7)(keep in mind, I'm 45 and listened to my music real loud as a kid).

0:16.5
0:32
1:20.8
1:32
2:47.5

Those are all minutes and seconds into the song where the meters show clipping. But again I didn't notice any real distortion there.

But about the quirk you mentioned (1:08 into the song when you sing, "And I wondered"), I think that's the harmonizer and it sounds like it's stuttering to me. At 2:30 into it, you sing the same verse and there's no stuttering. I heard the same thing in Scott Yee's Coffeehouse song (Tyros). What is that? The harmonizer not quite ready for action, levels too high, threshold being broken, something is happenin' there.

That aside, I enjoyed what I listened to. If you were in my town, I'd definitely come to hear you sing.

-mike

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#193547 - 08/09/05 09:09 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
Carrie-uk Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 168
Loc: England
Hello,

I really liked it! The vocals were all very clear - seemed like they might be a bit too loud compared to the background at times.

Personally, I think you could make this song much better, production-wise, with some overdubbing and having different instruments come in/out at different times. I would drop the style's strings altogother and overdub your own string lines in, for example.

This is just how I like to work, though. I love the PSR's for songwriting, but then I like to go back and make lots of changes - mainly putting different drums in using commercial audio drum loops, and playing some of the background instrumentation, such as piano/strings by hand for the final product.

I'm definitely no expert though.

Carrie

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#193548 - 08/09/05 09:09 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
nielshs Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 342
Hi

I like your song and your singing. The recording sounds good, but I think there is a little too much treble in the mix. Keep up your songwriting

regards
_________________________
Niels

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#193549 - 08/09/05 09:31 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
clipping. But again I didn't notice any real distortion there.

Mike, thanks for that, that will help to look at waveform at those places.

But about the quirk you mentioned

I don't know... the psr2000 with this style has been barfing some.

vocals were all very clear - seemed like they might be a bit too loud compared to the background at times.

Carrie, I agree. Still working on that.

I would drop the style's strings altogother and overdub your own string lines in, for example.

Yes, I thought the strings were weak.

different drums in using commercial audio drum loops

This is something I have asked about lately! I was thinking that on into the future, I could do all tracks and then wipe out the drums and do them with good drum loops. I also thought of hiring a real drummer. Seriously. I love drums and if anything sounds "not live," it's drums. But they are getting drum loops pretty amazing these days.

too much treble

nielshs, I boosted the highs in e.q. and I guess I went too far. I'm also hard of hearing, high frequency loss, so, that alone could explain that.

Thanks to all! This is a song I'm really wondering about... if people like the song. Because it is obviously about the Municipal Auditorium in Shreveport, Louisiana. The Louisiana Hayride was held there. An amazing history. You can thank the place (and hey, Mr. Page!) for Hank Williams, Johnny Horton, Elvis, Slim Whitman, George Jones, Johnny Cash. That's an amazing statement but it's true!

So, I have continually worked on this lyric to try to make it appealing to people outside this area. I had two ways I was going with it.

First was to build the story more around Mr. Page and his senior citizenship and how they can positively influence your life. Second was to showcase the history more than Mr. Page but Mr. Page remain a focal point. I chose the latter, thinking the historical perspective would create more "universal" acceptance. Something you strive for in songwriting.

The place is mostly known for the country music stars it nurtured, "the cradle of the stars." But I wanted to figure out how to bring rock into that as well because it's true, Elvis was rejected by the Grand Ol' Opry and The Louisiana Hayride accepted him. That's where he built the personna of early Elvis that changed the world.

Haha, it ain't easy or everybody would be a songwriter. I have a very strong opinion about this song but I have to get other people's opinions. So, thanks!

P.S. Carrie, when I wrote this on guitar... the rhythm I could hear for drums was a very fast and prominent rhythm. I love drums! More of a rockabilly style. This particular version is kind of mellow. Which I like, but I might like to rockabilly it up even better.


------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193550 - 08/09/05 10:53 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Re: your song: "Paging Mister Page"

I have no quibble with the impressive sound quality (clean recording & clearly understand vocals). The song itself is pretty good, but have to admit this is not one of my favs among what I consider your many other more impressive collection of originally penned tunes.

Was Mr. Page an actual MC of the Shreveport Municipal Auditorium, or is he merely a fictional character? For whatever reason, I didn't develop much empathy for him, as your song told nothing more about him other than the fact he was the MC of the Shreveport Municipal Auditorium where all the legendary Country superstars got their start. I kept waiting for your song (lyrics) to reveal MORE about this guy, perhaps something profound in the 'last line' of the song. Just my own personal opinion, and only because you asked. Keep the songs coming. - Scott
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#193551 - 08/09/05 11:24 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Scottyee:
Was Mr. Page an actual MC of the Shreveport Municipal Auditorium, or is he merely a fictional character? For whatever reason, I didn't develop much empathy for him, as your song told nothing more about him other than the fact he was the MC of the Shreveport Municipal Auditorium where all the legendary Country superstars got their start. I kept waiting for your song (lyrics) to reveal MORE about this guy, perhaps something profound in the 'last line' of the song.


Thanks Scott, this is something I am fishing for. But I am not looking for 'empathy' for Mr. Page. There is no need for empathy. I would ask "Do you LIKE Mr. Page?" Not "Do you have empathy for Mr. Page." Because again, there's no need to have empathy. "Likeability" is what I was envisioning. (I probably am saying same thing you are.)

As I said in a post above, another version, I was building Mr. Page up more. The other direction was to create a song with this cool Mr. Page and how I feel humbled that this cool senior citizen came into my life. I have another version with verses to build on this... building up senior citizens through Mr. Page. He's a cool guy, he's older 'n dirt, he knows a lot of stuff, I like him. And he made a positive impact on my life. (In the song.)

The problem is twofold. First, what is the "right" way. Right way meaning most commercial. Because this is potentially a commercial song. I said potentially... it's one in a million even if the song is the best song ever.

Second, it is going to be very hard indeed, and maybe even impossible to build on history and Mr. Page's character and impact on the singer... and keep it under 4 minutes and preferably, under 3:40. Those are self-imposed guidelines. (This version is 3:35.

The other thing I have wondered about this song is say heck with it, make it a 4:20 song and say everything I want to say. I use David Ball's smash hit "Riding With Private Malone" as my yardstick for story songs in contemporary country music. That song is over 400 words and I think, it's 4:20. A great song and a huge hit. But it's certainly not the norm.

I am ALWAYS trying to say more with less. But it's very hard to do.

Thanks again, Scott. If anyone else has a comment, ye or nay, please do. I've already spent about a hundred hours on writing this song. No exaggeration. But I have to move and move fast, there is an opportunity for me locally and possibly regionally that's been presented to me.

Oh yeah... yes, Mr. Page is a real person and the event (Mr. Page and I and the Municipal)... that really happened.

In fact, just last night, I happened to turn the t.v. on PBS and who was on the screen? Mr. Page! True! I couldn't believe it. A show about the early days of radio in Louisiana -- Making Waves (LPB) .


------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-09-2005).]
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Bill

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#193552 - 08/09/05 12:14 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by SemiLiveMusic:
I would ask "Do you LIKE Mr. Page?" Not "Do you have empathy for Mr. Page."


Bill, You're right. Character 'likeablity' is perhaps a better word choice than empathy. For me though, I still don't know enough about him to like or dislike him.

Quote:
Originally posted by SemiLiveMusic:
I feel humbled that this cool senior citizen came into my life. . . . He's a cool guy, he's older 'n dirt, he knows a lot of stuff . . . And he made a positive impact on my life


How about leaving your song lyrics just the way they are, but add the above as a revealing discovery for the listener in the very 'last line' of your song.

Scott
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#193553 - 08/09/05 12:21 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Thanks Scott... I admit, I am thinking along same lines as you. That's reason I asked! Else, I would have never spent as much time on another version. (Building up Mr. Page, versus history.) Just not sure yet.

It could be that the place to add something such as this is in the bridge, right before that last refrain. I dunno, it's hard to have a song with more than one focus. And... perhaps a song about Shreveport (alone) is due. It really does have quite an incredible history when you look at who was weaned there. I mean, Hank and Elvis? It doesn't get any stronger than that. Back to work.


------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193554 - 08/09/05 12:25 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Bill, after now discovering exactly WHO you were refering to in your song now, your intended message of the song is far clearer. He sounds like he was quite an influential figure in Country Music. Wonderful of you to dedicate your song to him.

Frank Page Disc Jockey/MC: Biography

Listen to: Frank Page Audio

Scott
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#193555 - 08/09/05 01:01 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
This is the lyric as it stands right now.

:

“PAGING MR. PAGE”
©2005 All rights reserved

I took a tour where Elvis got his start
Shreveport Municipal sure played a part
Thought I knew music but met a country sage
My new-found friend, Mr. Page
Mr. Page was the M.C. early on
I learned some juicy things 'bout stars long gone
Then, he said Look around, be sure to stand onstage
I'd made a friend in Mr. Page

[ CHORUS: ]
(I / I'd) roamed the place and (saw/seen) Hank's dressing room
I could hear Mr. Page: Hey Lefty, time to sing a tune
Echos of Kitty and those from Patsy, too
I thought of Elvis, now, what would be his age
And I wondered, back then, what was his wage
I said where is the M.C. of this stage
Paging Mr. Page ( 2x ) ( echo effect like hall intercom? )

[ MODULATE + 1/2 ]
Such hallowed hallways, Shreveport took me back
Back to the early days when Hank was catching flack
Then Elvis rocked the world, the Opry turned him down
We owe so much, they liked kings in this town
I told my new friend, I'll be back again
He said If you act right, I'll tell 'em Let ya in
We made a photograph where Elvis turned to bronze
And James's statue is where he always was

[ CHORUS - REPEAT ]

[ BRIDGE: ]
My bus hit Nashville but I hadn't slept a wink
I'd failed to ask the man, now, what will Mama think
She'd surely want to know, had I asked 'bout Mr. Cash
I grabbed the phone and dialed in a flash (musical riff runup)

Paging Mr. Page ( 3x ) ( vocal echo like hall intercom? )

:


------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193556 - 08/09/05 03:01 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hey bill,
not too bad a tune, i would look at getting a para onto this and dropping a tad at around 65 to 110hz, which should remove some of the "boomy" kick and lower bass frequencies..try to play the guitar parts yourself, even if it is on the keyboard, the pre-programmed gtr chops on the yammi get a bit repetitive and boring, not to mention "twangy"... perhaps drop a bit at say 3-4khz and boost the mid area a bit might help this..the recording of the vocal is quite good, not much to change there, mebbe add a double, or a bit of harmony over the chorus just to keep the listener interested, mebbe a delay on the chorus tag with some "am radio" eq just for fun (and it would add a little "hook")...and maybe lengthen your run into the chorus, it defines whats to come a little better, and builds a little more excitement...one last thing, do look at your panning, it can open up a song so much... this is all just my humble opinion so you can tell me to piss off if you like..just trying to help not offend
cheers
dennis

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#193557 - 08/09/05 03:27 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Dennis, you, nor anyone will ever make me mad with feedback on a song. I have to have it. As a songwriter, I am used to people shooting down perfectly good songs.

It's very hard. As the writer, you have an opinion, sometimes a strong opinion. But usually, feedback helps. It really does. I always listen to people, even if I think they're crazy.

Funny story... last week, played at a dive. A guy there, he's a terrible alcoholic and a motor mouth on top of that. I played an original song, a funny bluesy thing, that every single person I have ever played it for, they love it. He came up to me and said "Hey, uh, you need a little coaching on your songwriting. That's just plain boring." I said "It might be boring but you didn't even listen to the song, you were over there shooting pool and yakking away. It's a STORY song, you missed the hilarious hooks that everyone else thinks are funny."

Which is truly how I felt because he's the first person who has ever NOT enjoyed that song and I was watching him and he wasn't listening. And on top of that, he is one of THE most obnoxious people I've ever met. People can't stand him. I'm one of the few people who don't get mad and tell him to get the hell outta my face. Someone's gonna kill this guy.

Anyway, even though that song has always been well received, I never have been totally comfortable with the structure. I went back to it and definitely improved it. Thanks to the drunk.


------------------
Me Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193558 - 08/09/05 04:01 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
Walt Meyer Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Silver City, NM USA
Me Bill,
Re: recording level.
I checked your level and it is dangerously close to clipping and overload. I measure the "match level" (average level) at -15db.
The level of a commercial CD is generally about -18db except for music with very large dynamic range such as some classical symphonic music. In this case the level has to be lower than -18db.
Your recording sounds good except for occaisonal light clipping which is hard to hear.
I would suggest that you drop your levels about 3db to be safe from clipping.
All else sounds good and clean.
Walt

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#193559 - 08/09/05 11:51 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
andym Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 7
Hello SemiLiveMusic,

I downloaded your song "Paging Mr. Page" and converted the MP3 file to a WAV file. I brought up the WAV file on my Cool Edit program. It displays the entire waveform showing the amplitude of every sample. There was no clipping. There were only 2 places in the entire waveform where the amplitude approached maximum value (saturation level) and these were of a duration of only 1 sample width. The sample rate of the WAV waveform is 44,100 samples per sec. So you can say there was no distortion due to clipping because there was no clipping.

I was impressed with the clarity of your voice, You must have a very good recording microphone. I liked the balance between your voice and the backing. I thought it was just right.

Andym

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#193560 - 08/10/05 01:06 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
I kind of liked it, but be aware that this kind of music is totally unknown to me. I know that Hank Williams is/was?? a famous musician and that he has a son of the same name, but I don't know why exactly

I listened through el-cheapo computer speakers at work. I would like to have a little more pronounced drums.
I couldn't hear any bass line but I blame the speakers on this.

I noticed two stutters, one in 1:03 and the one in 1:08
"[stutter]I thought of Elvis, now, what would be his age, And [stutter]I wondered..."
Stuttering just before/while before pronouncing the "I" both times, it is suspicious.

Other than that, looking through all member's comments, I dare say that manic2257's were the most interesting, I would agree.
Theodore

PS listen to the song in your car, have it play while you are in another room making dinner or washing plates, while watching tv etc, you will get a more "casual listener feeling". Oh well you probably you know that already....
Best of luck

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 08-10-2005).]

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#193561 - 08/10/05 12:55 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
*** DO-OVER *** NEW *************************

Okay, take #97. I went ahead and started over. As I said, I wanted this more rockabilly anyway. I also have continually worked on the story in the lyric.

Link (TOTALLY NEW STYLE - ROCKABILLY):
Here is the new MP3 (done at 128)

Go to bottom of first page, click on FREE, then at bottom of next page, click on "pagerk3" filename.) It's a site for uploading temporary files, totally free. Recommended by engineers to me, I've been using it, it works great for temp files.

Remember, I don't know what I'm doing. When I imported these tracks (two keyboard tracks, one acoustic guitar track) into Audacity software, the waveform looked fine, no peaks off scale. Then I closed, imported to Krystal software, tweaked e.q. and added a little reverb. Mixed down, there are many short-duration peaks in the waveform that are either off scale or near it. But I'm not sure if hear distortion or not. My ears are tired.

I need to finish this today so I can get it in the hands of 'experts' tomorrow. They will know it's a home demo but I want it good as I can get it. If anyone has any more comments, good or bad, it's greatly appreciated. Regarding fidelity or song or whatever. Thanks.


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-10-2005).]
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~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193562 - 08/10/05 01:32 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Bill,
Will you email the new lyrics and chords to me.
Thanks,
Don
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#193563 - 08/10/05 02:16 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
Quote:
Originally posted by trident:

Other than that, looking through all member's comments, I dare say that manic2257's were the most interesting, I would agree.
Theodore

PS listen to the song in your car, have it play while you are in another room making dinner or washing plates, while watching tv etc, you will get a more "casual listener feeling". Oh well you probably you know that already....
Best of luck

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 08-10-2005).][/B]


thanks theodore! its nice when someone else is on the same wavelength and i also agree with you in that when you do a recording , listen to it on other gear and in other places..it makes a huge difference.
cheers
dennis

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#193564 - 08/10/05 02:24 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hey bill...i guess it's like someone else mentioned in an earlier post, it depends on how serious you want to get...i still recommend you(and i KNOW this takes time and is a PIA) record each instrument individually and then go and edit each one seperately and then together...this way you get total control over the entire mix, not just pre-set levels eq and panning according to the techs at yamaha.I mean i even go to the trouble of splitting the drum track (whislt still in MIDI form) into the various single intruments and then edit and effect them indivudually, but thats just me....but just editing the "whole arranger mix" in toto doesnt give you the control necessary to get a good mix all the time, albeit its a LOT LOT easier and quicker....as i said depends on how serious you are, and how much time you have...
cheers
dennis

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#193565 - 08/10/05 02:27 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Dennis, that's the direction I'm heading but I do not have time right now. Plus, I need some more hardware to do it.

If anyone can listen to the new recording (posted a few posts up) and has an opinion, let me know. Thanks.


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193566 - 08/10/05 02:37 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hi bill, i have now listened to the new version...hmmmm imho i think it is not an improvement..there is some "whacky" thing going on in the background, sorta like a washboard thing??? very annoying...the bass is way too "boomy".. in my view only of course the vocal, as was the case in the other version, is fine..on the other instruments, the highs are too bright (still a bit "twangy")and there are virtually no mids, so most of the instrumentation is quite thin, and the bottom end is boomy.. did you mix this using headphones or monitors? also if i may ask, what mic are you using? (not for any reason other than curiosity )
cheers
dennis
PS the original version, which i just re-listened to is more interesting to listen to, and prob just needed a bit of "tweaking" rather than a style re-write, although to you it seemed good coz you've prob listened to the earlier one a 1000 times, and to you its now a bit boring??
i have to say that the new version is just a bit too "cheesy" for my taste...just a suggestion, but have you tried, using the original, removing some instruments and backing sounds, as this song is imo led by the story in the vocal, and the vocal itself which "fits" this song beautifully..
just a thought...
dennis
PPS...meant to say this before but it's great to see a songwriter tell their story without necessarily having to rhyme..good job on the lyrics..soz..meant to say that a lot earlier but go sidetracked ..dennis
[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).]

[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).]

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#193567 - 08/10/05 03:03 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Screw it, I give up.

I am using an Audix OM5 mic. It was mixed using headphones. Cheap ones.

I appreciate help. It is obvious I don't know enough to pull this off for decent recordings. They'll do for work demo's but this one needs to be better than a work demo but I'm running out of time. I could just haul my keyboard and guitar to a studio and do it in one session.

The style might be kinda screwball. I'd bet it's been tweaked.

The acoustic guitar, that's not mic'd, it's using the onboard electronics. Cheap Takamine.

I just imported the original tracks. Two keyboard tracks, one acoustic guitar. Then converted that to mp3 without touching the tracks. Nothing. I have wondered if I'm screwing up the mix worse by messing with e.q. and reverb, etc.

This is that MP3 file . FWIW. Not much, huh.


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-10-2005).]
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#193568 - 08/10/05 03:11 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by manic2257:

i have to say that the new version is just a bit too "cheesy" for my taste.


Hey Dennis, what do you mean this one is cheesy? Are you referring to the music or the lyric? (Again, not offended, just want to know what you mean.) Not that I'll agree with you. But I might.

I did the re-conversion (mp3) of the second version before I saw your comment.

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-10-2005).]
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#193569 - 08/10/05 03:19 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hey bill read my PPS on the last post!! and by that i mean good lyrics , you are telling a story which is clear (at least to me !) to the listener, as long as the listener REALLY listens and does'nt just hear..as i have said the vocal is great and does its job properly of leading the song and focusing on the story..the instrumentation however, in some places is destructive rather than enhancing..
cheers
dennis
den

[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).]

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#193570 - 08/10/05 03:27 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hey bill, long time no speak!!!
okly dokly, you should (DONT GIVE UP) re-mix this using external monitors (cans are good for tracking, but not much else) even if the monitoring is thru the home stereo system...better than nothing...just make sure any loudness switches are off, and "enhancement"features are off and the eq (if provided) is set to flat.. you play gtr? so why not try recording just the vocal and gtr for the first vs, then lead in with lilmited instruments, mebb just bass and drums for the second, and then all in for the first chorus...just an idea
dennis...(i am d'loading the original now)
mate...stick with page8, much better than the rockabilly version..imho of course!

[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).]

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#193571 - 08/10/05 03:42 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
Quote:
Originally posted by SemiLiveMusic:
Screw it, I give up.

I am using an Audix OM5 mic. It was mixed using headphones. Cheap ones.

I appreciate help. It is obvious I don't know enough to pull this off for decent recordings. They'll do for work demo's but this one needs to be better than a work demo but I'm running out of time. I could just haul my keyboard and guitar to a studio and do it in one session.

The style might be kinda screwball. I'd bet it's been tweaked.

The acoustic guitar, that's not mic'd, it's using the onboard electronics. Cheap Takamine.

I just imported the original tracks. Two keyboard tracks, one acoustic guitar. Then converted that to mp3 without touching the tracks. Nothing. I have wondered if I'm screwing up the mix worse by messing with e.q. and reverb, etc.

[


bill,
1. dont use cans for mixing.
2. go to the mic web page, or get the manual for it and find out its maximum threshold eg it might be 100db, and ensure your tracking does not exceed this, and in fact stays at least 10%below this..say 35% for cheaper mics.
3.you don't have to "know" a great deal. use your ears objectively, and listen to your mix on different devices, even a portable MP3 player will give you a different perspective.
4.work out what you want your song to do and then mix it accordingly..for example this song tells a story, let the vocal lead, and use minimum instrumentation, imagine you have a band, drummer, bass, gtr and piano, and mix it like you would hear them playing it.
5.sometimes (mostly!!!) the simpler the better, constant tweaking takes you further and further from the original.
6. minimum use of reverb, it just muddies things up and lessens any definition and pushes instruments back in the mix, and can, in some case make the whole thing sound thin and lifeless (yes i know that seems a contradiction, but it can happen)
7. when you make a major change to the mix, walk away, go play golf, go for a walk, have a sleep, go outside whatever....just make sure you have break and then come back and re-listen.
theres more but i hope that helps you..
soz one more thing,8. its dificult, but mic the gtr,then you'll get more of the nice harmonics, and resonances of the gtr itself, plus the airspace around it, which wil make it a lot "warmer"..about 7-12 inches out and roughly pointed in the direction of the space between the sound hole and the end of the fret board...aim further up the fretboard for slightly thinner.
most important DONT GIVE UP!!!!!
cheers
dennis


[This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).]

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#193572 - 08/10/05 03:58 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Dennis, I was lacing my shoes up for a hike (no kidding) and read your post. I'm going to the river, yep. Frogs and hawks and coyotes. Which reminds me... last time I was there, a big hawk swooped down at a coyote pup. I yelled when he was striking and saved the pup. Yay, me.

Anyway, one last question. Yes, when I originally wrote this, I wanted something kinda "mellow." Then I went to the Municipal AGAIN (really) and I got to reading some exhibits and got to thinking about early rockabilly. And I thought it would be very appropos to make this song rockabilly.

Now, I _love_ rockabilly. So, question to Dennis is, do you? Do you not like rockabilly? Or do you not like this particular style? Or not with this song?

I thought I was on to something with that rockabilly thing.

Of course, you and I both realize I could ask 100 people about a song and get 50 answers. But I do respect your opinion, as I do anyone who is familiar with the genre in question.

One of the hardest things about songwriting is you work so long on a song, at least, I do, you get to where you start not trusting yourself. I find that if a song really trips my trigger, it almost always finds favor with most people. But the thing is, sometimes a song has to kind of grow on you.

Lorrie Morgan personally turned down "Woman In Red" five times. That's incredible. A career song and she turned it down five times. Not her agent, not her publisher, SHE turned it down five times. Then she got it.

Recently, I heard a George Strait song. I didn't like it. Second time, I liked it. Third time, I really liked it.

It ain't easy or everyone would do it. I thought mastering songwriting was the hardest thing I'd ever tried. Nope, recording is.

Thanks much!


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Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193573 - 08/10/05 05:42 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
girljam Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 246
Loc: FL
Bill,
here's my untrained/untechie opinion . . .

I DO like rockabilly, but I MUCH prefer the first version - much nicer to MY ears!!!
It just seemed easier to listen to = does that make sense??
Just trying to give you another opinion on the "listenability" . . .

Jill
_________________________
Jill

PSR S970, PSR S910, ShureSM57 mics, and way too much misc.

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#193574 - 08/10/05 06:25 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hi bill..
"..i'm a rockabilly rebel...." etc etc
mate i am not averse to rockabilly, or any other "category" of music. i like some but not all of pretty much anything ('cept billy joel and elton john of course)...i just think that your song does not suit that feel, your original idea was the best (ain't they always!!!!)for this narrative style lyric...you know "less is more"..thas all i meant.
i hope you enjoy your walk, it is such a nice thing to do!!!
cya
dennis

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#193575 - 08/10/05 06:30 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
Quote:
Originally posted by girljam:
Bill,
here's my untrained/untechie opinion . . .

I DO like rockabilly, but I MUCH prefer the first version - much nicer to MY ears!!!
It just seemed easier to listen to = does that make sense??
Just trying to give you another opinion on the "listenability" . . .

Jill

hey jill, you have just hit the nail on the head...you used your ears to determine what you liked about this song, not a raft of technical reasons...its why so many "home recorders" can do such a good job, they use their listening abilities...my knowledge compared to a "real" techie is about a pixel on widescreen monitor..i know enuf to get out (or into!!!! ) of trouble when there is conflict in a mix...but ultimately i end up just using my ears.
dennis
peace, out

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#193576 - 08/10/05 09:51 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
Tony Rome Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 1374
Loc: Cozumel Mexico
Hey Bill....I just heard both versions, I have to tell ya that I agree with Jill, I like the first version better, for the same reason that Jill did...easier to listen to and I might add, it seemed that you were more relaxed or more into it naturaly..what I mean is you seemed more tense or pushing it to finish...the voice and vocals were
great IMHO on the first take, the second take appeared to be uneasy so to speak..hell
I don't know about the tech stuff..when I record, I have the tech guys do the stuff that needs to be done...I trust them and it always seems to work for me...also, you changed the lyrics on the second take and I'm not sure which I liked best....good showing...don't quit or give up, hang in there, I believe that you have talent and you should go for the gusto..get it all..
thanks for sharing.....
Tony Rome

[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 08-10-2005).]

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#193577 - 08/11/05 03:30 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
I prefer the page8 version, for reasons unknown, even to me.

The Page3 version has a more "driving fast in the highway" feel that I like,
but on the other hand,
it brought in my mind the Dukes of Hazzard flying in the air, with Roscoe not far behind.

Maybe that's what manic2257 describes as "cheesy".

I am not trying to say it is useless, but I like the "let me tell you a story with my guitar" feel of the page8 better.
Theodore

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#193578 - 08/11/05 05:11 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
renig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 643
Loc: Canada
I'm in agreement with the folks here who like the first version better. I always think that 'story' songs are better when they keep a warmer, closer-to-the-listener feel.

To try to better illustrate this comment, think of when you were a child sitting on your grandad's knee and he'd tell you some tale or other. You, as the listener, would hang on every word, and a huge part of loving those stories, which you probably still remember, would have come from the intimacy with which they were told. This is why I like the first version of your song, and, if you can get it even 'warmer' (the techies can handle that part of it as I think your vocal delivery doesn't need to change one bit) then I think the strength of the song will have an even greater impact on the listener.

I want to wish you all the best with this song and hope it does 'break through' for you.

P.S. In the lyric you mention a 'James' who has a statue of himself in the Auditorium. Who is the 'James'? Just curious.

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#193579 - 08/11/05 05:42 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
James is James Burton, the living legend guitarist. Started out with Ricky Nelson but is most famous for being Elvis' guitarist for nine years. Guitarist for many other touring acts. Still touring and doing session work. Next week, hosts the James Burton International Guitar Festival with a BIG SHOW at the Municipal with many other living legend guitar gods.

Okay, I'm gonna stick with the first version for now. Later, I'll run both versions by more people.

Think of it this way. There were a few reasons I had wanted to try rockabilly. First, uptempo and bouncy is favored in the songwriting world. Most songwriters have difficulty writing uptempo. Ballads are a dime a dozen. Although, this was never a ballad. But if you have two ways to go with a song, the snappy one will get the most attention. Of course, the song has to work.

Second, rockabilly was largely brought to the forefront at this building. Johnny Cash, Elvis, even in some Hank Williams, you can hear what would become rockabilly.

Third, James Burton. I thought he would love it a whole lot more if it were rockabilly because he is credited with 'inventing' the 'chicken-pickin' guitar style. I could have a good guitarist on this song tear it up.

EDIT: And I have TONS of story songs that are not bouncy and free. PLENTY!

So, I dunno but for now, first version. Thanks to all!

As far as giving up, heck, I'm not giving up, that was just a funny. I might give up for a few hours but that's it!


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-11-2005).]
_________________________
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#193580 - 08/11/05 10:17 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
You've all been very helpful, I'm done (as much as I can be for now) and thought I'd post the song in case anyone wants to hear -- Paging Mr. Page, Take 107 . (Lyric changed some.)

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-16-2005).]
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#193581 - 08/11/05 02:51 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
hey bill....much better, good job..just wondering, what conpression did you use on the final mix? as the only thing is a bit of "pumping", well it seemd like it...like the compression was a bit too strong, mebbe it was just my system here??? overall though, a very enjoyable song, and one that grwos on you, the more you listen, im off to check out your latest posting now.
cheers
dennis

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#193582 - 08/11/05 03:14 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Dennis, thank you for listening again. I don' think I compressed it any. This version was done in Audacity and it's much slower to tweak than Krystal software. Krystal is like instantaneous, Audacity takes couple of minutes to render the effect.

First, I had a better signal from the getgo. Slowly figuring that out. Second, I rolled back on lows and highs and kept mids same. And panned the keyboard tracks a bit left and right, with guitar in center. Nothing done to the guitar. I could have fattened it but I was out of time.


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
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Bill

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#193583 - 08/11/05 03:26 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi Bill, congratulations! I believe your lyrics have improved tremondously, finally grabbing me (as a listener) with intense interest now. I feel you've captured the magical essence of the powerful force he's been at the Shreveport Municipal, MC'ing so many pioneering stars of Country Music. "Mr Page" is a winner\ to my ears.

My only (slight) disappointment is that your lyric didn't include a single mention of Gentleman Jim Reeves (both Country singer extrodanaire & Radio announcer as well), who Frank Page was the one who had hired as a staff announcer at KWKH.

Idea: Contact local Shreveport radio DJ's. Perhaps they might become interested in play your song over the airwaves. Maybe Frank Page is listening. Let us know. - Scott

Scott
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#193584 - 08/11/05 03:35 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Scott, funny you mention Jim Reeves. I actually thought about that. If I put everyone in there, it would be lots of names! But his, specifically, I did consider him. Might still.

I will have to ask Mr. Page again but I think he told me that Jim Reeves got his break when a star didn't show up or got sick or something happened and they said "Uh, Jim, wanna sing some songs?" And that was his break. I'll find out and let you know. If I have it right, it's a cool story.

I'm glad you like it, Scott!


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#193585 - 08/11/05 11:38 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Good.

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#193586 - 08/14/05 04:32 PM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
I like the "feel" of the first one better.
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#193587 - 08/16/05 09:06 AM Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I have my computer sound running into a Behringer 1204FX mixer, then into Logitech Z2200 system. When Bill was here yesterday, I discovered that if I turned down the input from the computer to the mixer, the vocals no longer sounded distorted.
I wasn't having this problem on any of my other music, so I must surmise that Bill's recordings are hotter than all mine, but not necessarily over the line, as I suspected earlier.
Anyway the songs sound quite good now.
DonM
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DonM

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