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#193540 - 08/09/05 06:28 AM
Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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NOTE: This song has been re-recorded. Here it is: "PAGING MR. PAGE" ... HERE IS ORIGINAL POST: This song is an original, "Paging Mr. Page" and it's driving me nuts trying to get a recording with good fidelity. All of this was done on psr2000, vocals going through psr2000, no overdubs, recorded on Fostex mr-8, tweaked in Krystal software, converted to mp3 in Dbpoweramp at 192. I just need to know if there is any clipping or if you hear any distortion. As well as any fidelity comments. Or if you love/hate the song, a comment either way is appeciated. Paging Mr. Page mp3 (Go to bottom of first page, click on FREE, then at bottom of next page, click on "PAGE8" filename.) It's a site for uploading temporary files, totally free. Recommended by engineers to me, I've been using it, it works great for temp files. P.S. There is a spot in the chorus where I say about Elvis "And I wondered back then what was his wage" and it barfs a little and it sounds like I chuckle. Which is rather fortunate that it happened right there but it was unintentional. That's a psr2000 quirk. Or that style quirk. ------------------ Me Bill Yamaha PSR2000 [This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-23-2005).]
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193541 - 08/09/05 06:41 AM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Member
Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 246
Loc: FL
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me bill - i'm listening to it right now, and i must tell you, it's one of the clearest sounding recordings i've heard lately. I can hear every little strum, and every single one of your words/vocals is clearly audible. You know i'm no techie, but i'm giving the whole things a thumbs up - the song itself too!! You are very creative!!
The little "chuckle" actually came out perfect, altho it wasn't meant to! You are right, it came in at a perfect spot!
Just my little opinion, but I wouldn't change a thing . . .
Jill
_________________________
Jill
PSR S970, PSR S910, ShureSM57 mics, and way too much misc.
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#193546 - 08/09/05 09:07 AM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Member
Registered: 03/08/01
Posts: 640
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN, USA
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Hey Lefty, I like it. I like the song, very catchy lyrics. Like Jill said, very clear. Here's some technical stuff (my opinion, of course). I don't hear any distortion from the few places it clips (using Sound Forge 7)(keep in mind, I'm 45 and listened to my music real loud as a kid). 0:16.5 0:32 1:20.8 1:32 2:47.5 Those are all minutes and seconds into the song where the meters show clipping. But again I didn't notice any real distortion there. But about the quirk you mentioned (1:08 into the song when you sing, "And I wondered"), I think that's the harmonizer and it sounds like it's stuttering to me. At 2:30 into it, you sing the same verse and there's no stuttering. I heard the same thing in Scott Yee's Coffeehouse song (Tyros). What is that? The harmonizer not quite ready for action, levels too high, threshold being broken, something is happenin' there. That aside, I enjoyed what I listened to. If you were in my town, I'd definitely come to hear you sing. -mike
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#193549 - 08/09/05 09:31 AM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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clipping. But again I didn't notice any real distortion there.
Mike, thanks for that, that will help to look at waveform at those places.
But about the quirk you mentioned
I don't know... the psr2000 with this style has been barfing some.
vocals were all very clear - seemed like they might be a bit too loud compared to the background at times.
Carrie, I agree. Still working on that.
I would drop the style's strings altogother and overdub your own string lines in, for example.
Yes, I thought the strings were weak.
different drums in using commercial audio drum loops
This is something I have asked about lately! I was thinking that on into the future, I could do all tracks and then wipe out the drums and do them with good drum loops. I also thought of hiring a real drummer. Seriously. I love drums and if anything sounds "not live," it's drums. But they are getting drum loops pretty amazing these days.
too much treble
nielshs, I boosted the highs in e.q. and I guess I went too far. I'm also hard of hearing, high frequency loss, so, that alone could explain that.
Thanks to all! This is a song I'm really wondering about... if people like the song. Because it is obviously about the Municipal Auditorium in Shreveport, Louisiana. The Louisiana Hayride was held there. An amazing history. You can thank the place (and hey, Mr. Page!) for Hank Williams, Johnny Horton, Elvis, Slim Whitman, George Jones, Johnny Cash. That's an amazing statement but it's true!
So, I have continually worked on this lyric to try to make it appealing to people outside this area. I had two ways I was going with it.
First was to build the story more around Mr. Page and his senior citizenship and how they can positively influence your life. Second was to showcase the history more than Mr. Page but Mr. Page remain a focal point. I chose the latter, thinking the historical perspective would create more "universal" acceptance. Something you strive for in songwriting.
The place is mostly known for the country music stars it nurtured, "the cradle of the stars." But I wanted to figure out how to bring rock into that as well because it's true, Elvis was rejected by the Grand Ol' Opry and The Louisiana Hayride accepted him. That's where he built the personna of early Elvis that changed the world.
Haha, it ain't easy or everybody would be a songwriter. I have a very strong opinion about this song but I have to get other people's opinions. So, thanks!
P.S. Carrie, when I wrote this on guitar... the rhythm I could hear for drums was a very fast and prominent rhythm. I love drums! More of a rockabilly style. This particular version is kind of mellow. Which I like, but I might like to rockabilly it up even better.
------------------ Me Bill Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193551 - 08/09/05 11:24 AM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Originally posted by Scottyee: Was Mr. Page an actual MC of the Shreveport Municipal Auditorium, or is he merely a fictional character? For whatever reason, I didn't develop much empathy for him, as your song told nothing more about him other than the fact he was the MC of the Shreveport Municipal Auditorium where all the legendary Country superstars got their start. I kept waiting for your song (lyrics) to reveal MORE about this guy, perhaps something profound in the 'last line' of the song. Thanks Scott, this is something I am fishing for. But I am not looking for 'empathy' for Mr. Page. There is no need for empathy. I would ask "Do you LIKE Mr. Page?" Not "Do you have empathy for Mr. Page." Because again, there's no need to have empathy. "Likeability" is what I was envisioning. (I probably am saying same thing you are.) As I said in a post above, another version, I was building Mr. Page up more. The other direction was to create a song with this cool Mr. Page and how I feel humbled that this cool senior citizen came into my life. I have another version with verses to build on this... building up senior citizens through Mr. Page. He's a cool guy, he's older 'n dirt, he knows a lot of stuff, I like him. And he made a positive impact on my life. (In the song.) The problem is twofold. First, what is the "right" way. Right way meaning most commercial. Because this is potentially a commercial song. I said potentially... it's one in a million even if the song is the best song ever. Second, it is going to be very hard indeed, and maybe even impossible to build on history and Mr. Page's character and impact on the singer... and keep it under 4 minutes and preferably, under 3:40. Those are self-imposed guidelines. (This version is 3:35. The other thing I have wondered about this song is say heck with it, make it a 4:20 song and say everything I want to say. I use David Ball's smash hit "Riding With Private Malone" as my yardstick for story songs in contemporary country music. That song is over 400 words and I think, it's 4:20. A great song and a huge hit. But it's certainly not the norm. I am ALWAYS trying to say more with less. But it's very hard to do. Thanks again, Scott. If anyone else has a comment, ye or nay, please do. I've already spent about a hundred hours on writing this song. No exaggeration. But I have to move and move fast, there is an opportunity for me locally and possibly regionally that's been presented to me. Oh yeah... yes, Mr. Page is a real person and the event (Mr. Page and I and the Municipal)... that really happened. In fact, just last night, I happened to turn the t.v. on PBS and who was on the screen? Mr. Page! True! I couldn't believe it. A show about the early days of radio in Louisiana -- Making Waves (LPB) . ------------------ Me Bill Yamaha PSR2000 [This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-09-2005).]
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193555 - 08/09/05 01:01 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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This is the lyric as it stands right now.
:
“PAGING MR. PAGE” ©2005 All rights reserved
I took a tour where Elvis got his start Shreveport Municipal sure played a part Thought I knew music but met a country sage My new-found friend, Mr. Page Mr. Page was the M.C. early on I learned some juicy things 'bout stars long gone Then, he said Look around, be sure to stand onstage I'd made a friend in Mr. Page
[ CHORUS: ] (I / I'd) roamed the place and (saw/seen) Hank's dressing room I could hear Mr. Page: Hey Lefty, time to sing a tune Echos of Kitty and those from Patsy, too I thought of Elvis, now, what would be his age And I wondered, back then, what was his wage I said where is the M.C. of this stage Paging Mr. Page ( 2x ) ( echo effect like hall intercom? )
[ MODULATE + 1/2 ] Such hallowed hallways, Shreveport took me back Back to the early days when Hank was catching flack Then Elvis rocked the world, the Opry turned him down We owe so much, they liked kings in this town I told my new friend, I'll be back again He said If you act right, I'll tell 'em Let ya in We made a photograph where Elvis turned to bronze And James's statue is where he always was
[ CHORUS - REPEAT ]
[ BRIDGE: ] My bus hit Nashville but I hadn't slept a wink I'd failed to ask the man, now, what will Mama think She'd surely want to know, had I asked 'bout Mr. Cash I grabbed the phone and dialed in a flash (musical riff runup)
Paging Mr. Page ( 3x ) ( vocal echo like hall intercom? )
:
------------------ Me Bill Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193556 - 08/09/05 03:01 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Member
Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
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hey bill, not too bad a tune, i would look at getting a para onto this and dropping a tad at around 65 to 110hz, which should remove some of the "boomy" kick and lower bass frequencies..try to play the guitar parts yourself, even if it is on the keyboard, the pre-programmed gtr chops on the yammi get a bit repetitive and boring, not to mention "twangy"... perhaps drop a bit at say 3-4khz and boost the mid area a bit might help this..the recording of the vocal is quite good, not much to change there, mebbe add a double, or a bit of harmony over the chorus just to keep the listener interested, mebbe a delay on the chorus tag with some "am radio" eq just for fun (and it would add a little "hook")...and maybe lengthen your run into the chorus, it defines whats to come a little better, and builds a little more excitement...one last thing, do look at your panning, it can open up a song so much... this is all just my humble opinion so you can tell me to piss off if you like..just trying to help not offend cheers dennis
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#193557 - 08/09/05 03:27 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Dennis, you, nor anyone will ever make me mad with feedback on a song. I have to have it. As a songwriter, I am used to people shooting down perfectly good songs. It's very hard. As the writer, you have an opinion, sometimes a strong opinion. But usually, feedback helps. It really does. I always listen to people, even if I think they're crazy. Funny story... last week, played at a dive. A guy there, he's a terrible alcoholic and a motor mouth on top of that. I played an original song, a funny bluesy thing, that every single person I have ever played it for, they love it. He came up to me and said "Hey, uh, you need a little coaching on your songwriting. That's just plain boring." I said "It might be boring but you didn't even listen to the song, you were over there shooting pool and yakking away. It's a STORY song, you missed the hilarious hooks that everyone else thinks are funny." Which is truly how I felt because he's the first person who has ever NOT enjoyed that song and I was watching him and he wasn't listening. And on top of that, he is one of THE most obnoxious people I've ever met. People can't stand him. I'm one of the few people who don't get mad and tell him to get the hell outta my face. Someone's gonna kill this guy. Anyway, even though that song has always been well received, I never have been totally comfortable with the structure. I went back to it and definitely improved it. Thanks to the drunk. ------------------ Me Bill Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193560 - 08/10/05 01:06 AM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
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I kind of liked it, but be aware that this kind of music is totally unknown to me. I know that Hank Williams is/was?? a famous musician and that he has a son of the same name, but I don't know why exactly I listened through el-cheapo computer speakers at work. I would like to have a little more pronounced drums. I couldn't hear any bass line but I blame the speakers on this. I noticed two stutters, one in 1:03 and the one in 1:08 "[stutter]I thought of Elvis, now, what would be his age, And [stutter]I wondered..." Stuttering just before/while before pronouncing the "I" both times, it is suspicious. Other than that, looking through all member's comments, I dare say that manic2257's were the most interesting, I would agree. Theodore PS listen to the song in your car, have it play while you are in another room making dinner or washing plates, while watching tv etc, you will get a more "casual listener feeling". Oh well you probably you know that already.... Best of luck [This message has been edited by trident (edited 08-10-2005).]
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#193561 - 08/10/05 12:55 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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*** DO-OVER *** NEW ************************* Okay, take #97. I went ahead and started over. As I said, I wanted this more rockabilly anyway. I also have continually worked on the story in the lyric. Link (TOTALLY NEW STYLE - ROCKABILLY): Here is the new MP3 (done at 128) Go to bottom of first page, click on FREE, then at bottom of next page, click on "pagerk3" filename.) It's a site for uploading temporary files, totally free. Recommended by engineers to me, I've been using it, it works great for temp files. Remember, I don't know what I'm doing. When I imported these tracks (two keyboard tracks, one acoustic guitar track) into Audacity software, the waveform looked fine, no peaks off scale. Then I closed, imported to Krystal software, tweaked e.q. and added a little reverb. Mixed down, there are many short-duration peaks in the waveform that are either off scale or near it. But I'm not sure if hear distortion or not. My ears are tired. I need to finish this today so I can get it in the hands of 'experts' tomorrow. They will know it's a home demo but I want it good as I can get it. If anyone has any more comments, good or bad, it's greatly appreciated. Regarding fidelity or song or whatever. Thanks. ------------------ Bill Yamaha PSR2000 [This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-10-2005).]
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193566 - 08/10/05 02:37 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Member
Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
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hi bill, i have now listened to the new version...hmmmm imho i think it is not an improvement..there is some "whacky" thing going on in the background, sorta like a washboard thing??? very annoying...the bass is way too "boomy".. in my view only of course the vocal, as was the case in the other version, is fine..on the other instruments, the highs are too bright (still a bit "twangy")and there are virtually no mids, so most of the instrumentation is quite thin, and the bottom end is boomy.. did you mix this using headphones or monitors? also if i may ask, what mic are you using? (not for any reason other than curiosity ) cheers dennis PS the original version, which i just re-listened to is more interesting to listen to, and prob just needed a bit of "tweaking" rather than a style re-write, although to you it seemed good coz you've prob listened to the earlier one a 1000 times, and to you its now a bit boring?? i have to say that the new version is just a bit too "cheesy" for my taste...just a suggestion, but have you tried, using the original, removing some instruments and backing sounds, as this song is imo led by the story in the vocal, and the vocal itself which "fits" this song beautifully.. just a thought... dennis PPS...meant to say this before but it's great to see a songwriter tell their story without necessarily having to rhyme..good job on the lyrics..soz..meant to say that a lot earlier but go sidetracked ..dennis [This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).] [This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).]
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#193567 - 08/10/05 03:03 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Screw it, I give up. I am using an Audix OM5 mic. It was mixed using headphones. Cheap ones. I appreciate help. It is obvious I don't know enough to pull this off for decent recordings. They'll do for work demo's but this one needs to be better than a work demo but I'm running out of time. I could just haul my keyboard and guitar to a studio and do it in one session. The style might be kinda screwball. I'd bet it's been tweaked. The acoustic guitar, that's not mic'd, it's using the onboard electronics. Cheap Takamine. I just imported the original tracks. Two keyboard tracks, one acoustic guitar. Then converted that to mp3 without touching the tracks. Nothing. I have wondered if I'm screwing up the mix worse by messing with e.q. and reverb, etc. This is that MP3 file . FWIW. Not much, huh. ------------------ Bill Yamaha PSR2000 [This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-10-2005).]
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193571 - 08/10/05 03:42 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Member
Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
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Originally posted by SemiLiveMusic: Screw it, I give up.
I am using an Audix OM5 mic. It was mixed using headphones. Cheap ones.
I appreciate help. It is obvious I don't know enough to pull this off for decent recordings. They'll do for work demo's but this one needs to be better than a work demo but I'm running out of time. I could just haul my keyboard and guitar to a studio and do it in one session.
The style might be kinda screwball. I'd bet it's been tweaked.
The acoustic guitar, that's not mic'd, it's using the onboard electronics. Cheap Takamine.
I just imported the original tracks. Two keyboard tracks, one acoustic guitar. Then converted that to mp3 without touching the tracks. Nothing. I have wondered if I'm screwing up the mix worse by messing with e.q. and reverb, etc.
[
bill, 1. dont use cans for mixing. 2. go to the mic web page, or get the manual for it and find out its maximum threshold eg it might be 100db, and ensure your tracking does not exceed this, and in fact stays at least 10%below this..say 35% for cheaper mics. 3.you don't have to "know" a great deal. use your ears objectively, and listen to your mix on different devices, even a portable MP3 player will give you a different perspective. 4.work out what you want your song to do and then mix it accordingly..for example this song tells a story, let the vocal lead, and use minimum instrumentation, imagine you have a band, drummer, bass, gtr and piano, and mix it like you would hear them playing it. 5.sometimes (mostly!!!) the simpler the better, constant tweaking takes you further and further from the original. 6. minimum use of reverb, it just muddies things up and lessens any definition and pushes instruments back in the mix, and can, in some case make the whole thing sound thin and lifeless (yes i know that seems a contradiction, but it can happen) 7. when you make a major change to the mix, walk away, go play golf, go for a walk, have a sleep, go outside whatever....just make sure you have break and then come back and re-listen. theres more but i hope that helps you.. soz one more thing,8. its dificult, but mic the gtr,then you'll get more of the nice harmonics, and resonances of the gtr itself, plus the airspace around it, which wil make it a lot "warmer"..about 7-12 inches out and roughly pointed in the direction of the space between the sound hole and the end of the fret board...aim further up the fretboard for slightly thinner. most important DONT GIVE UP!!!!! cheers dennis [This message has been edited by manic2257 (edited 08-10-2005).]
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#193572 - 08/10/05 03:58 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Dennis, I was lacing my shoes up for a hike (no kidding) and read your post. I'm going to the river, yep. Frogs and hawks and coyotes. Which reminds me... last time I was there, a big hawk swooped down at a coyote pup. I yelled when he was striking and saved the pup. Yay, me. Anyway, one last question. Yes, when I originally wrote this, I wanted something kinda "mellow." Then I went to the Municipal AGAIN (really) and I got to reading some exhibits and got to thinking about early rockabilly. And I thought it would be very appropos to make this song rockabilly. Now, I _love_ rockabilly. So, question to Dennis is, do you? Do you not like rockabilly? Or do you not like this particular style? Or not with this song? I thought I was on to something with that rockabilly thing. Of course, you and I both realize I could ask 100 people about a song and get 50 answers. But I do respect your opinion, as I do anyone who is familiar with the genre in question. One of the hardest things about songwriting is you work so long on a song, at least, I do, you get to where you start not trusting yourself. I find that if a song really trips my trigger, it almost always finds favor with most people. But the thing is, sometimes a song has to kind of grow on you. Lorrie Morgan personally turned down "Woman In Red" five times. That's incredible. A career song and she turned it down five times. Not her agent, not her publisher, SHE turned it down five times. Then she got it. Recently, I heard a George Strait song. I didn't like it. Second time, I liked it. Third time, I really liked it. It ain't easy or everyone would do it. I thought mastering songwriting was the hardest thing I'd ever tried. Nope, recording is. Thanks much! ------------------ Bill Yamaha PSR2000
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193579 - 08/11/05 05:42 AM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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James is James Burton, the living legend guitarist. Started out with Ricky Nelson but is most famous for being Elvis' guitarist for nine years. Guitarist for many other touring acts. Still touring and doing session work. Next week, hosts the James Burton International Guitar Festival with a BIG SHOW at the Municipal with many other living legend guitar gods.
Okay, I'm gonna stick with the first version for now. Later, I'll run both versions by more people.
Think of it this way. There were a few reasons I had wanted to try rockabilly. First, uptempo and bouncy is favored in the songwriting world. Most songwriters have difficulty writing uptempo. Ballads are a dime a dozen. Although, this was never a ballad. But if you have two ways to go with a song, the snappy one will get the most attention. Of course, the song has to work.
Second, rockabilly was largely brought to the forefront at this building. Johnny Cash, Elvis, even in some Hank Williams, you can hear what would become rockabilly.
Third, James Burton. I thought he would love it a whole lot more if it were rockabilly because he is credited with 'inventing' the 'chicken-pickin' guitar style. I could have a good guitarist on this song tear it up.
EDIT: And I have TONS of story songs that are not bouncy and free. PLENTY!
So, I dunno but for now, first version. Thanks to all!
As far as giving up, heck, I'm not giving up, that was just a funny. I might give up for a few hours but that's it!
------------------ Bill Yamaha PSR2000
[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-11-2005).]
_________________________
~ ~ ~ Bill
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#193585 - 08/11/05 11:38 PM
Re: Would someone listen to this recording? (Paging)
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Senior Member
Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
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