I have been following the user forum for some time for Korg PA-80 along with this site.
I realize a lot of
complaints exist on PA-80forum from some users especially about PA80's "editing features".

At this point, I am quite confused a little about these posts.
I wanted to ask you all, if you
could please tell me:

If I remember right one could
- Do step recording with PA-80,
- Save any sequenced song for later use.

Since I am not a keyboard player, I was totally counting on the PA-80's
ability to help me create my songs and work around its styles to tweak 'em the way I arrange my song.
I want to be able to record the song in step record mode, and than add the cords on top of the chosen styles (intro, main a, fill-b, main-c, ending, etc...), and finally be able to edit what needs to be edited (cords, muting of some timbers of the styles section, pan of some instruments of the styles section, etc...) and save it for later use. So I can play it back for critical recording by using its four audio outputs. And this configuration will form my base for the composition, than I can add my vocals and guitar parts along with some final touches (like some strings or pads or short melodic lines, etc...)

Am I wrong on any of these points?
Since after a long search and playing with PA-80, it is the keyboard that I choose to buy.
I would really appreciate your comments
on these issue.
If not, may be I should go back to consider buying the karma!... or any other arranger keyboard that would enable me to do all those I mentioned above.

Note: It is quite sad and unfortunate that there is no dealer in Houston, Texas (the fourth largest city in the US !) that would carry any one of the keyboard I could test drive? Unbelievable, I haven't been able to find one place that would carry VA-7, or PSR9000, or 9000PRO, or Kenton Solton SD1, or GEM SK760, or VA-5 or VA-3, or KN6000, or.....You name it. And the excuse is the same; "it is too expensive to carry one!"
Does any one know that a place exist in Texas that I could test-drive these machines?
PA-80 was the only one that I could play, and I just liked the sounds and styles of it.

Thank you all for any valuable info.

F Kara

You might check the Peavey dealer for GEM.
Haven't checked lately, but Brook Mayes in Dallas used to carry the top end Yamaha arrangers.
The Technics Regional Sales Rep lives in Texas. You can probably get his number from Technics (Panasonic), and ask him where to see one.
DopnM

Thank you Don for the repply.
I checked (again) with every possible dealer in Houston for any of the models mentioned here. They just don't seem to carry any of the models.
Even in the state of Texas, they just don't carry any in their stock. They can only special order.
I feel like I should get in to the bussines and open a store carrying full line of top of the line professional arranger keyboards, so that any interested musician could come in and play with any model they want.
It is not only unbelievable, but also very unfortunate to see such a case, yet a serious bussiness case that represents an opportubity!

I still welcome your suggestions to my questions for the PA-80. Any user yet?!

[This message has been edited by fkara (edited 08-27-2001).]

HI,

I do own a pa80 and like
the styles very much and the sounds are not bad either. If you want to talk about sequencing...I have to say it is far inferior to the i30 (I have) and the technics kn series ( I almost got).. especially if you want to be able to utilize its styles to make the song. There is a step record function in the pa80 but I can find no use of it. There is no control track or chord track where you can go back and do editing. If you made a mistake, you will have to start from the beginning. You can not go to a certain measure of a recoreded song and start recording either. If you want to disscuss more with me about this matter, feel free to e mail me.

Bee

Hi fkara,

I am (ex) Korgy in this forum and you should read my question i asked and the replies to Arbaz who seems to know the machine quite good.

My true feelings , even if i exchange my pa80 for a Yamaha psr9000.
I owned an arranger Korg I5S i used to play for 3 years and wanted to upgrade, so i stayed with Korg products.
The sounds are ok for me, pianos, synth, sax.. only the voices were down to me.
The styles play nicely and the variations are fine.
The ..price is good too !good value.

But;(in any kb there is a But)

A parasite noise: in the speakers you can't get rid of. (not a big problem, anyway)

The polyphony: wasn't big enough, cause when i played my chords on a style i could hear the sound of the Bass was a bit truncated.

Sequencer:
the problem that made me send it back as you can read on this forum.
An example to be clear: When i choose a style,and put the volumes level at say 80 for the Drums and Acc. tracks then start the sequencer and play my chords with the style, the style was played at maxi level(127)for those 2 tracks only and the pa80 can play loud , man.
Strange is the fact that it did tape at 80 level.

I did the same test on a psr9000 that was in the store and everything was fine; the seq. played the volume levels I CHOOSE.

Hope, this helps.
Yami

Dear Bee and Korgy:
Thank you for your responses.
And I appreciate your comments on the PA-80.
I will be more specific on what I really want to be able to do on the arranger keyboard.

This is for you Bee:

I want to be able to:
- first lay down the accompaniment tracks after I chose the style for my song.

For example: The whole song may be:

into1-main1-main2-fill-bridge-fill main4-ending1

Say I choose rock ballad with 4/4 measure.

I lay my accompaniment tracks (song template) for the whole song as I would do it on Yamaha QY700 step record mode.

Here is the template:

bar1 (4measure)---intro--using rock ballad intro1
bar2 (4measure)---intro--using rock ballad intro1
bar3 (4measure)---main1--using rock ballad main1
......
......
......
bar46 (4measure)---ending2-using rock ballad end2

And at this point, I should be able to go back and insert or delete any mistake I have done.

Then I add the chords manually in step mode for each bar or measure.

bar1 (4measure)---intro--Am
bar2 (2measure)---intro--Am
bar2 (2measure)---intro--Dm
bar3 (2measure)---main1--Em
bar3 (1measure)---main1--Cm
bar3 (1measure)---main1--Am
......
......
......
bar46 (4measure)---ending2-Cmaj

Again once I listen the recorded part, and if I don't like something, I want to go back and
change it or edit it.
In the mean time, I want to be able to mute, or unmute some accompaniment
tracks, or be able to change the panning or volume faders of some timbers (instruments).
And when I play back the sequence, it will play it back with the mutes, unmutes, and panning that I have done.

Once all done, I want to be able to route bass to one output, snare drum to one output, kick drum to one output, and hihat to one output (using total of four outputs) to record into a recording medium.
I will than go back and mute all the recorded ones and re-record the rest of the accompaniment tracks, rest of the drum kit, and whatever is remaining to the same recording medium in sequence.

All these may sound like extensive editing, but this is the simplest way for me to do it and the way I actually did it on QY700. But I just didn't like the sounds and the outdated styles of it, so I sold it.
I loved the sounds and the styles of PA80. I just wasn't sure that PA80 could really do what I need it to do.
I can not check any KN6XXX, or SD-X or GEM SK-X or GEM WK-X, or PSR9XXXX, because they just don't exist anywhere 1000 miles near to where I live.

I also talked with some people, and read the manual for version 2.01, yet there seems to be some confusing explanations as I could do one thing in BSQ mode , yet I should go back to song record mode to do some other things.
And that confused me.
Since you may understand what I try to do, you may please tell me if PA80 is capable of doing it or not.
Or if there is a way to do it, but I haven't realized it.
I mean what I ask is really not for too much should be the least expected from a professional arranger keyboard
I will also post this on the forum too.

Regards,

fkara

Hi,
Wow that's a lot of programing. And it's all in step record? or did I misunderstood you. I'm more of a "live"recorder so that won't work for me. But if you're gonna do it all in step recording then I think the pa 80 just might be able to pull it off. In step record, you can insert chords as well as your control ( intro, v1,v2, etc) anywhere...I think you can even insert different styles into one song ( like ballad in v1 and rock on v2). You can mute, pan, transpose, etc each track in the mixing page (while in song mode). You can assign tracks to one of four outputs as well. You can also convert what u just did into a standard midi file also. One thing I didn't understand was the following phrase:

I will than go back and mute all the recorded ones and re-record the rest of the accompaniment tracks, rest of the drum kit, and whatever is remaining to the same recording medium in sequence.

I dont understand why you would go back after you've finished the song and re record the rest of the accompaniment tracks (ones you just recorded)...do you mean the rest of the other parts besides the accompinement ( such as if you want to add another piano, or strings, or trumpet) . Because when you say accompaniments first thing that comes to mind is the style itself (drums, bass, acc1, acc2 , etc).

Other than that now, the melody part and any other parts besides the accompaniments, you can not record in step mode. So you'll need to do it in real time after you've finished all the step recordings. You will have only one track of melody or whatever you choose it to be in the bsq mode. If you want more drums or more strings and more piano, you'll have to switch to the regular sequencer mode by just pressing the song record button ( no saving, no loading neccesarry). ONce there you still are in the same song but it gives you more tracks and here you can do punch in punch out and more editing functions.

I hope this helps.....my problem with the pa80 is that I can't do live editing in the bsq mode, but I like the styles so much I'm willing to use cakewalk to do all the editing. This is a pretty long answer. I hope I didnt confuse you more. If I can be of more help, please email me.

Bee

Thanks again Bee;

I tried to email you but your email address does not work I believe bee…@att.net!
Anyway, you have relieved me a little. So it looks like, I can pull this off with PA-80.

What I meant by that statement is that:
I want to record the snare, kick drum and bass line of the accompaniment style each individually to separate channel in my recording medium.
Since snare, kick, bass, and percussion will allocate the all four available outputs individually, I will be muting the rest of the accompaniments (acc1, acc2, acc3, etc..) during the first pass.
I do that, because I will mix them later on Protools and automate the mixing. For example, I want to process different dynamics (EQ, comp) on the kick, or get the snare to the front during the guitar section solo section of the song.
That’s why I want to be able to record the each individual instrument of the accompaniment style to Protools separately.
Once I do that, I can then play any melody part where I see necessary (Thank god I can play that much keyboard). And if all I need to do is to transfer the song from step record mode to BSQ mode or song record mode, that is no problem at all, as long as I am able to preserve every setting that I put through the system.
If that is the case, PA-80 is my machine.
The units that I have played so far do not utilize the most recent software update.

You have been most helpful. I will keep watching your posts.

Best Regards,

F Kara
You can also email me at my email address

Note: Also special thanks to George Kaye for his helpful telephone conversation.

Last note,

You stated:
" And if all I need to do is to transfer the song from step record mode to BSQ mode or song record mode, that is no problem at all, as long as I am able to preserve every setting that I put through the system.
If that is the case, PA-80 is my machine."


Correction: step record is in BSQ mode.


Oh...I dumped att so now my email is beeyang20@hotmail.com

I hope you'll enjoy the pa80 as much as I am.

Bee

F Kara,
After we got off the phone today I called my friend at Korg USA to varify a few things. In Backing sequencer mode you can first input all the form of your song by selecting the variations and fills and styles in real time (without ever having to record a note or chord) and then you can enter your chords in step time either by using the buttons for time values and the screen for the actual chord types or if you would rather just scroll to the spot in the measure you would like to enter a chord and just play the chord using the keyboard keys, you can enter the chord at anypoint and it will play until you scroll through and input another chord. This way is very fast rather than having to put a value for each beat of the measure within the song.
As I mentioned on the phone, you can't record melody tracks in step time at this time, but perhaps another operating system update might let you do this.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California