Just switched from a fabulous '01 Windstar to a '04 Honda Odyssey. Huge sunken hole behind the third seat; can hold folded 3rd seat and give me a flat floor all the way up to the captain's chairs or keep it and put all the equipment in the hole - great. The new FreeStar is like that too now, but the prices were way too high for me when I needed to trade leases. Been driving vans since '76 - the Windstar was my first MV - love 'em.