Seems that the PA 80 has come up to bat with it's new 3.0 OS upgrade adding sampling plus more features also you can add a H.D. Fat 32 of as many gigs as you please no limit. So my question is what would the specialists here at synthZone have to say regarding the PSR 2000, PA 80, VA 7; since thay are all within a few hundred dollars of each other, what is the best board for what it offers. Is the VA 7 upgradable, am I comparing the PA 80 to the wrong boards? By the way if the Gem Genesis has gotten everyone excited, the Wersi Abacus has been out for a while and is way superior to the Genesis not to mention in my opinion the ultimate arranger keyboard. http://www.wersi.uk.com/abacus.htm Sorry got carried away, back to my original question. I would appreciate your opinions on these boards so I can make my purchase this week and join the Arranger entourage.

[This message has been edited by synthmeister (edited 01-23-2002).]

[This message has been edited by synthmeister (edited 01-26-2002).]

Synthmeister: I think you need to tell us what your 'specific' needs and wants in an arranger are. Are you going to be using it mainly for regular performance gigging, studio work, composition, or? What type (genre) of music do you play most? All the boards you listed are great boards but have strengths/weakness' in different areas. In order to better help guide you in your keyboard selection, please provide us with more information. - Scott

Lack of support? Hmm.. why? I never thought so, because Ketron seems to listen to his users, ask Roel for example.

On to the topic;
I do have a VA-7 myself and I am quite satisfied with it. What I don't like about it is the navigation, but if you have read some reviews then you must have noticed this already. I do like the sounds, drums etc. But these are all general things. So if you could be more specific what you're looking for, like Scott said, maybe we can help again.

Sander
The Netherlands

synthmeister ,
There is all kinds of support for SD1 on this forum ! Aj , myself and other users !
****************
You should buy the PSR2000 . It has a help screen right on board ! it's a good value !
IMO the SD1 is the best sounding arranger ( I work for Ketron ) . dano/ketronguy

I am super happy - crazy about my PSR2000. Download the Yamaha CVP209 styles and the PSR740 styles and the PSR9000 styles, and you have about 500 unique styles. Very easy to use. Great for computer sequencing and live performing. Lightning fast loading of floppy styles making it's lack of hard drive not a big problem.

The PSR2000 is more than a few hundred dollars less than the other two keyboards mentioned. If you get the PA80 with the optional harmonizer (The VA7 doesn't have a harmonizer option) you're going to spend a lot more.

I've often heard that the PA80 has the best voices, but many PA80 owner's have voiced frustrations over other issues. I would do a search at this site with the keyboard names. You will probably see that the PSR2000 owners are the happiest.

Larry

//The reason I am not adding other well qualified boards.. SD1, and others etc.. is because I would never purchase anything that lacks support and resources.\\

here is something I learned resently.85%of the smaller companes support their products very well more than the bigger companes.like the "access" virse Kb and the "claves" nord lead 2/3. also, ketron supports their products very well. for example,Scott asked ketron to improve and add some rootless chords thingy on the SD-1 and they did work on it and added it on their newest OS and Scott doesn't even own an Sd-1 "yet" !.M-audio(sound card company),they always updated their OS (I have delta-66 and it's perfect).their are many of them that I can't think of right now.about Roland. they have the crapest support you could ever think of.they never update or add new functions unless their sales goes down really bad.like the VA-7'S.they have the worst navigation system.Roland had to update to make it user friendly in life preformance. but other than that.you could screem on theri mail or in phone and they wouldn't do any thing.Korg is working hard.they don't put every thing for you but they work hard and I have to Admit they have a great support.Yamaha? well I had hard time once on fixing a PSR keybaord but they are fine.I dealt with almost all of this companes.and really learned that the big companes doesn't really care about you only unless their is more people that are siding with you.other than that,your one of the millions that buyes their products.

Dan01,
From what I've heard the ketron does have great sounds. What I ment was Ketron seems to have very little outside resources, for example how many sites can you find with info on Yamaha, Roland, Korg, many from experienced users, and many support sites from the Manufacturer. I did not mean to offend anyone, to each his own. I just asked for some help on which of the 3 would be my best bet. By the way I mentioned the Wersi Abacus, which is an arranger far superior to any arrangers discussed on this forum, but I wouldn't buy one do to the same reasons mentioned.

Scottyee,

Your absolutely right! I will be using it live, but will utilize it to compose, must have a good sequencer. I do not care if it's easy to operate at first boot, because it will be my first experience with a pro. arranger, which means I am willing to learn it's in & outs; as long as its not a screen to screen jumper to get at common functions. I would like it to have realistic sounds. The type of music is ballets-top 40, european latin, and dance. I appreciate your interest in helping me. By the way great NAMM pics.

Everyone has their own criteria. If low cost and light-weight are important and you do not need aftouch and expandability, the PSR-2000 is a good choice. If Variphrase is appealing, and vocal harmony and easy navigation are not, then the VA7 might be a good choice. If price is less important than expandability and you want vocal harmony, aftertouch (to emulate wind and stirng leads), and the ability to add user and additional factory sounds, the PA-80 is a good choice.

Synth, I have both the PSR 2k and the PA80, I know little about the VA7 but have spent a bit of time playing the previous Roland series boards, The EM 2000 and G1000. Those Roland boards had some very good sounds, ( I've always liked many of the Roland sounds..I must admit ), but like some others I found the OS and ease of use and navigation to be difficult, so maybe not that much has changed with the VA series in that respect. Still, I'd love to give a VA 7 a "test drive"...

In comparison the OS on the PA80 also had a steeper learning curve for me compared to the PSR2000. I would venture to say that for live playing, for me, the 2000 is more intuitive and easier to navigate, especially because some of the menu functions aren't quite as easy to navigate on the PA80, but a lot of that is because I have owned several Yamaha boards prior to the PSR2k and have a better grasp of Yamaha's way of doing things, while the PA80 is the first Korg arranger I have ever owned. After spending some quality time learning the OS of the PA80, and setting up the registration memories ( Performances in korgspeak ), I can now use it live almost as easily as I can the PSR2000.

Styles are excellent and sound very realistic to me on the PA80, but there are a few that are a bit rough in transition from variation to fill. Also a big minus for the PA80 is only 2 fills per styles, but many of the variations themselves are 8 bar loops, with ' mini ' fills within the variations themselves. Styles, along with the add on CVP styles, are improved on the 2000 from previous PSR models, but overall I still like the PA80 styles better.

For sounds, the PSR 2000 overall has some nice ones, but for my tastes, very few that stand out, with some minor editing capability. Pretty much what you hear out of the box is what you get. The PA80 has very good to excellent sounds in almost every category ( except unfortunately the Acoustic piano which I find to be a bit weak ), and pro workstation editing features, including access to the raw internal samples. In fact to me, the PA80 is almost as much a workstation as it is an arranger.

For live playing, practicing, or just hacking around I can use either, though as I said before, I might favor the 2000 slightly in a live setting for its ease of use, but for studio use or composing, I rarely even turn the 2000 on, that's how much better I like the PA80 sounds. The PA80 sounds also get at least equal billing if not more than my many sampled sounds for creating and recording.

The sequencers in both are rather good compared to previous arranger models. The 2000's has much better resolution ( 1920 ppq vs 384 for the PA80 ), but I actually find the PA80's to be easier to use and understand than the 2000s. Having said this, I still find it much easier to do any serious editing in an external sequencer program. Good external programs still offer a lot more flexibility and editing power than the internal sequencers of any board I've ever used. Not to mention that I find it a heck of a lot quicker and easier to access and edit particular notes on a piano roll screen with a mouse as opposed to using what amounts to an event screen on a synthesizer.

As always though Synthmeister, the best recommendation I can make to you is to gather in what you can from users, but most important, if at all possible, spend some quality time with each board that you are considering, because only you can determine what is going to ultimately sound and work right for you.

Cheers,
" Korg " AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-23-2002).]

Thanks Bluezplayer,

Doesn't the PA 80 have dual sequencers, up to 40 tracks. I have demo-ed the PSR 2000 and the PA 80 and also feel the PA 80 sounds are superior not to mention chord recognition. I have not demo-ed the VA series or the Technics 6500, or any ketron boards which I would like to, but they are not available anywhere near me. I demoed the 9000 Pro and no offense to anyone, but the 2000 sounds the same, the PA 80 has better sounds; sorry!
That is my opinion. Only time can give someone a true sense of comparison, but first impressions do count, and with sound your first impression is the one that counts, because if you own a board and play it day after day you learn to like the sounds and stand by it being the best sounding, the first time you hear 3 or 4 different boards is the only time your ears won't play favorites.

People, I have listened to PA80 styles, and I believe PSR740 has better ones. Just quick note.

Yes the PSR740 has good styles ! But the sequencer on the PSR2000 is better . Right PSR2k users ? dano

are styles on PSR2K better or the same as PSR740/PSR9Kpro? Because the styles on PSR9kPRO are almost identical to PSR740. But what about PSR2K?

No argument from me Synth. I agree the PA80 has better sounds...for my ears ( always subjective ). Yes the PA80 has dual sequencers, which I'm sure could be a great tool for someone who performs live. I rarely use both sequencers, but I'm not sorry that the capability is there.

Well SK880..the styles, like the sounds are subjective ..no doubt there, but after playing both boards side by side for a few months now, no comparison for my ears on the styles. PA80 wins handily on almost any genre I listen to. Some of the 2000 styles ( and particularly a few from the CVP209 ) are somewhat improved from the 740 that I had, for example the bass player actually plays more than one different note in a few of them... but for composing and recording, unmodified, out of the box..still not in the same class as the ones on the PA80..

Synth ..I disagree with you a bit on one thing. Only quality time spent and practical application with my boards has really given me an accurate feel for what I like and dislike about each of them. My first 3 or 4 times with the 2000 ( like almost any other decent board I first try out ) were magic..it was all new. Only after working with the 2 boards for a bit am I really able to distinguish accurately what I like and dislike about each.

There is so much though that can be done to alter individual tracks when midi editing and later recording to compensate on any board if the base sounds are ok to start with. Heck even some of the sounds get changed completely sometimes when I find a sampled sound that I prefer over one that's in one of my boards.. I always strive to get the best, most natural sound I can. Playing the instrument itself is actually the quickest and easiest thing for me in the whole process.

Dano...2000 sequencer is heads and shoulders better than the one on the 740...

" Korg " AJ

I was refering to the sound, when you first hear them your ears don't play favorites. I agree that only time well spent can determine which board will suit you.

[This message has been edited by synthmeister (edited 01-27-2002).]

blue,

I certainly owe PA80 another look. When I get the chance, I will do so. I remember, it had some good dance styles.

Don't take that personal Synth, nothing to do with being "new"..happens all the time...topics tend to evolve that way...it seems to be part of the process. Sometimes some of us drift away a bit ( or a lot ) and then we drift back. I know that am guilty at times, but I also know that discussing a board itself for me is only part of the picture..there is so much more that goes into the experience of playing or creating music for me...a board, whether it be an arranger workstation, sampler, or even another instrument ..such as my guitar, is merely a tool for painting my musical picture...Some tools just suit me better than others. I think that this forum in particular is the best vehicle that I have found for sharing info and learning stuff.

I DO understand the sound thing too..I knew right away I didnt like the PSR sounds as much as the ones on the PA80..but I saw some features that I liked and bought the board for it's assets in spite of some of its limitations.

SK.. I like the dance styles on the PA80 too...pretty cool stuff to start with and a lot I can do to modify the styles..its good synth sounds are a big help too


"Korg" AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-24-2002).]

Actually it wasn't ment for you Bluezplayer, but others. I appreciate your help. I was just a little upset that many members have or had the boards mentioned but didn't bother to give me a good insight. We'll I have decided that the PA-80 is the new bang for the buck in my opinion, and soon to be more peoples' if given a second look. The 3.0 upgrade, sampling, 2 inputs, 4 outputs, unlimited gig FAT 32 hard drive, dual sequencers, flash card, Event Edit, revised navigation on screen. Optional HD, guitar-harmonizer-effects, distortion etc..ALL THIS FOR ABOUT $250 MORE THAN PSR 2000 AND $800-$1300 LESS THAN 9000 PRO, VA 76, KETRON X1, SD1, TECHNICS KN6500. BANG FOR THE BUCK BY FAR HAS TO BE THE PA 80, so they had some operating system problems in the beginning, at least they responded with a kick butt attitude, and more updates to come, wonder what else they got in the works??

$250 more than a psr2k?----tell me where please! I find 2000s from $1100 to $1300 and pa80s from $1800 to $2000. This is the range of the big-box websites(USA)

That's right. At musiciansbuy.com, the PA80 goes for $2050.00 with the vocalizer, a vocalizer that isn't as good as the PSR2000's - and if you're performing live, you want that good vocal sound. You can get a PSR9000 for around $2050 (I've heard of less). You can get a PSR2000 for about $1050 - and perhaps get a 2 year warrantee thrown in. So we're talking about approximately a $1000 difference.
I'm a gigging musician. I normally have two gigs a day. When you practice for a gig and you use arranger keyboards, you can't really practice on another brand of keyboard - you have to have the right style, you might have to do some editing of registrations, styles, voices, etc. I own two PSR2000s that I got for $2100 including shipping and extended warranty. One stays in my car trunk and the other stays in my studio. If I want to practice for a gig, I just turn on the keyboard in my studio and start practicing. Perhaps I have to fetch my keyboard floppy files from my car to edit some styles or registrations.
If I had only $2100 I could buy one PA80, and I'd have about $50 left over. Then I would have to be shlepping a 35lb. keyboard out of the trunk and up and down the stairs - add the gig bag or case. If I came home for lunch and had 1 1/2 hours between gigs, I wouldn't even bother to get my keyboard unless it was an emergency.
If one of my PSR2000s breaks, I have the same exact keyboard to replace it. If my one PA80 broke, well I'd be in trouble unless I had a plan B.
The fact that the PSR2000 is in the PA80's league - and it is, makes it a best buy in my opinion. I was only able to look at a PA80 very briefly, so I can't make a truly informed opinion. But from what I have heard about each keyboard, it would be a difficult choice between the two only if they were the same price. I think the ease of use, better vocalizer, and access to the many stunning CVP209 styles would make me veer toward the Yamaha, but the PA80's superior voices and access to hard drive would make me pause - if the two were the same price.

Larry

I agree with Beaky, the price performance arranger still goes to Yamaha. I am still a Sam Ash visitor player, but I go there a lot till I am able to buy.
The Yamaha continues to impress me. Its like a grown up 740, which to me did not really make the grade. The 2000 finally does.
The PA-80 to me is a better board overall, but even at Sam Ash its almost double the cost with the Harmonizer. As a guitar player, the Yamaha approaches the PA-80 but at a much lower cost.
I still enjoy this forum so much, it really helped me to understand these arrangers, coming from th 6 string world its a great help.
thanks
thomas

I understand where your coming from Larry... From the standpoint of someone playing professionally for a paying crowd it makes perfect sense to me to have your backup be the same board. That to me is a very sound business decision. If just judging strictly from a performers point of view, I might even concede that the PSR2000 would appear to be in the same league for me if I were in your situation, but the reality is, as someone who owns and knows both boards very well and who uses the boards to play and create on, the PSR 2000 is in no way in the same league as the PA80 for me. There are reasons for the price gap between the two, but I can clearly see why many of those reasons might not be as important to some of the live performers. That certainly doesn't make the PSR2000 a bad board in my opinion. I think it's a great value at it's price. In fact I just recommended it over the PA80 to someone because of his particular needs.

I'm sorry Larry, please don't take this as me trying to be argumentive with you..it isn't meant to be that way at all. Rather it is a point of view from someone who owns and knows both well, and who mainly uses the boards in a different capacity than a dedicated performer would. In fact the only reason I even bought the 2000 was to replace my 740 for those occasional times that I play out live, but now that the OS on the PA80 is up to snuff, ( and I actually worked a little and learned the board ) I think that was money that could have been better spent. Still, I need a backup just in case and the PSR740 is long gone. I have set up and know both boards enough that I can go from one to the other in a live setting and probably not miss very much. I wouldn't wanna try that if I didn't know them well enough though. I agree with you on that one Larry.

Again though folks, I cannot stress it enough... even with sounds and so much else being subjective..these boards are NOT in the same league. Is there enough of a difference to justify the extra money ? For me, the answer is a resounding yes..for others it might be just the opposite.

Thomas,

I agree with you.. the PSR2000 is in so many ways a major improvement from the 740. Hard to believe even that they are so close in price for the differences in features.

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-26-2002).]

Well we need to search the net for the latest prices. Synth planet lists the PA 80 for $1248. That means it is about $250 more than the PSR 2000, yes you need to add a harmonizer $??, but still look at the difference in what you get. The PA 80 has 2 inputs which give you effects, no harmonizer, but you can add it. That is the difference; you can add to the PA 80 and
re-arrange the styles, a sampler, etc... what you get for $250 more makes the PA 80 the new bang for the buck. All other arrangers that are in the Pa 80's league are alot more money some thousands!!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by synthmeister:
[B]Well we need to search the net for the latest prices. Synth planet lists the PA 80 for $1248.

Please post the web site.

thx


bob

Synthplanet is in Europe. Questions:

1. How much is shipping to the US
2. How much is customs?
3. Is the warranty valid?
4. Is the impedance correct?

Bluezplayer, I am very slow to take offense. You could tell me that my PSR2000 is the equivalent of a Fischer Price toy, and I wouldn't care.

If you have thoroughly explored both keyboards and you think the PA80 is much better, then there must be some merit to what you're saying. On the other hand, there are other performing musicians on this forum who have tried both keyboards and use the PSR2000 for gigs. It sounds like the PA80 is clearly a better piece of gear for the recording studio.

Larry

1. How much is shipping to the US?
**About $86 dollars, even for smaller stuff
2. How much is customs?
** Nothing to US
3. Is the warranty valid?
** NO - US dealers will NOT honor the warrentee
4. Is the impedance correct?
** It was with my PA80.

Synth, I wish it were so ,but Synthplanet prices are not all that they seem. This is graymarket goods and you do have to figure in all the factors that Larry listed.
It is unfair to US dealers for Korg and others to sell cheaper to the Euro market..
That may not be your concern now,but could someday be a concern to all who enjoy their local music shop.
Profit is not optional! It is survival.

Back on topic! My suggestion is that you do not compare by price or specs, because that misses the main thing,which is the essential character of the keyboard.They have very different flavors.I do think that the PA80 is worth more that a PSR2k,but price should not be the main concern here. If you can love the Yamaha,be glad that you got a such a good value,but if the Korg is speaking your language than pay the price and have no regrets. Good luck and have fun.
Bill E

Synthmeister: I primarily use the PSR2000 for live gigging but I also think it includes all the features needed for composing too. The sounds on all three KBs (VA7, PA80 & PSR2000) are great but I personally favor the PSR2000 particularly for it's great 'live' sounding acoustic sounds (flutes,sax,pedal steel, guitars, etc). For some reason the 2000's seem to sound the most natural and realistic for 'my tastes'. The 2000's styles, though not necessarily as glitzy as some other arrangers, sound great overall and the fill ins transitions work especially well (smooth, no glitches). The PA80 has a great KORG like fresh synthy sound which is great for a more contemporary styles, but I prefer to emulate a more traditional acoustic sound. The VA7 sounds are great too, but I find its touch screen unacceptable as a live performer. I also found the PA80 rather awkward to navigate. I still prefer the Technics KN arranger's chord recognition cababilities over any other arranger (especially for playing jazz type piano changes in full keyboard mode), but the PSR2000 fits the bill for a player who doesn't really on the styles alone and PLAYS the keyboard LIVE as well. AFterall, the auto accomp parts should support your keyboard/vocal performance, not compete with it. I originally purchased the PSR2000 as a backup keyboard to my Technics KN5000, but it surprisingly has become my main board now, at least until I find out what the 'next' Technics keyboard (KN7000?) brings. Synthmeister: I hope this gives you some perspective (at least from where I come from) on all this. - Scott

PS: glad you enjoyed the NAMM pics.

There is only a shipping charge of around $100 more or less. I have one question why is the PSR 2000 at the same sight listed for about $1000. Am I not being fair in my comparison, just because Synthplanet is in Europe doesn't disclude it from a price comparison. The truth is the stores here in the U.S. don't sell arrangers like in Europe, "quantity wise" so they price them where they feel that the keyboard category fits, we are talking profit! Why would I as a store owner not charge $700 more for a KB that has a abundance of more features. If you walked into a store and looking for an inexpensive pro arranger and saw the PA 80 and the PSR 2000, compared specs. With the PA 80 costing less than $240 more; how many PSR 2000's would they sell? I'm not even sold on the PA 80 yet, although it seems to be the KB for me when comparing specs, price, and sounds; but we must not be blind to it's bang for the buck. I must mention again with the 3.0 upgrade adding sampling etc.. how can you not agree. I do agree that the PSR 2000 is a great KB but for a little more you get an arranger workstation. I would like to just say that everyone has been helpful and I narrowed my choices down to a PA 80 "obviously", Ketron SD1, Technics 6500. Although they were not in my original choices I have found more info on these boards and am trying to actually try one out. SORRY PSR 2000 fans but for a little more money these other boards offer a lot more.

It seems that Yamaha and Roland protect their US dealers and Korg,Ketron and perhaps Technics do not. With Technics,who knows, as most of their dealers really do have an obscene markup.Ketron has such a small US distribution that it is hard to tell.
I suspect that with Korg it is the US dealers who are the victims here. It is not your local dealer simply deciding to make a large profit that accounts for the difference between the pa80 and the psr2k here in the states. It is the difference in wholesale cost that US dealers pay more than Synthplanet pays for the same merchandise.I think that if you compare US prices that you will find that SD1,KN6500,etc. will cost close to 3x the psr2k. For that much, I would buy from Synthplanet and to hell with the warranty!
But if your real final cost is within say 25% or so, you may find that warranty and local support from a GOOD dealer is worth paying the difference. By the way,this is not an argument,I'm just trying to give you more of a complete picture. If you do buy from Synthplanet, please let us know how it turns out. I hope you love your new keyboard.
Bill E

No argument here Bill, just stating my personal opinion. I am considering the PA 80 but am also trying to demo the KN6500 and SD1 which I was a little negative toward at first. As soon as I can find a store that has them I will make up my mind. I thank you for your info, a warranty is worth thinking about if it's not valid on products purchased over seas. Do you know of any U.S. stores that charge a reasonable price.


[This message has been edited by synthmeister (edited 01-27-2002).]

I've had my PSR2K for about three months...and I love it! I have other professional boards by Korg, Yamaha, etc. but these PSR keyboards are fantastic for the songwriter/live performer with a home studio! You won't believe this, but for about a year I used two small PSR keyboards in my duo. I used one just for left hand styles and the other for full 32-note polyphony for the right hand. It was a great (and very lightweight and inexpensive) setup. I left my big boards home in the studio! This setup worked great for live performances except for one thing...the noise level. Since I had to use the phones output to the Mackie I had quite alot of hiss from the PSR's...but they still sounded great. So....I bought a 2000 and I can't say enought good things about it. The styles are great, it's quiet, the voices are great. I love the organ flutes! By hitting the variation button the Leslie speeds up or slows down in a very natural way. I know...I used to carry a B3 around with two stacked Leslies..and I had a mic on them. I haven't heard the PA-80. I like Korg stuff, but the 2K is so user friendly. I use it in my duo with a guitar man who plays sax. It's the perfect setup, and for the money I simply can't imagine a better keyboard for ANYBODY!!!

GIRAFFE554
in southern Minnesota

Hello everyone,
I need help. So, please someone try to find time to answer me. I recently bought keyboard Yamaha PSR-2000. This keyboard has vocal harmoniser built in. It works perfectly when I play live and sing. But vocal harmoniser doesn't work properly when I sing along with midi file song from floppy (in my keyboard).
Midi song simply doesn't give harmony information to vocal harmoniser I tried to do everything I knew but I didn't succeed. By the way I'm sort of beginner in this area.
So, please someone tell me what to do (how to set my keyboard).
Thanks !

I had PA-80 for 3 weeks and also had PSR-2000 for about the same time.

Let me tell you, the PA-80 operation is NOT intuitive. I got frustrated with it and decided not to buy it.

In contrast, PSR-2000 is sooo simple to use.

I have had many arrangers in the past but PA-80 is the worst. It just kills the fun after a while. Especially if you have to setup registrations to prepare for live performances.

However, the keyfeel on PSR-2000 is much worse compared to PA-80 although you can get used to it after a while.

I've found that the PA80 is like a dry wine or a fine scotch ..... it's an aquired taste. It's not an "out of the box" keyboard. You really need to understand this unit before you can control it. It's clearly aimed at a more technical approach than alot of other brands.
While I DO like simple, easy to understand operation - there is something to be said for deep, in depth, sofisticated editing and setup options.
The PA80 is not as user friendly as the home stuff, but I've found that after having almost ALL of the arrangers out there .... this one has enough for me to build on, and I learn more about it every day.
I've said before that they are ALL missing something "key" to happiness, and that's true. I'm forcing myself to avoid buying anything else till the compromises are minimalized.
The PA80 is lightweight, sounds great, and after you figure out how to "tame" it .... it performs like a true pro keyboard should. It's not for the weak at heart !

Well,
Here are my 2 cents,
I think the PA80 is the best choice here.
It has the best sounds and styles.
I've played the PSR-2000 and found it rather a disappointment, The styles sound a bit keyboardish and unrealistic, so do the sounds.
But every one has his own taste.
My personal favorite is the Ketron XD9, which has the best sounds and styles IMO.
I've compared it to the other two (PA-80 & PSR-2000), I think the XD9 is the best, the PA80 second, and the PSR-2000 third.
I've also heard the VA7 which sounds pretty impressive too.

Good luck & Greetz ,
Marcel

[This message has been edited by Wazza (edited 01-06-2003).]

From this old guy's perspective, the best thing you can do is sit down with the PA and PSR side by side, play them both, look at the bottom line, then decide which will best suit your needs. Personally, I own two PSR-2000s and two PSR-740s. I traveled down to Washington Music in Rockville, MD where they have a huge selection of keyboards, lots of brands and models, spent the better part of two hours there and ended up leaving with a 2000. If you're playing live, the sounds are excellent, especially the sax, grand piano, trumpet, flute and several guitar sounds. As for styles, there are hundreds of additional styles available at dozens of websites, many of which have been tuned to perfection. They can be quickly accessed from the floppy drive and virtually eliminate dead time between songs. If you the time, patience, skill and ability to tune the PA-80, it's a great sounding machine, but for the amount of money you'll spend, you can buy a pair of 2000s and have a few bucks left over. As for durability, I have just over 200 jobs on the 2000 and five times that many on the 740s, and knock on wood, never had a problem. Consequently, I don't know much about Yamaha's support, however, you can learn a lot from the individuals that frequent this forum. Guess the ball's in your court now!

Cheers,

Gary

If you're doing any Country/Western, the PA80 is really weak in the styles. It doesn't even have a basic Country Shuffle or Shoddish and not much of a CW Waltz. I had to make my own.
I also found that, while the styles in it are basically great, they are so individualized that if you use the same one very often, it becomes quite recognizable.
There are style available to load, but I couldn't seem to make them sound as good as the factory ones.
The PSR2000 styles are not as exciting and I guess more basic, but they are very useable in live situations, particularly if you can play the riffs and fills yourself.
My opinion is Ketron has the best sound and best "live" styles. I loved the X1 except for the fact that the fill and ending buttons were on the wrong side of the keyboard for my use.
I wish I could find an SD1 or Vega or XD9 to try out. The rep is supposed to be bringing one when he comes through, but so far no word.
I loved the PA80 until I did a few live jobs with it. Then it was love/hate. I loved the sounds and some of the features, but I missed the Vocal Harmony, fills, intros endings, breaks and overall user-friendliness of the PSRs.
DonM

Great discussion and a lot of excellent points. Speaking strictly from the point of view of manufacturer preference, I have had Korg, Roland, Technics and Yamaha boards over the last 20 years. In overall performance, ease of use, support and bang for the buck, I have become a dyed-in-the-wool Yamaha player.

I love my PSR 9000 but it is too heavy to take on gigs. The 740 is another favorite of mine, but having to go through the Function Key to get to numeric registrations was a bit time consuming on jobs. Having only 3 User Slots for styles for external styles was also a problem for me.

Those concerns vanished with the introduction of the 2000.

The 2000 has become my major working tool and is, without a doubt, the most practical board for my purposes...quick set up, good VH, intuitive and easy to navigate, quality sounds, lightweight, looks good, an excellent variety of styles and editing capabilities, loads discs super fast and lets me set up the next registration while playing the current one with minimal button pushes.

The only downsides (and minor at that) are the lack of User Memory (but it loads styles from discs very quickly) key feel (which I got used to) and the little extra effort I feel necessary to compensate for lack of professional quality construction.

But, overall, it is my board of choice and I have just ordered my second one for back up and use at home.

Eddie

Synthmeister,
If you are considering the Ketron SD-1 or KN6500 besides the PA80 you might want to explore some further options. Have you considered the Yamaha Tyros or the KN7000? Both of these boards have outstanding sounds plus they have more Polyphony. The SD-1, PA80 and KN6500 have 64 note polyphony while the Tyros and KN7000 have 128 note polyphony. If you find yourself doing complicated arrangements, with many layered sounds and Pads you may find yourself running out of polyphony when using a 64 note polyphony arranger. You would have a lot more "breathing" room when using a 128 note polyphony arranger.
PS: The reason I am mentioning the Tyros and KN7000 is because you said you were considering the SD-1 which costs around $3,000. Also the SD-1 and Tyros have NO inboard speakers so if you want a 'grab and go' board the KN7000 DOES have built-in speakers. Note: The Tyros does have optional external speakers that hook up to the keyboard but that's an extra expense and also makes it "less" portable. But the Tyros does weigh less than the KN7000.

Best regards,
Mike