OK Guys and Gal's
Here is my problem....

When I record my songs and ditties I have always monitored with headphones, basically because I am lazy and have never bothered to connect speakers to my pc.

I have never been happy with my vocal ability as many of you will know but have always considered it just about passable to demonstrate a song I have written or recorded.

That is until recently when I hooked up my Yamaha YST MS50 's that came with the 9000pro to the pc. There are two inputs so both the pro and pc can be connected at the same time.

I listened to most of the stuff I have recorded and to my absolute horror they sound AWFUL through the speakers.

Why is there such a difference? The headhones are nothing special...just a £30 technics stereo set. When heard through them my recordings sound gentle and the vocals are quite warm and like I say just about passable. Through the speakers the whole recording sounds hard and lifeless and the vocals are just chronic.

For a start I am really embarrased that anyone has heard such a cacophony when I thought they were hearing what I was hearing.

Any help would be appreciated both on how to monitor what I am recording and on recording vocals so as to get the best out of what limited ability I have.

As an aside, since being a child, I have watched the performances of Judy, Liza, Shirley Bassey, Freddy Mercury, Frank, Sammy Davis Jnr, Harry connick Jnr, Ella and many many more and have always been enthralled by the emotion and sheer energy they radiate when on stage. I have ALWAYS longed to be able to do just a little of what they do. When I sit down to play I can feel it inside and it is like I might burst.

It is SO FRUSTRATING that somewhere between this feeling and the delivery something goes terribly wrong! If sometimes I appear gushing over some of your performances then now you know why. I am so full of admiration for those of you with the talent to make performing seem so effortless (especially as I know that it is not effortless at all).

Many of you here inspire me to keep plodding on when ordinarily I would think ..what's the use. I listen to your MP3's and then think 'C'mon Tony boy that has got to be worth trying for'.

Now I have rambled on and said many things I diddn't intend to say and not said things I did intend to! Never mind it will soon be Christmas!
Very best wishes to you all
Tony W

Tony,
You are being too hard on yourself. I like your vocals.
But . . .NEVER mix through headphones. They do tend to make you sound really great. I guess they, especially the lower cost ones, have a built-in e.q. of some sort. It's kinda like singing in the shower.
Almost all my recording is done live. I simply record myself from the RCA outs of the PSR2000, or from the tape outs of my mixer. What I get on the recording is pretty much what it sounds like going through the speakers.
For home studio recording, there are many options, such as overdubbing the vocals, adding external processing and e.q.
Still, I'll bet you are being too critical of yourself. Nobody much likes the sound of their own voice--well maybe Uncle Dave --
It has taken me years to be able to tolerate my recordings of myself.
DonM

Tony,
Don is right here...the only value to headphones, even good ones is to hear placement in the mix and relative velocities etc. Once you hear that you NEED to switch to speakers to mix down. The sound difference is in fact incredible.

When I do my mixes, I actually go through 2 stages of speakers. My studio monitors, then a set of stereo speakers hooked up to my cd burner and there is quite a difference between those two as well. For the final mix though, I use the standard stereo speakers, because they are closer to what I feel most will be listening on. The studio monitors are better for dialing in beyond the headphones the placement in the mix of the different elements.
jam on,
Terry

I have mixed all of my tunes thru headphones.
Maybe that's why some of the vocals are a little low ?

But still having fun and jammin !

Dano
Ps. I have MSP5's and MAUDIO SP5B's .

Dan,
That certainly could be the reason for some of my comments about your mix and placement of things in it as well as the vocals, you mentioned.
Terry

Headphones create a false sense of space that doesn't exist. The reverb levels will be wrong, the bass response is off balance and the overall mix is not made with the "air" factor that is so critical for sound reproduction. Use the cans to do rough mixes, but the master has to be allowed to "breathe". Headphones are like playing in a vacume .... even the good ones give you the wrong impression.
They sure are complimentary though, huh?

You might invest in a good book on setting up a home studio. It sounds like neither your headphones OR speakers are reliable references. Studio monitors are designed to reproduce all frequencies within their range as evenly as possible. Once monitors are hooked up to your playback system, you should use a frequency analyzer and equalizer to compensate for room frequency response. Sometimes that's easy and sometimes it isn't. In the end you are aiming to create a monitoring system that will give you a near-flat "true" reference so that you can reliably gauge your recordings.

Also own at least one or two good Steely Dan albums and use these to tune your recording environment with. Steely Dan albums are known to be exceptional for sound quality - if you can get these albums to sound really good and even in your studio then chances are your own recordings mixed in this environment will sound decent.

Two other references - after getting your mix as right as possible in the studio - take a copy and play it in a car stereo and/or a cheap boom-box. Play it at normal volume and then barely-audible levels to see what sticks out the most. Again, use your Steely Dan albums for reference to see what should stick out at super-low-volume-level. This will tell you a lot about your recording environment.

I'm studying exactly that kind of facts at university here, in my country, so I think I can help a little bit...

Listening through headphones is called a binaural listening and not a stereo listening. So, if you hear a normal stereo CD through headphones you're always losing definition on stereo reproduction.
A stereo recording is meant to be reproduced through a stereo sound system, that's why all the mixs on the studios are made through near field monitoring.
Using a stereo sound system, there's the interaction between the sound reaching the left and right hear, but besides, using headphones that doesn't happen, creating a false sense of reality.

The monitors on a studio, or a even a home studio, should be like The Pro said: Studio monitors are designed to reproduce all frequencies within their range as evenly as possible.
When recording anything on a studio, remember that you have to get your hears used to your monitors, And always remember that the mix should be done not to sound perfect on those monitors but to sound average on every system. That's the difference betweem a good and a bad mix and that's why the studio technicians have to use this compromise on the final mix thinking about the results on a average system.
The pro, you're also right about playing the recording on the car, because as I said, the best mix is a mix that sound average on every sound system.

I think I answered the question...?

Luis Santos

I always mix thru my Tannoy Reveal monitors and when happy with what I hear I listen thru various sources including AKG studio headphones, cheap koss headphones, a boom box and a stereo system in my studio that used Polk bookshelf speakers with a Onkyo powered sub...a little over kill but my mixes don't suprise me when played outside of my studio....I agree that one should never mix thru headphones, always try to use reference monitors or at least if using bookshelf speakers make sure the speakers are not in a corner and that your ears are at the right position to catch all of the sound...A little trial and error will help a lot here.......

I agree that headphones are good just for the monitor reference, and when mixing down you should use speakers.. I used to do the same thing by using headphones to mix, and when I played it through better speakers I didn't really like it as much... Even a cheap pair of headphones can be misleading some times in terms of sound quality. They're nice to use, but I would suggest using regular speakers to do the mix..

Squeak

My $25 ear phones with a $39 CD player sound much better than my 15" Peavey TLS5's and my SxA100. There's just something about those things on your head over your ears. If I really want to try a keyboard out at the store I won't let then hornsnaggle me into trying it with ear-hones. My $350 yamaha PSR way back in the 80's maybe a psr70 sounds good with ear-phones.
Boo

Hello Everyone,
Thanks for your input and advice it is much appreciated.

After writing this post I went to bed and woke up the next morning with flu

I will respond properly when I feel human again, but for the moment please accept my apologies for asking for advice and being so tardy in replying.

Speak to you all soon (sniff sniffle sniff)
Tony W

Hi everyone,
I am getting over my flu (thankfully) and just wanted to thank you all properly for your input.

I think I need to invest in some decent speakers first off. Initially I was quite impressed with the MS50's that came with the pro but I just cannot seem to get a decent sound out of them.

At least I now know that headphones are a no no. As UD said they are way too complimentary.

Anyway many thanks again.
Best to you all
Tony
BTW As per advice have put a Steely Dan album on my Christmas list....the other half said "Who is Steely Dan?"

Tony,
the mind behind Steely Dan is a guy called Donald Fagen, who later left the group and pursued his own career as a solist. His album "The night fly" is still considered a reference to test an hi-fi system; he is a real maniac about sound quality; I once read an interview where he said that he hated synthesizers (all of them) because they are never in pitch, meaning that even when a sound is in pitch in one octave, it goes out of pitch in the other octaves (lower or higher). That's why in his record you can usually hear only acoustic instruments or the Rhodes piano, where you have to tune each note individually.

But Donald Fagen did use the Yamaha DX-7 on a number of Steely Dan tracks despite his well publicized views on synthesizer tuning. I know my earliest synth memories were of a MiniMoog synth that always went out of tune as you changed the octave tuning on an oscillator. Sequential Circuits Prophets despite their auto tune facility always sounded out of tune to me also.