Guys and gals, it appears the new MM6 (A.K.A. The Mini-Mo) could possibly have "arranger" capabilites. Check out the specs and have a good "hard look" at the pattern control to the left of the keyboard (inlarge the pic, it's very easy to see).

The specs also state:

Play the Keyboard Along with a Pattern
The patterns in the MM6 were created to give you a wide range of different musical genres simply by playing back the pattern tracks. Moreover, you can easily record chord changes to both the patterns and your real time keyboard performance in the Song mode.

-------------------------------------------

It only makes sense too considering the MM6 has many similiar features to the PSR line. The control knobs (from what I can see) seem to be from the DJX series.

My main concern however is the POLY. If this is a Motif (classic) based sound engine, taking that into use along with the arps and controller functions such as the sustain pedal will eat the poly faster than a rabid monkey on a cupcake!

There were many complaints about the original Motif Classics limited poly, and I can't see the poly not bottoming out after just a few tracks or chords on this unit. However, this may be an affordable way for some of you to get into a basic synth. Sadly I don't see any place to store user voices either.

Based on the specs It also is bundled with DAW Software. Not sure which program it is though.
http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_euro...0_MM/index.html

squeak - .... I've never seen that ... is that fast ?!?!? ....
t.

Hello squeak_D!

The new arranger form Yamaha is PSR-S500. The MM6 is surely little brother of MO6 and is classified as the worstation. It has no styles like arranger keyboards used to have.

You guys have GOT to learn how to embed those long URL's to make these posts easier to read. Especially older forum members like you Squeak. It's not hard... please take a minute and read the link next to the reply box that says "UBB Code is ON" for instructions. Thanks...

You have to read deeper into the specs though. If you look at the pic and have a closer look at the pattern control you'll see (4) variations per pattern, and you'll see a two buttons (fingered, and auto fill)

Looks like another winner.

No monkeying around with this one.

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

doesnt the new XS also have "arranger like " features ?

Im telling ya, the FINGERED button and Auto Sync button, and Auto Fill button are dead give-aways.. Those are "arranger" features.

http://tinyurl.com./

Glad to see that Yamaha is finally making a keyboard the size of a Korg X50. I have an X5D and find the size and power of the Korg almost perfect. Now if the MM6 has anything like an arranger, I might soon be looking into that. I don't need or use half the stuff on my PSR2000, so a basic arranger might just do the trick.

I think that Esh is referring to this:

NEW! You can now have true hyperlinks using the [url= code.

It is very easy to use. Read more [url=http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/ubbcode.html]here] code.

It is very easy to use. Read more [url=http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/ubbcode.html]here[/url] .

Kind regards,
Tommy


[This message has been edited by TommyF (edited 01-11-2007).]

Here's yet another clip of text (this time taken from) Yamahasynth.com that shows the MM6 having arranger capabilities just might be true.

---------------------------------------------
The MM6 Music Synthesizer delivers all that power and more. Drawing on the same sounds of the popular pro-level MOTIF series instruments, the MM6 has a wide variety of dynamic, realistic and just plain powerful Voices to help you create amazing music. The MM6 also gives you total control over your sound, with real-time tweakable knobs, and features special Patterns that provide full backing - drums, bass and chords - for your live performance and song creation. And since the MM6 is exceptionally light and portable, you can bring it anywhere and everywhere your music takes you
--------------------------------------------

Notice is says "special patterns", and they used the term "full backing". I think that along with pattern controls also support this.

I think people here should be excited about this if it's true. A Yamaha keyboard with Motif based sound engine, real-time control, 200+ arps, 8 track sequencer, and the possibility of arranger control....

Nice features but no where near the PSR-3000's full arranger features.

Certainly not one I would consider.

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

I read it has only 32 voice poly.

Bummer huh

Commmmooooonnnn......Psr S-900

You can't expect it to be up there with the PSR-3000. Be reasonable now. The MM6 is expected to hit the streets at only $600.00 I do feel that 32 note poly is a HUGE limitation considering the ROM is based on the Motif Classic. Plus I see no room for user sounds, and the knobs seem to be the same cheap knobs from the DJX series (which the "center stop" positions wore out really fast). If there is no room for user sounds and the knobs are the same than I can only assume there is no "visual reference" on the screen itself, rather one would rely on the physical position of the knob.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-11-2007).]

It would be very, VERY interesting to compare the sound quality of a MM6 (L/R output, 70MB ROM) against PSR S500 (only phones output, ?MB ROM)
I hope someone of you will do such test

George

The "Patterns" are what the Yamaha means by phrases. The new S500 and MM6 keyboards feature 9-track sequencers where 8 tracks are for events and 9th tracks is for chords. I guess composing using these phrases will give you also harmony progressions and what it is called "full backing".

The tweakable knobs are used in Roland's Juno-D and Juno-G models for changing patch ADSR envelope, tone balance and LFO filter. I guess Yamaha does the same. I still think MM6 is low-end workstation, not the arranger. And as PSR-S500 already is the new low-end arranger, it doesn't make sense to market two low-end arrangers at the same time. Or does it?

What you're missing is that the MM6 is stated as having an "easy chord function". I'm well aware of Yammies use of "phrases". This type of setup is used in the the Yamaha QY series for example.

I know the Juno series well too. Actually I know synths in general well. The reason I say "arranger" is because the MM6 has a button under the pattern control for "Fingered" which I would assume utilizes the "easy chord feature". It also has other arranger feature related buttons too.

Also take note that the text says "full backing" for "live" performance as well. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Yammie has the S-500 as the lower end arranger and also made another geared towards the synth line as well.

"I think people here should be excited about this if it's true"
Your absolutley right. It is a step in the right direction. Why not manufacture a complete package, workstaion/synth/arranger.
This would make everyone happy. Synth types would no longer look down on arranger. Arrangers would stop being marketed for us old people.
Retailers would start pushing them onto young people, etc.

That's also my point I'm trying to make I guess. Yammie may have decided "not" to call these "Styles" inside the MM6--rather refer to them as patterns to also appeal to the synth junkies (me being one) as well.

There are synth players that don't know squat about styles. They're used to the term "Patterns". So Yammie may have kept the term "pattern" as this is board is part of the Motif line.

How else could "easy chord feature" and a "fingered button" be mis-understood?

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-11-2007).]

don't want to burst any bubbles here, but i suspect that yamaha are providing the same four arpeggiators that are going to be on the new XS line...(there is only a single one on the ES)...what these do is play arpeggio patterns that either come with the unit or are programmed by the user,its not clear yet whether the mini mo will allow user edits of arps...if they are anything like the arps in the current line they are good, but can be fiddly to change from one arp to the next, and in the 1700 odd arps that came with my ES there are NO intros or endings.... all the arps are simply repeating patterns...BUT who knows maybe yamaha have added some chord recognition as well...all will be revealed at NAMM i guess....6 days to go...i also imagine they will be announcing the PSR S-900 as well, which is supposed to be to the tyros 2, what the psr3000 was to the tyros...anyhoo
cya
dennis

The mini-mo and the PSRS-500 have been shipped to me. I will have them both in a couple of days and then report on them.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I have a strong suspicion you're right on the money about the Mini-Mo, Dennis.

Also, rumors of a prototype PSR-S900 being at the show are abound.

Time will tell...

Ian



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Remember to leave good news alone.

Hey, they spelled their name backwards too

Rather than say anything else on this I'll just let Yamaha's reply to my question (on the Motif Forum) regarding the MM6 and arranger features say it all.

Posted by Yamaha Rep at Motif Forum
---------------------------------------------
The MM6 is pretty unique. It actually uses a lot of the technology from arrangers and is built in the same factory as our portable keyboards.

But the OS, sound content, drum patterns and grooves were done by the same team that does the Motifs.

So sound wise it has the Piano from the original Motif, the acoustic guitars ( and arps) from the ES, the sweet flute, etc.
There are plnety of the cooler synth sounds , too.

Also there are grooves with full backing parts, bass and drums and just drums. No polkas though, just hip hop, r and b, electronic and pop stuff.

It's kind of a new idea, but we think people are going to like it a lot.
---------------------------------------------

Well there ya have it. The first sentence of his reply sums it up.

Looks like another winner for Yamaha.

Ian

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If it had had 64 poly and I might have got interested in it.


George



[This message has been edited by George V (edited 01-12-2007).]

Blowing the poly on a Motif Classic based sound engine with only 32 note poly won't be very hard. Just a few tracks and BAM!!! you'll max out.

I think Yammie is heading in the right direction but it's just odd to create this board then shoot themselves in the foot in regards to potential sales with the poly. This issue of poly with the MM6 is the main thing brought up on the Motif forum too.

Plus why even give it synth editing if you can't save user sounds? I don't see a "user" category on voice selection. There's another Yammie synth out called the S-03. It's not based on the Motif, but has 64 note poly, 4 element voice structure with synth editing, and room for user voices. It too is bundled with recording software. This model sells for $499--which is less than the street price of the MM6.

I wonder if Yammie will discontiue the S-03 now as they'll possibly lose sales to the MM-6 and find customes going for the S-03 instead because of increased poly, and a more "TRUE" synth engine.

Still looks like a winner to me...great features, and a great price.

Most people store their sounds on their PC via USB.

Ian

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That's not true Ian. Most synth players like to have their sounds stored (in their synth). We use the computer (if our synths have voice editor software) for backup.

The MM6 doesn't appear to have room for user sounds (within the unit), and having to use a computer would "totally" defeat the portability issue for this synth. Even if one was to use a software application for editing the internal Rom, it's pointless really because you can't unplug the synth and take those "user sounds" with you.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-12-2007).]

I take it that you aren't going to buy one?

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

Nope! With 32 note poly, no room for user sounds.... No winner in my book. A synth that in todays market that doesn't let you store your user sounds is pointless IMO. Then to top that off by choking the unit on 32 note poly with a synth engine based on another synth that also choked on it's limited 62 note poly.... I'll pass.

That's why I no longer own the MO-8. ES based sound engine that was choking on 64 note poly. Blowing the poly on that took no effort.




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-12-2007).]

Do you still have your Roland synth?

How many notes poly does it have?

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

Yes I do and glad you asked! I still have my Roland RS-70 that has 64 note poly. Note drops aren't a big issue with the RS-70 because the RS-70 (like the Korg TR) for example have 2 element voice engines. A two element voice engine with 64 note poly is good. Now there are those "few" voices on the RS-70 that "are not" designed for use in a mix (the manual even states this) because the poly count per note is quite large. Some of the RS's voices can use I think up to 8 notes. Those sound are for live use.

Now 64 voices with a 4 element structure that is what's found on the MO-8 is just bad: Once you start to sequence, then add the arps, and use of sustain pedal into that mix and BOOM! Poly is GONE WITH THE WIND my friend.

Now Roland has one GREAT feature that I have been after Yammie about for years. Roland has a feature called "Voice Reserve". In a mix you can manually set the poly limit of each track/part to avoid note drops.

The RS-70 seems to be the ideal keyboard for you.

The last Roland synth I had(excluding arrangers) was a Jupiter-8, which I sold several years ago.

No Midi(although there was a retrofit available)no velocity, after-touch, and only 8 note poly at max, but it had a sound that the newer synths can only dream about.

It had a terrific arpeggiator as well, although a bit basic by today's standards.

Roland always did the the synth thingy in great style.

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

Roland has always been my synth of choice. I have however owned numerous Yamaha nad Korg synths over the years too. Till this day I miss (two) of those synths and they are the Yamaha DX-7 and Korg M1. The DX-7 was an FM beast! I also miss a couple of the old Juno's too

The DX-7 was cool.

I had a Mark 1 and was a little frustrated with the MIDI which was limited.

I ended up with a Mark II with the Grey Matter E! chip installed which improved the already great MIDI specs, and also added a sequencer and multitimbral capability.

The Korg M1 was nice, and I did play a Wavestation for several months, which was way cool.

Worst synth I had, was a Polymoog...great sound but totally unreliable.

When I got out of the recording thing, I bought a PSR-8000 with enhanced sampling memory and sold all the old gear, but not before sampling the sounds I used the most.

Now all I need is the PSR-3000.

Ian


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Anyone want to buy my PSR2000? Make an offer for this clean instrument.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 01-12-2007).]

I just spoke with the product manager for Yamaha and got some answers about the MM6.
Yes, you can play fingered chords and trigger up to 8 style tracks. And , if you like, you can record these chord changes and record these 8 tracks and in addition, one more track can be added (melody). The styles are preset and you would play in the split mode to play the chord changes in the left hand. Now, I can't wait for mine to arrive!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

There ya have it. The Yamaha MM6-"The Synth/Arranger". Keep up posted on your thoughts George. I imagine the sounds are going to be pretty good (considering where they came from)

I still say Yamaha chose not to call them styles as the MM6 is part of the Motif line, and with synths the term "patterns" is used. So it makes sense for them to keep that term as not to confuse synth players who don't really know much about styles.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-12-2007).]

Wow! That is going to be one COOL keyboard.

You were pretty darn close with your guesstimates, Squeak.

I'm going to have a great time demoing this one...can't wait to get one on my Yamaha sample account.

Ian the Pleased

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Remember to leave good news alone.

hmmm...well im just a natural born cynic when it comes to manufacturers "spin" i will have to wait and see for myself, or when its released at namm, it just sounds "too good to be true",
i for one would be delighted if all of this is ACTUALLY what you get, and i will buy one the day its released here (poly does not matter as i would MIDI it out to the S90ES)..... you can play and trigger "chord" patterns now with the current motif es arp(albeit only one at a time), and all of a sudden being able to trigger eight plus intros/endings etc, and all on a budget keyboard...as i said i am not yet convinced...please forgive my skepticism
dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 01-12-2007).]

Just got a bit more information. You can split the keyboard say with a bass on the left hand......Piano on right hand........play a bass line in the left hand and the style will follow your bass line! Now that sounds pretty cool. I hope it will be easy to figure this out when it comes before the NAMM show.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Miden,

Even if you Midi the MM6 to an S90ES you're still going to be dealing with 32 note poly. The S90ES will just be a controller thus turning the MM6 into the tone generator.

It does appear to be the start of something that several of us have been talking about for a while - the synthesis of arranger AND workstation features, with an emphasis on contemporary urban styles.

I guess that Yamaha, after messing up on the perfectly good concept of the DJX, want to test the waters again for an inexpensive keyboard that makes performing hiphop and rap as easy as we find sambas! Perhaps, if the market reacts favorably, we might see a 'trickle-up' of the concept, as most modern high-end arrangers are woefully short of features and soundsets appropriate to urban music.

But...... I am sure, as we delve deeper into it's OS, we are going to realize that many of the features that we take for granted (extensive chord recognition, for instance, along with bass inversions) will have little use in urban music, and only the younger (at least at heart!) of us will find this of any use.....

I think Yamaha made a mistake by calling it the Mini-Mo. Yammie should have called this new model The DJX-Pro, or something else with the DJX tag to it.

Advertising it as a DJX with Motif Classic sounds would have IMO really caught the attention of buyers considering how well the orginal Yamaha DJX did. Hell even today the original DJX's patterns exceed the modern styles on current arrangers.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-12-2007).]

Amen, squeak......

Maybe the final convergence is not too far off...... 'One keyboard to rule them all and in the darkness bind them'......

I agree that using the DJX name would make a positive impact in this confusing product line........

The display looks like an Arranger(DGX-series), the buttons of Workstation...

Anyone know if it has intro/ending capabilities?

squeak, sorry but i believe you are wrong there...most of these keyboards can actually send out the arp/arranger info via the midi out..they usually have a software RX/TX midi data somewhere in the system menus... in effect all the minimo would be used for would be generating the patterns, none of the voices, and whislt the s90es would be used as the controlling keyboard the ES sound engine would also be used (128 note poly) so poly is not an issue....that is of course unless yamaha make it deliberately not available to the midi out..
cheers

Here's another reply from one of the big-dogs of the Motif Forum. Someone who has even put their hands on the MM6 too.

---------------------------------------------
Having spent quite a lot of time playing the MM6 I have to report that the polyphony is a bit of mystery. 32-voice would seem to be on the light side. However, despite playing layerered sounds using clustered chords on top of fairly dense Performance backings, nothing chokes and it all sounds great.

To echo YamahaUS's comment about this being a different and new type of animal. It really is. It has the sonic heft of a Motif but with instant gratification features of beats, arps, and (pretty darned sophisticated) chord recognition. It's one of those instruments you just can't help but 'keep on playing.'
---------------------------------------------

Maybe so, but I know nothing about the DJX. The Motif name and sound generation is what appeals to me.

Good thing about it is you'll have a KB with USB to device for instant midifile playback,USB controller with mod wheel,sustain and exp pedal,4 knobs and motif classic sounds.Good deal to me. Keys will still suck like Mo line.But it's 5 Kg(14 lbs)-great for it's features.

[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 01-13-2007).]

The DJX's Modern styles were killers, and were easily much better than most other arrangers...problem was the chord recognition was limited.

I hope this is improved on the MM6.

Ian


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Here is the demo site > http://www.yamahasynth.com/demos/index.html

Impuls/Soryt.

Unfortunately, I was not able to download the demo MP3. It seems that the MP3 are missing.

Thanks for the link anyway

George

i have just gone thru the info provided on the MM6 at the yamahasynth site and i may have to eat my words, it does seem to offer all that it says it does...i will seriously consider placing an order for one , AFTER i can hear some demos...i guess yamahasynth won't post the demos until NAMM has started???
certainly looks the business though!!
dennis

can you load styles in this thing? You know like the styles we all have from other arrangers.

yes, very cool for its time..nothing like it. BUT..
it sounded very out of tune for most sounds when you got
below or above the 3 g-g middle octaves. i was strictly
a sax player/singer then,( had a dx7 as a home toy) guys
were bring dx-7 to gigs and I told them: leave it home,
please-- you can't play on my gig w/that out-of tune ax.



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Miami Mo

I wish I hadn't sold my DX-7...it would have been worth holding on to just to watch the horn players trying to tune up to it.

Ian

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The sax is not a member of the horn but the woodwind family.

You are correct Taike.

Ian




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Remember to leave good news alone.

It would also be interesting if the styles from the MM6 would load into the Tyros1/2 or PSR-3000.

That would be cool!

Ian



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