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#125972 - 12/17/01 07:33 PM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
sk880user Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 1255
Loc: United States
If you can wait a month or so, I strongly urge you to consider the new GEM keyboard Genesis

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#125973 - 12/18/01 08:35 AM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
Mario Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/99
Posts: 380
Loc: Wayside, New jersey, USA
All this discussion only shows how pasionate we all are about our arranger K/boards. I've spent the last 5 days getting familiar with my new PSR2000 and one thing it excells on it's how "seamless" and fast it does what you tell it to do. Sounds I give it a B+ (I am terribly spoild by the X1), saving registrations I give it a C- since after 5 days of trying to figure it out, I still don't have the complete picture but I am not giving up and won't mind spending the time as long as the features are there. I think this machine is worth keeping for a few years. Sorry I went off the subject as well.
Happy Holidays
Mario
_________________________
"Music should be heard, not felt. Protect your hearing"
Take a listen to some clips of my latest CD album. Thanks!
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#125974 - 12/20/01 01:08 PM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
Mike H Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/99
Posts: 161
Loc: Homer AK
George Kaye

You mentioned a few other categories that you did not rate the kb's on - such as user friendliness, styles, - do you have a rating for these or other categories you think are important for those kb's and where does the kn6500 technics fit into things?

MH

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#125975 - 12/20/01 09:19 PM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3293
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Mike,
Other catagories would be sequencer abilities, button layout , digital effects processor power, rear jack outputs and inputs, etc.
I would rate the SD1 very low in the button pushing department after getting used to the X1 for example. I don't like where Solton has put the buttons on the SD1. My opinion for fast calling up of midi files and tweaking the sounds of midi files has always made me choose the Solton products over anyone elses. After using all the other models in my store, I would still favor these products for how fast and easy you can call up, play and change things quickly on the fly and then just push one button to store these changes. I would rate the Generalmusic WK6 and WK8 as having the most complete 32 track sequencers of any of the best arranger or pro keyboards. There sequencer offers a great screen, all types of record options and microscope edit functions.
I like the number and the quality of the effects processors best on the Yamaha keyboards over all the others. I love that the effects are stored with the sound and that when you change to any sound, the effects move with them. I dislike the multieffect the most on the Roland VA products because Roland didn't use very smart choices in their preset sounds. However, when I turn this effect off manually, I like not using the master effect completely and then the sounds sound much more realistic in the brass and woodwind catagorys. I can also pick one effect in this mode and just adjust the amount I want to use with all the sounds rather than having the multi change with each new sound I call up.
I really like the styles in the PA80 Korg but I don't love the way their files are handled in the hard drive directories. I get a little confused when selecting, opening, loading and closing directories. Being a Mac person and not a PC person, I find this less user friendly.
I love using the Roland touch screen but I wish there were dedicated buttons for selecting on and off of the 4 parts on the VA7 without having to use the touch screen.
As you can see, my list of favorites change within the catagorys that I am evaluating for different reasons. One day I love the features or sounds of one keyboard, and the next time I'm demoing a different keyboard in my store I really like the features of another.
You know, just today I receive a phone call from a customer in San Fransicso who bought an X1oriental keyboard from me a few days ago. He was like a kid in a toy store.....he just loved his new keyboard. He had never played or tried an X1 but heard from friends and through internet discussions how great this product is. Did he know this product had been available for over 2 years now? Not until he called me. Did he think this was a dated keyboard? Not at all and I played some of the styles for him over the phone....I showed him my knowledge and how much joy he'd get from owning a keyboard like this and he is thrilled. Had he asked me my opinion on the Yamaha 9000 pro or the PA80, he would have gotten an equally exited demonstation and overview from me. Every keyboard is a winner out there. Some are just better doing certain things for some people over others.
It's why i love what I do so much! Keep those new models coming all you manufactures so I can get my hands on them and give you all my impressions and reports. If all I had coming in were Motifs, Tritons, Fantoms, etc. I'd probably want to retire at 51 years of age!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#125976 - 12/21/01 05:20 AM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1645
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
51 years!!!, You type like its only been 50..

Side question, where there electronics 51 years ago? Just kidding,

You nailed those keyboards right on. You should consult for a manufacture.
_________________________
www.AudioworksCT.com

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#125977 - 12/21/01 10:33 AM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
Mike H Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/99
Posts: 161
Loc: Homer AK
George -
Thanks ever so much for sharing a perspective on why different functional characteristics of the manufacturers makes it impossible to have a one shoe fits all approach to these kb's. For myself and what I have seen of GEM - WK products -I like their sequencing enough to wait the release of Genesys to see if their sounds are going to be improved. For my music - the intertwining of sequenced rubato sections and full on live arranger sections during one song is important. I am trying to rate my arranger choice on the following:
1. ease of live use (variation, fill,)
2. ease of toggling between song and style
3. quick access to song data base
4. weight around 30 pounds
5. lushness and fullness of strings and pads
6. sequencer simplicity
7. wide variety of jazz percussion styles
8. video out/notation software interface

thanks for sharing
Mike H

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#125978 - 12/21/01 08:09 PM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
Arthur R. Jacobs Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 130
Loc: Alma, Michigan, 48801 USA
George: You didn't answer the question of where does the KN-6500 fit in. I know you are not a dealor, and that is a crying shame. We all know what a great person and salesman you are. I suspect you feel the Technics is to high priced or maybe you can't get together with Panasonic. In any event, I would love to here you critic a KN-6500 after you knew as much about it, as you surely do on the products you do carry. ARJ
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ARJ

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#125979 - 12/21/01 09:01 PM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3293
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Arthur,
Last year at the NAMM show I visited the Technics booth and sat down and played the KN6500 for over an hour. My impression was much the same as when I played the 5000. I was disappointed with the drum samples as I have always been with technics products and thought the sounds were only fair when it came to brass, saxophones and strings. As to the look of the keyboard it was very good looking but so are many other new keyboards.
As I have often mentioned, my biggest disappointment with technics is within the organization. I don't feel like they do their products justice. Very poor technical support, demanding high prices from their dealer network and an attidtude (which I see at every NAMM show I've attended the past several years) of not really being interested in what they are offering to the music industry. It's as if a staff of Japaneese engineers design this keyboard and then the US team goes and destroys their hard work by not promoting it in a professional way.
This is my take on Technics and why I would not choose to display or sell their keyboards. Even if the next generation keyboards were the best sounding keyboards, I would not consider them in my store unless the company really could convince me they were running their business differently than I now know them as.
By the way, I have always had a similar feeling towards Casio and this past year I decided to give them a chance to show me they've changed. The Rep out here in California happens to be a friend from the industry for many years and I thought "what the heck, I'll give Casio another try". I bought 6 WK1630's and 6 WK1800's because I really think these keyboards have a lot to offer, but, it took almost 2 months to receive my first order and almost 6 months to receive my second. I really have to think long and hard if I want to represent a company like this again.
When I deal with Yamaha, I have the support of a huge company with many friends working to keep me and my customers happy. When I deal with Solton, I have Lou in New York who would do anything to help me out and he has done exactly this time and time again. Korg has a product specialist who I can call on any day and he's either right there or calls me back within the day. Roland, the same thing and Generalmusic, I can call the national sales manager who is also an expert on their products or Chris Anthony who makes the styles and sounds that go into their products and discuss anything i need to within a moments call. This is what I think is missing from Technics and from Casio. They could and should change but I haven't seen any sign of this recently and I don't expect things to change the way they seem to be going.
This was a long answer to your question of how I feel toward the KN6500 and I hope I have expressed myself clearly.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#125980 - 12/22/01 04:29 PM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
Arthur R. Jacobs Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 130
Loc: Alma, Michigan, 48801 USA
George Kaye: Thank you Sir for a very honest and sincere answer, you are a credit to your chosen profession. Isn't is amazing
the many controdictions we have to cope with on our journey through life. Example of my
meaning: I have a wonderful sincere and very
large dealor in Grand Rapids, Mich. They handle both Yamaha and Tecknics keyboards.
If he told his experiences dealing with Yamaha to this Forum, it would sound like George Kaye in reverse, trying to understand and do business with Technics. He sells the low end Yamaha line, but does not stock the
PSR 9000, or the Pro. (He is dealor for other brands too) He simply admires the product and business methods of Technics, but
has many problems with Yahama. Actually, the top line Yamies can not be demonstrated or purchased in Grand Rapids (half millon residents, from any of the six dealors in that city. I don't have any axe to grind George, but just find it upsetting the way some businesses are operated today. My dealor in G/R was on the road for Conn Organ Company for 40 years, so he understands the
business, and how it has operated for many many years. Thanks again for your West Coast View Point, and know that I admire and
look forward to your intellegent posts on this forum. May 2002, be good to you. ARJ
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ARJ

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#125981 - 12/22/01 06:21 PM Re: If you were to pick 2..., which ones?
Stevizard Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/00
Posts: 367
Loc: Indianapolis, IN, USA
George,

OK, I get the point, George, you're not biased but being "biased" isn't all bad. It just means that you like one thing more than another. Remember, I did admit my bias toward Yamaha. Why shouldn't I? After all, it simply means that I'm happy with what I have (at least until the next model arrives).

The local Technics dealer sells Yamaha too but always leads customers away from Yamaha keyboards and goes directly to Technics (unlike the examples given above of what you do). Since I'm in Ohio (3,000 miles from your store) I haven't had the opportunity to talk with you personally (my loss). As I've said a number of times before, if you were anywhere in Ohio I'd be a customer.

When I think of any keyboard being "BEST" I consider every aspect of the keyboard and what I can do with it. Ease of use is extremely important to me as is button layout, screen size, voices, styles, registrations, etc.

A keyboard might have the greatest features in the world but if it's a pain in the *&# to access them, then what good is it? When I add up everything, the 9000PRO is the clear winner for me (not for everyone but for me).

Korg has great sounds but it's a screen-surfer and I hate going from screen to screen (prefer buttons to screen hopping). I know people are going to hate this and I probably shouldn't say it but Technics looks like a toy to me and presentation is important. (Sorry Scott, I know you love Technics - don't hate me for the toy remark I know its a Pro instrument).

Unfortunately, NOBODY in Ohio carries or services Ketron products (another reason I prefer Yamaha). So, I've never seen one.

Frank, do what Uncle Dave says and GO PLAY THEM but DON'T ORDER ANYTHING SIGHT UNSEEN. When I first saw a GEM, I thought it was the most beautiful keyboard ever but when I played it, the layout didn't seem logical to me and was very awkward for me (but others absolutely LOVE it). You're not going to know which is best for you until you get your hands on it.

Sure, I could've given you my version of a feature by feature comparison (I think I did that a long time ago) but it doesn't make any difference what I think - what matters is how the keyboard feels and works for you, and YOU GOTTA PLAY IT to find that out.

Biased and loving it,
Steve

PS. I plan to remain biased until another manufacturer turns my head, then I'll simply change my bias - but I'll still be biased.
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Some see, some don't, some will, some won't

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