I got my first look and feel of the 2100 today. My first impression was.. " gee this seems exactly like my 2000 ". The key feel is maybe a tad stiffer ( because the board was brand new I would surmise ) but still not what I like. The voices and styles sound similar to the 2k except of course the new styles ( very few really that I would use a lot ) and voices. I did like one of the new guitar voices ( I can't recall the name ).
Overall, I like the board well enough that I would buy one, but I didn't find enough difference that I want to sell my 2000 and replace it with a 2100. If, however, I was looking to buy a new Yamaha arranger and didn't already have one, I'd definitely go with the 2100 unless the 2k was available for substantially less.

I tried the new Fantom S ( 61 note version ). I love the 16 assignable drum pads on it. The board seems to have a lot of cool features that I would find useful and it could hold my interest for that reason alone. The one disappointment... I expected better sounding acoustic instruments from a Roland. Some I liked but others.. I didn't care for at all. I don't care for all of the ones on my Motif either, but I like more of them than I do their counterparts on the Fantom. Perhaps it was the sound system that I played it through, but I just wasn't really impressed at all. Too bad, because it has some features that I'd like to have on the Motif.

The pleasant surprise today was the Triton Studio vers 2. I never cared for a lot of the acoustic "bread and butter" sounds on the previous Korg workstations / synths, but this baby sang to me. I didn't get a chance to check out all the features, but from what I did check out, I liked it very much. I could easily see myself owning one of these. I am not certain I'd give up my Motif to get one, but the board defintely has me interested.

I tried out the new "Moog" with the touch screen controller.. ( ok it's not THAT new ). I love it ..but..not enough to plunk down 3500 USD.. Of course if I had money to burn, I'd be looking at it right now in my studio as I type this.

I love trips to the music store.......

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-26-2003).]

I'm a 2000 owner with the dilemma of keeping or selling or trading up (?) for the 2100. Like others, I've seen the posted comments itemizing little difference between the two. Aside from style and voice issues,I'd be curious to know if the 2100 provides a better overall sound, i.e., clarity, richness, bass, etc., especially when played through an external sound system or recording monitor speaker setup. Anyone tried that?

I did not try it. The 2100 was side by side with the 2000 and maybe I should have done a little bit of back and forth referencing withnthe 2k on display there, because my 2000 is customized to my preferences, ie. eq settings, user voices and combinations.. etc. I'm not entirely sure that I'd notice a huge difference anyway, but I'm only basing this on having played the Tyros and the 2000 through the same sound system a while back. They sounded rather similar to me when I referenced shared sounds and styles. I know the answer for me is clear. For my own uses I see absolutely no reason to switch. Perhaps others would gain an advantage.. It isn;t the same as going from let's say the 550 or 740 to the 2000 though. The operating systems are close enough in the 2100 and 2000 that an experienced 2k user can get on the 2100 and probably use just about every function there.

AJ

In Portugal, some stores are offering the PSR 2000 units on stock at very interesting prices, around 1200 Euros, so it can be a nice opportunity for a good business.

-- Jose.

Aj, I surmise from what you have said that the T.S. is a vast improvement over the PA?
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

I've been playing the PSR2100 for about a week. The differences are scant. The main difference is the new voices. None of the new voices will make a significant difference in your style mix, even if you revoice your old styles. The new grand piano is definitely more realistic. There are some good new organ sounds, but there were already some good organ sounds on the PSR2000. The jazz guitar, nylon guitar, classical guitar are all good. The harmonica is a great voice. Voices that are pretty good are the violin and the muted trumpet. There are some new voices that you'll probably never use like flugal horn, oboe, harpsichord, grand harpsichord. The new horn sounds aren't that special. The Aloha guitar has a weird portamento effect that I haven't comprehended. It sweeps up the note like a hawaaian guitar, but this has really made a few of my solos sound horrible.

OK, but there are no new drum voices, no new bass voices, no new acoustic guitar voices, no new electric guitar voices. What makes up the rhythm section of most music? Drums, bass, electric guitar, acoustic guitar. So basically, most of your styles will sound exactly the same.

Apart from the new voices everything is pretty much the same. You get some new styles. Well you can download these anyway and put them on a floppy.

You get about 500mb more flash memory. You get the USB software. No big deal. The bass response on the internal speakers is slightly improved.

If you can get a great deal on the PSR2100 and get a good price for your PSR2000, you might want to trade up, if you really yearn for those new voices. I would try one first and check out the scant differences for yourself.

Beakybird

Of course you meant 500 "kb". I don't want anybody who doesn't know about PSR's to start drooling. Sorry if I burst anyone's bubble. PS: Did you all know that the new Mid Range Technics KN2600 Arranger Keyboard has SD Memory Storage capability? So with the Technics KN2600 "500Mb" is NOT out of the question down the road. I know they have the 256Mb SD Memory Cards available for purchase and it probably won't be long before they will have a 500Mb Card available. And over time SD Memory Card prices should fall in price dramatically just like the Computer SD RAM and DDR RAM have done. Yamaha better step up the pace and get with it or there going to find themselves eating other Arranger Keyboard Manufacturers dust imho. People are going to wake up and finally realize that they don't have to (and will NOT) settle for these miserly USER Storage Memory options that are currently available on some Arranger Keyboards, Yamaha's in particular. My next Arranger, whether it be a Mid Range one or a High End one has GOT to have substantially more User Memory storage options whether Flash RAM, SD Memory Card, or whichever. There is just way too much storage limitations as it is. Hard Drives are a good thing but it must have the ability to Defragment itself WITHOUT having to dis-assemble it each time and hook it up to a Computer. With USB 2.0 or Firewire this could be accomplished very easily without taking drastic and a potentially dangerous task of periodically manipulating and handling the Hard Drive with the possibility of damaging it. Not Cool to say the least!

Whew!! I'm kinda glad Beakybird (Larry) made that typo. It gave me another opportunity to speak out and let anyone and everyone who has anything to do with Arranger Keyboards know how I feel and I suppose how a vast majority feel in regards to these Memory constraints were all faced with, especially those that own a Yamaha PSR. Unacceptable, Uncalled for, and not tolerable ANYMORE! For me anyways. I'm outta here! as far as sticking with Yamaha's Arrangers UNLESS Yammie starts giving their customers more and better Storage options on their Arranger Keyboards. And I think maybe I'm not the only one. If I look around I just might see others making a mass exodus too. Brand loyalty is one thing but there is a limit imo to how much people will take on important issues like User Memory. When people won't tolerate it any longer and in droves start looking elsewhere for their Arranger needs you can rest assured Yamaha will start doing something about it. But it would be in their best interest imo to do something about it now before that happens. Yamaha's Product Development Team must be asleep at the switch to keep doling out these miserly and piddling Flash RAM capacities. Either that or their very shrewd and conniving using the carrot on a stick approach to entice us and edge us on to keep upgrading ever so incrementally. My hunch tells me it's the latter. And I for one will keep sticking it to them by prodding, poking, and letting them know how I feel and I think at least some of my sentiment is shared by other Yamaha PSR owners. PS: If I didn't care I wouldn't say a thing most likely. I would just search out for another Arranger Manufacturer and drop Yamaha like a hot potato. After Summer NAMM I may anyways after feasting my eyes and eventually playing the new Korg PA1-X. But on the whole I like Yamaha's Arrangers. In many ways they excel beyond the competition. Why not urge them on to start making Arrangers that are "over the top"?. And I use that term in a good way.

Do you ever get the feeling that were jumping through hoops to try and get Yamaha or other Arranger Manufacturers, to listen to us?

I'm outta here!!! Uh, I mean I've got to run an errand. Catch ya' all later.

Best regards,
Mike




[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 06-27-2003).]

Oops. Uh, 500kb.

If you are attached to Yamaha's mid-level arranger and want the extra storage, you can spend $200 and get an HDM drive like I have.

Not exactly a hard drive. My 128mb card makes it like 81 floppy drives on my keyboard.

It takes 7 seconds to change banks (from the time it takes to read the display of styles in one bank to being able to read the display of songs in the next bank. Then it takes 2-4 seconds to load a style (just like a floppy style).

Of course, you can change banks during your performance. Then when you go to the floppy drive, the styles are immediately visible.

Just an option I want everyone to know about. Now with the PSR2100, you can use the file utility software to organize the files on your HDM banks.

I've had this system for a few months now, on my PSR2000 and now on my PSR2100 and it is very stable.

Beakybird

Yamaha is already using smart medi storage on the Motif.. just not on their arangers. I don't wanna beat this subject to death here but I think that just ties into the other thread in which several of us commented about Yamaha putting the best features and effort into ( what they like to call ) their pro boards, and not desiring to do the same with their arranger line.

Terry.. I don't think of the TS 2 a vast improvement over the PA80, really because both boards do diferent things. Kinda like comparing the Motif to the 9k pro or Tyros.. it's hard to do ( at least in my mind ). Both the Ts and PA are very good at what they are made for, just as the Motif and Tyros both excel in my mind for what they are made for. I will say that having played the original Triton stuff and the Karma that I was very pleasantly surprised at how much I liked the voices on the TS2. I've just never thought of Korg wanting to put a whole lot of effort on making quality sounding ac instruments of their workstations. I more or less dismissed earlier models as great dance / hip hop / techno boards, but the biggest shocker to me was that I liked the TS2 acoustic sounds substantially better overall than the ones on the Fantom. I guess that I just expect top notch ac sounds from a Roland, and from what I heard of the Fantom S, I'm disappointed. I'm not looking to replace the Motif at this point just yet... It took me months of effort to just learn the thing. I don't really wanna start from scratch again and I'm still lovin' a lot of things about the Mo, but the notes just drop out way too much and way too often. The 64 note polyphony and the way it is distributed and used on the Mo is bad bad bad... I never get this type of dropout from the PA80 and rarely from the 2000 either. Still, if I do replace it, I'd give the fantom a second look and listen through a different sound system 'cause it's got great features and compared to the Motif an easy to understand OS, but if I don't like what I hear better the next time I try it, then it is not an option for me. On the other hand, I'm gonna give that TS2 a long workout and see if it has the features that I want in my workstation, and see how well I can adapt to the OS, 'cause I already know I like the way it sounds..

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-27-2003).]

AJ, here's some more info on the Fantom S. The cool thing about the acoustic or any other sound is that you can edit them to your liking. I also played the Fantom S (S88) and I thought many of the Preset acoustic sounds were actually quite good, excellent in fact. But it's nice to know the Fantom S has full sound editing capability. Example; Don't like that Pedal Steel guitar? (hypothetical question), then just edit and change it to your liking.

Here is the info:

The Roland Fantom-S Sampling Workstation:
Innnovative features, intuitive operation and Roland's world-renowned sounds...It's all here!
The new Fantom-S sampling workstation keyboards from Roland take music production to the next level. With options for everyone, the Fantom-S has a standard 61-note keyboard and the Fantom-S88 features an 88-note keyboard with Roland’s Progressive Hammer-Action. With flexible user sampling, seamless integration of audio and MIDI, all-new factory sounds and 16 Dynamic Pads—plus onboard mastering and a USB port for easy sample exchange—the Fantom-S/-S88 provide a complete solution for professional music production.

The idea behind the Fantom-S is to keep the creative process flowing. So the Fantom-S/-S88 integrates audio and MIDI in powerful ways. Audio can be sampled using the stereo analog inputs or imported via the USB port from a computer. It can then be assigned to one of the 16 Dynamic Pads, incorporated into a Patch as a waveform or added to a sequence. Audio can be sequenced along with MIDI data in realtime from either the keyboard or the pads. The Fantom-S/-S88 will even automatically stretch audio samples in realtime to match any tempo. This feature is called Realtime Timestretching and basically makes any audio phrase, like a beat loop or vocal riff, elastic.

In addition to being automatically stretched or compressed, samples can also be “Auto-Chopped” in the Fantom-S/-S88. For example, “Auto-chop” can take a sampled beatloop and chop it into 16th note pieces. With each piece assigned to a Dynamic Pad, the beatloop can be rearranged into a different beat using the same sounds as the original. Or, they can be played along with the original loop to create something totally unique. This is a great production and remix tool and the Dynamic Pads on the Fantom-S/-S88 make it even more useable.

The 16 Dynamic Pads provide another control surface in addition to the keyboard itself. They’re not only velocity sensitive, but aftertouch as well! Samples can be easily mapped to the pads or they can play ROM sounds or trigger sequenced (RPS) patterns—or all three at once. Using the pads to trigger internal drum sounds, samples or sequence patterns, along with the keyboard, offers a new level of realtime creative control. And no matter what you’re doing, the Fantom-S/-S88 is always sampling so you’ll never lose a creative moment.

An innovative feature called “Skipback Sampling” captures every idea without you even having to think about it. This function continuously samples everything you’re playing, so if you do something genius and want to capture it, you simply press the Skipback button. This takes everything that you were doing and saves it as a sample. Then you can apply the Mastering Effects to the sample and while you’re listening to that, hit “Skipback” and you have a mastered sample, ready for transfer.

The Fantom-S/-S88 comes with 32MB of sample RAM and is expandable to 288MB. This is an unprecedented amount of sample memory for any sampling workstation and is enough to resample an entire song! Samples can be saved to the 16MB internal flash memory or optional SmartMedia cards. The onboard USB port makes it easy to load .WAV or AIFF files from any USB equipped computer.

The USB port makes importing and transferring data from a computer completely seamless. Just plug a USB cable into the Fantom-S/-S88 and connect it to a computer. You don’t have to load drivers or anything. The Fantom-S/-S88 icon will simply appear on the computer desktop. Now, you can simply drag and drop .WAV or AIFF audio files from your computer hard drive into the Fantom-S/-S88. Likewise, a mastered audio waveform from the Fantom-S/-S88 can be transferred into the computer for making MP3s, CDs, internet distribution or use in a music software program.

The onboard sounds on the Fantom-S/S-88 are brand-new with 64MB-equivalent waveform ROM. Sampled in world-class studios around the world, these stereo-sampled waves are the finest Roland has ever offered. There are hundreds of new Patches and Rhythm Sets and they can also be expanded with up to four optional SRX-Series expansions boards. There are now nine expansion boards to choose from.

The huge LCD screen makes all of this functionality simple. The digital mixer screen and sample editing screen are excellent examples of how graphic editing can be accomplished quickly. The Fantom-S/-S88’s new Mixer View screen makes editing a multitimbral performance more like a digital mixer, using four knobs and the LCD to automate track levels, panning and effects. Also, audio and MIDI can be mixed together. A new Layer View screen offers quick graphic editing for layering and key zones. And with separate reverb, chorus and three multi-effects processors—plus a new mastering processor—musicians can mix down a song just like they’re working in a big digital studio.

"The only real drawback I see on the Fantom S/88 is that it only has 64 note Polyphony. Not being an Arranger of course there should be less need for onboard speakers but it's still a determent in my estimation although not a must have in this case. But as I mentioned before, if you Sample a lot of your sounds, that will free up additional Polyphony for your Keyboard playing. And maybe they will make an expansion card, (if they haven't already), that will increase the Polyphony.

Best regards,
Mike


[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 06-28-2003).]

Aj, I understand it was an incorrect comparison I made. I think the comparisons should be more like Mo vs TS2 and Pa X to the Tyros or 9K pro.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Thanks Mike. I've seen most of that before too. I know what the sales hype says, but the board just didn't seem to have much real "soul" for me.. Just the way I felt about it's predecessor too. I don't know if you understand exactly what I mean, but I suspect if you play keys a lot that you do. 64 poly just won't cut it either. Terry knows well that I love to tweak and I don't mind working for some better sounds, but ya gotta give me stuff that I like right outta the box too. Fantom on a large scale just isn't doing that for me. Motif does do it for me and so apparantly will the TS2. I sample some stuff and I work with some external samples, but that isn't my primary reason for buying a w/s. I'd rather do the detailed sampling on a dedicated sampler.

I wanted to love the original Fantom too, and I kept telling myself that if it added sampling, user arps..etc, that it would be a board that I'd want. The truth is though, unless I could dig some better sounds out of it in a hurry ( or more accurately sounds that please my ear ) , it just doesn;t interest me.

I know what you mean about the expansion cards. The Motif does it too with the add on XG card. If I understand right though, the additional 64 notes allotted when the XG card is plugged in can be used only with the XG voices themselves. Ummm.. no thanks Yamaha.. I just don't like many of the xg voices / samples as much as I do the internal ones.

Terry,

Exactly. I can't really give a fair comparison yet on TS2 vs Motif, but I'll surely spend more time with the TS2. One of the first things I wanna try the next time I play it is to see how easily I can make the notes drop out. It is very easy to do on the Motif ( unfortunately ) when for example, I emulate an acoustic guitar with some sustain.
Also I can't get overly excited about this PAX or whatever they want to call it. Not just yet anyway and not just on specs and sales hype alone... I will judge after I see and play one. Maybe for me it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread, or maybe it won't. The best analogy I can use is that the PA80 has been for me what the G1000 has been for Fran or the I30 has for Boo. Maybe the next person doesn't like it at all, but to me it matters little because it feels like a near perfect fit in my hands. The PA X would have to blow me away ..and hey .. maybe it will and then again maybe not.. we'll see....

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 06-28-2003).]

As far as the Triton sounds go. I play with both a Tyros and a Korg Triton Pro. On stage I use the Triton Piano's, Rhodes, Brass, and especially the Growl Sax. I have the Studio Essentials and the Vintage Piano's ROM's installed in the Korg. In my opinion, these put the Tyros sounds to shame. I use the Drawbars, Flutes, and Strings on the Tyros as they are superior to the Triton, although I could probably tweak them to sound as good as the Korg.

I would never get rid of my Korg, BUT I would upgrade to the newer Triton Studio!

Al

The Tyros flute sound is outstanding Al. So are several of the other sounds. Actually, I like the board a lot but to add another arranger to my setup that already includes the PA80 and PSR2000 is just overkill at this point. I'm really bugged about the poly issue with the Motif. It didn't bother me so much before until I started making custom guitar patches that include 3 or 4 samples. 64 notes poly really becomes only 16 when 4 seperate samples are used. Unacceptable for me. I have several PA80 patches that I've made that use multiple samples and they are often layered with other patches that have multiple samples to form a "performance" voice ( which would be the equivalent of a "combi" patch on a Korg workstation and I rarely if ever notice notes dropping out. On the Motif the notes don't actually drop off, rather, you just can't play the next note at all when the polyphony runs out. The one big drawback for me if I were to give up the Motif for a new w/s would be losing the host for the AN150 and VL1 plug in boards that I really like. Man that T/S 2 sang to me though. I'd have never guessed it..

AJ

AJ,

I'm not familiar with the Motif (although I want to be), but isn't there an add-on board that would extend the amount polyphony? There are boards for everything else, I would think Yammy would have an option available to extend the amount of notes up to 128? hmmmm.

Al,

You can add the XG plug in which allows for another 64 notes of polyphony, but.. I believe that polyphony can only be applied to the XG voices / samples. That isn't going to do much for me, since I prefer the "panel" voices and wouldn't use the xg voices much. ( Steve D jump in any time and correct me if I'm wrong ) This is my only real issue with the Motif, and if I play most of the voices on it, I have no problem, but.. I wanna play ALL the voices without note dropoff.

AJ

IDator: "But it's nice to know the Fantom S has full sound editing capability. Example; Don't like that Pedal Steel guitar? (hypothetical question), then just edit and change it to your liking. "
And then what? Where do you save it? You can't overwrite the same sound, you must save it as a new sound.

The only workstations that let you replace all sounds with your own liking are KORG's. TRITON and PA.

You know what is the most dangerous feature of Fantom S/88???

Imagine this: A song is being played back on stage, sounds very good. You press these 'favorite sounds' button on Fantom. Whithout any confirmation, Fantom changes all sounds on all tracks, with the song being played back live. Wow, the phat drums track suddenly sounds like a woman crying and seaguls quacking.. and than authentic guitar sounds like someone strumming on an agogo.

OR imagine this: You are in song recording mode, you setting up all tracks, effects, record few bars... then you are scrolling through different sounds, and you select one of your favorite sounds.... viola... all your settings are gone... but your recording is still there... and there is no way to undo what just happened.

Fantom has one of the least friendly OS on a workstation...... you will lose a lot of time on it. They put the Performance and Sequencer mode together.... so if you change the performance sound, you destroy your song settings. this is useless.



[This message has been edited by Shakil (edited 06-29-2003).]

You are right Shakil in that after a voice is changed it has to be saved to the Flash Ram. Roland provides 16 Mb of Flash Ram Storage Memory which is a whole heap more than, lets say for instance, the 580 Kb of the PSR 2000. But then again the Fantom S/88 does NOT have the ability to add a Hard Drive to the Keyboard. So yes, there are limitations.

I was able to play the Fantom S/88 again yesterday and although the Fantom S/88's sounds are mostly pretty decent yet MOST of them I would not consider PHAT. There are some PHAT sounds but they are few and far between imo. One compensation to that is the ability to add Expansion Cards to the Keyboard which will give it better and more of the PHAT sounding voices.

And I agree that there are several "quirks" in the Fantom's Operating System and it especially affects those Musicians that do Live Gigs. It is yet to be seen if Roland will provide fixes for these shortcomings but I would hope they will be quick in getting OS updates to the Fantom S/88 owners because there have been several complaints already over these discrepancies. PS: It is too bad that Roland didn't have the foresight to resolve those issues "before" they released the Fantom S/88 to the public. I guess they're using their customers as the guinea pigs to bring the bugs to their attention and then provide the fixes for them hopefully.

And I also played the Triton Studio with the new OS2 and without a doubt the sounds were much better than those on the Fantom S imo. Plus the Triton Studio has an internal Hard Drive. And the Acoustic Grand Piano Voice is much, much, much better than the older Triton Classic. It is a 16 Mb Stereo sample and it blows the Triton Classic's out of the water imo.

But of course you will have to pay upwards of $700 [441 Pounds] more for the Triton Studio than the Fantom S.

Best regards,
Mike

Did you check the hard disk recorder in Triton Studio? It has a 2 track HDR built right in the Sequencer.

You can't fill the whole 16 MB flash ram with sounds. You can only have 1 bank of 128 user sounds on.

With KORG workstations and PA, you can REPLACE the preset with your own sound, so no need to keep the sounds you will never use.

Did you check the hard disk recorder in Triton Studio? It has a 2 track HDR built right in the Sequencer.

No Shakil, I did not know this.. But....

The Fantom S/88 is able to use a Smart Media Card (up to 128Mb card) and you CAN store edited voices onto the Smart Media card and call them up any time you want. Plus I found out you can also store changed voices to the Sample RAM "32Mb included" and up to 288Mb. So theoretically you could edit and store each and every Voice on the Fantom S if a person wanted to and store them in the Sample RAM. So instead of making a whole new voice as with the Triton Studio, you would have the best of both worlds by keeping the Original Patch and also having access to your edited Patch on the Smart Media Card or the Sample RAM. Note: Most people won't be using the Sample RAM to store edited Voices though. They would most likely use the Smart Media Card for that. With a 128Mb Smart Media Card a person could store many, many, edited Voices on it if they wanted to.

Yes, I knew about the 2 track HDR on the Triton Studio 2. Way Cool!! They have really transformed the Triton Studio 2 into an awesome Workstation Keyboard. It would be a worthy contender on any Keyboardist's Gear list imho. A truly fantastic Keyboard!

Best regards,
Mike

Yamaha introduces the new Motif ES at the Summer NAMM show. This new model has more knobs, a larger screen, a ribbon controller and here's the best. 175MB of sounds including the mega voices from Tyros, 128 note polyphony and a sampler with up to 512MB of sample memory. The price of the new models, including a 61, 76 and 88 model will be about $100.00 more than the current models. The 61 key Motif will continue at a new low price map price of $1495.00
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Whoa!! Thanks for the news George. It looks like Yammie just made the Fantom S/88 obsolete. Kudos to Yamaha for responding so fast with the introduction of the new Motif ES's. Definitely a serious threat not only to the Fantom S/88 but they will probably also put a sizable dent in the Korg Triton's sales too.

Don't you just love competition?

Best regards,
Mike

It will be interesting to see how they incorporate the Mega Voices in the Motif ES. Since the Motif is not an Arranger and it doesn't have Styles. Maybe they will be incorporated with the Arpeggiator or maybe different Sampled RAM sets already Sampled into it from the factory.

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 06-30-2003).]

That's nice but at the same time I'm not thrilled, as the only options the current Motif user has is to add the xg board for more poly ( with sounds I don't want ) or add the rack ( and spend the big bucks ) . I wish Yamaha could find a way for me to add the polyphony to the internal sounds on the board I already own and spent good money for. I'd be willing to pay for it.. not asking for a freebie.. but I know I'm wishing for something that won't happen.

Well, it looks like another game of wait and see, and then maybe sell the one I have, take it on the chin, and get the new model, or maybe not. I'm not even sure that 128 polyphony is enough though, in the way Yamaha allocates it..
That TS2 looks better every day....

AJ

I also forgot to mention that there are 8 insert effects, two global effects and two mastering effects on the Motif ES.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I hear ya' AJ. Yamaha's boards seem to allocate Polyphony to where it doesn't add up to true specifications, ie., 64, 128, etc. In other words it doesn't translate into true 64, 128, etc., Polyphony. Compare that to GEM boards where Paul D says the Genesys Pro, which he owns, has 64 note Polyphony and he has NEVER run out of Polyphony. Go figure. Here are some specs on the Triton Studio that may be of interest to some:

Korg Triton Studio

2 master effects (mono in, stereo out),
5 insert effects (stereo in/out),and
1 master EQ (3 band stereo) simultaneously

102 (insert effects/89 for master effects

16 timbres, 16 tracks, 1/192 resolution,
150 preset/100 user patterns per song,
200 songs, 20 cue lists, 200,000 notes maximum,

Polyphony
60 Oscillators to play PCM samples from the internal ROM bank or RAM (user sampling), and 60 oscillators to play PCM samples from the internal Piano bank or an EXB-PCM expansion board
http://www.korg.com/downloads/mp3/TRITONSTUDIO/S004PROG.MP3
http://www.korg.com/downloads/mp3/TRITONSTUDIO/S000BULL.MP3

Note: As you can see the Midi Timing Resolution is only 192 PPQ but there is a whopping 200,000 note recording max. for the Sequencer. That is huge. The Midi Timing Resolution of the Motif is 1920 PPQ I believe, so the Motif is the clear winner there. The Motif has 1728 more PPQ "Parts Per Quarter Note" timing resolution than the Triton Studio.

Interesting comparisons. The true gravy will be in hands on playing of the Motif ES to get a accurate comparison between to two.

Best regards,
Mike

PS: Also of interest is the Triton Studio has only 120 note Polyphony and only 60 can be used with the User ROM/Sample RAM. The other 60 is allocated to the Piano Bank.

While we are talking about MOTIF and TRITON... there is a huge difference in how YAMAHA and KORG deals with the insert effects.

On KORG's side, Insert effects are more like insert effect buss... you can patch more than one tracks to the same insert effect.

While on yamaha synths, you can patch an insert effect to only one track.

This is a major difference.

I also know that there are 8 insert effects on MOTIF rack, but it's like this:
You can have 2 insert effects on a track. And can have 4 tracks which have insert effects ON. So, in other words, only 4 tracks can have one of the insert effects at a time.

On TRITON, even there are only 5 insert effects, but all tracks can be routed to one of the 5 insert effects.

On the other hand, IF Yamaha WOKE up and moved the element EQs to Part EQ, and it's like on the MOTIF rack, where you have 3 band EQ on each of the 16 part, it will not be that bad.