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#116838 - 01/17/02 09:33 PM Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Well......here goes my first report as I have just come home from my meetings with Roland, Yamaha, Generalmusic, Ketron and a visit to Technics....
I'll start with the easiest and move on to the hardest (in the amount of time it will take me to explain what I've seen.
Technics 6500 still does not impress me for as big and expensive. I tried the acoustic grand piano and was disapointed with it's lack of harmonic content when playing the keys soft to loud. Most of the new keyboards really shine in mulisampling on one key and I just don't notice this on technics. I still don't like the drum kits cymbal sounds. I think they sound canned! Sorry to those of you who really like the 6500.
Ketron had only one new product to view which was a glossy baby grand version of the SD1 with a selling price between $5000.00 and $6,000.00. It is very beautiful and looks very expensive. All features of the SD1 are included. Nothing else to report except that I had a really lengthy talk with Sandro and Paulo regarding quality control issues, packing issues and I suggested they hire somone like AJ to do technical support in the USA. They were quite interested in hearing all my comments including needing a lower priced product in their line up. For those of you experiencing screen blackouts on early SD1's, Ketron has a fix for this problem which requires a service center to replace a capacitor and possibly a condenser inside the unit. As to an oriental version of the SD1 it seems that they will make the X1oriental sounds and patterns available soon for SD1 use and I've explained to Paulo and Sandro the need for Armenian type styles besides the Arabic and the use of more instrumental tracks besides the oriental percussion.
Moving on to Yamaha, the four new keyboards I already knew would be shown, were shown. This includes a really good looking 88 key non-weighted version of the PSR350, a 76 key version, a replacement for the PSRGX76 and a new PSR292 low priced 61 note keyboard. Nothing was talked about the replacement for the 9000 series at this show. The PSR9000 and 9000pro were both on display. The DGX500 will sell for $795.00 (88 keys) the DGX300 with 76 keys will be $595.00, the DGX202 (replacement for the PSRGX76) will retail for $425.00 and the PSR292 I believe is around $295.00. All models are silver in color(as all the new models have been) and will be great values I'm sure.
Roland was somewhat a surprise, but not really. My district manager knew nothing about the VA76 until he was shown this a few days ago and was given these to sell to all pro Roland dealers (not CK dealers). The ability to sell both the CK and the PRO's is unique for my store. The VA76 is a version 2 VA7 with 76 keys, no speakers, a few front panel pad buttons and dedicated buttons for lower 1 and lower 2 and upper 1 and upper2 on and offs. The price for this keyboard will retail at $2995.00 with a MAP price of probably $2495.00. If you've been following my posts, the street price of the VA7 in my store has dropped to under $2000.00 and will continue there for the time being because the CK division made me an offer I couldn't refuse. However, they said this price on VA7's and VA3's are only NAMM show specials. Also, Roland introduced from the pro division the EM55 which we all expected. At a list of $995.00 and a MAP (minimum advertised price) of $895.00 I'm not sure how this will stack up. It looks much like the EM25 but with more features. There is 64 voice polyphony, a DBEAM controller,3,559 tones and 116 drum kits. There is a 100 popular song music asistant data base, DJ Pads (8) for triggering sounds or pre recorded phrases, a 16 track sequencer and a floppy drive. Maybe, as I write this I think this might be pretty good for the money after all.
The big news is from Generalmusic. Chris Anthony debut the new Genesis keyboard. First let me tell you that those of you wanting something light in weight will not like this at all. It weighs about 5 or 6 lbs more than the PSR9000. BUT.......what you get for this weight is almost 100 watts of the best built in speaker system I've every heard. What they've done is build a relatively narrow 61 key keyboard and put the speakers pointing right at the player up across the back and top of the keyboard. You feel like you've got studio monitors pointing at you. There are also vents and ports on the back to direct sound to you're audience, including a large bass port right in the middle of the back. The keyboard in the current crop of silver color. I am going to report everything off the top of my head because Chris is emailing me the spec sheet later tonight but I really wanted to let you know as much as I can remember about this keyboard.
There is 64 voice polyphony, the same 32 track 250,000 note sequencer from the WK series. You can program I believe 64 user styles, there is a dedicated section on the front panel with two sliders for the vocal harmonizer. The volume of the mic and the volume of the harmony. The Harmony board itself is the same as the WK8se but now there are three dedicated effects processors. Reverb, Echo and Compressor. Chris Anthony really impressed upon me how easy this keyboard is to work and I agree with him. For those of you thinking Generalmusic keyboards have had a high learning curve, I think you will be surprised.
The sounds are amazing. Chris has done a job like none I've ever experienced. The "live" sounds have captured every detail of live instruments including the way Trumpet players lip and the way a violinist slides up the neck. You will have to hear this to believe me. The styles are better than anything Chris has done. He played me about 40 styles from Big Band to Rock and they were all as live and real as any CD I've heard. The keyboard even has effects that are only to do things like stums for guitars, etc. He played a Trumpet with natural shake when you applied aftertouch and the best Tenor Sax I've ever heard. Chris is a sax player and he sampled himself! If at this point you think I'm excited you're right. If it also sounds like I've got stock in this company, I assure you I don't. I've just heard something so good, I'm excited. Now to let you know about all the new features.
Everything in this keyboard is in Flash Ram. There is nothing permanent. You have 64MB of sample ram. The factory has given you 48 MB of sounds which will come stock, leaving you 16 MB for your own samples or loading in Samples. Oh, by the way, there is a CD recordable drive. You can load samples from Akai, Wav, AIFF formats. You can even completely erase all the sounds stock from the factory and replace them with anything you want. And, if you want the factory stuff back, you can restore them with the supplied CD Rom that is included in the box. You can replace all the styles if you want.
You can record a midi file song, or load one you already have, plug in a mic or Guitar, record directly to the 3.5GB drive and then push the button called "MAKE CD" and you've just created an audio CD of your entire performance. You can even play MP3's and load them into the Hard Drive, then remove the vocal part, add your own and burn a CD. You can also record a midi file, create an audio file so you can free up the polyphony of the keyboard to play more and record more. I wish I can remember all the features, but this is just what my brain is remembering right now. I've seen so much today.
There are dedicated buttons for lyrics and notation to make things easy.
My concerns for this keyboard are not many but they are the weight, the light touch synth action (like the Korg PA80), however, this was still a prototype and Mr. Galantti from the company in Italy told me he would be looking into an action possibly more like the Ketron products and last would be the price. However, I don't think it's too much for all you get. Some of you might have liked to have seen 128 note polyphony but it just won't happen! The retail price is open but I would suggest a price of around $3995.00. Again, remember how much stuff is on this board.
There are the same volume sliders as the WK series except there is now a dedicated volume control for the entire style besides an overall volume control and you still have individual ones for Drums, Bass, Accomp, Lower, Upper tones.
The product is supposed to be ready by April.
Oh, there are 4 outputs and SCSI built in.
I'm sure I've missed a ton of things but this is just a start.
I saw many friends at the show today. There is much more to see Saturday and Sunday. I have to work at the store tomorrow.
If I mispelled alot of words, please excuse me, I don't have time to reread this tonight.
Regards,
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California


[This message has been edited by George Kaye (edited 01-17-2002).]
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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
(Retired 2021)

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#116839 - 01/17/02 09:55 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Hi George,

thanks for the great report.

Good job.

Eric
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#116840 - 01/17/02 10:07 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
I just remembered another great new feature on the Genesis Chris showed me today. For you jazz players out there, there is a set of buttons (i think 5) to give you quick access to full keybord mode, split bass, split chord, (a few others which I can't remember) and the best is called pro split. With this, if you play a chord on the right hand and just play one single bass note on the left (like in JAZZ type chord style playing) the chord you play on the right hand will produce the bass line on the left so that if you want to change to a C/D you just play the D on the left. The style is choosen by you selecting a style and just a bass line will play instead of the whole accomp. Also, the way the keyboard is designed, when you hit a catagory of lets say Piano, when you hit the split button, an appropriate bass sound will be selected based on the piano sound you choose. I'm not a piano player so Chris had to demonstrate this for me slowly so that I could understand what he was doing. He showed me the way a piano player would typically play with two hand on the piano to create a bass feel.
Also, if you choose the button called chord split, you will get an appropriate pad sound for the left hand. This is a nice touch and of course you can select any sound you might like to have. Again, by putting so many dedicated buttons on the panel, many features are really easy to find fast.
George Kaye
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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
(Retired 2021)

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#116841 - 01/17/02 10:42 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Way to go George. Sounds great. Have fun.
DonM
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#116842 - 01/17/02 10:55 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Great - they're getting heavier and more expensive !


Good report George - thanx!
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#116843 - 01/18/02 12:40 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1925
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
George...Thanks for taking the time to do your first report of NAMM. Looking forward to reading more of them.

Graham UK

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#116844 - 01/18/02 05:29 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
arnothijssen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 255
Loc: Marietta, GA USA
Thanks george for the great report.

Roland and Yamaha did as expected. I would love to try out that new GEM board, I used to own a GEM keyboard and have been very pleased with it. Gem has been following the same trend as Roland, they come out with a board with speakers and 61 "synth" keys first, and then later a pro version without speakers, a robust housing and 76 semi weighted keys (like my G1000).
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#116845 - 01/18/02 07:25 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Beakybird Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2227
I wish they would come out with a 35 lb. version with 61 keys, speakers, and under $2500 street price. I would be serious about it. I can't be serious about a 50 lb. keyboard for performing. Too bad. Hopefully they will come out with a slightly scaled down, lighter version.

Larry

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#116846 - 01/18/02 07:26 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Thank's for the inside report.
Nice to know what happens, even if there was
not much news from from Technics.
GJ
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GJ
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#116847 - 01/18/02 07:48 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Many of us hauled trailers with Hammonds and Lesile speakers in them for years. I can't believe you folks are whining about fifty pounds, fifty pounds is nothing.
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Thanks,

Tom

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#116848 - 01/18/02 07:49 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
George and Scott and DanO,

How are the organ and piano sounds on the new Gem?

Thanks

Tom
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Thanks,

Tom

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#116849 - 01/18/02 08:07 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Tom,
When we used to carry the Hammonds around - we stayed in the same room, 5 days a week for a few months at a time. Today, we do ALL one night stands, and 50 lbs just makes the work too exhausting. Sure, I can lift it, but try to navigate it in and out of car doors in crowded parking areas, up and down small elevators or through tiny kitchen hallways in big hotels.
Even with versitile dollys and carts - there is a very real disadvantage to lugging a "beast" of that size & weight around. Most rooms do not even have stages anymore, and we set up in corners, behind couches, or on wobbly platforms. NONE of which are really spacious enough for even my favorite old Rhodes setup.
It's a different world, my friend. If you want to work in today's music business - better be prepared to move easy, and often! We have to go where the music is needed, and that is not as easy or convienient as "back in the day".
I'm not really sure if I miss those days or not ...... people drank more, and danced more, but today's crowd is cool too. Just different. I sure could do without the everyday moving though!
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#116850 - 01/18/02 08:22 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Uncle Dave,
You're exactly right. I used to stay at full-time jobs for several years at a time. Those jobs are very few and far between now.
The weight and size DOES make a difference.
I would like to see Donnie's setup, with the Rock 'n Roller cart. Send me a pic DNJ.
DonM
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#116851 - 01/18/02 08:38 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Piano and Organ sounds were great. In the time I spent with Chris, listening at times through headphones and then taking them off and only listening through the internal speaker system, I asked Chris to play (because he can play so well) Piano, Rhodes, Hammond, Flute, Trumpet, Tenor Sax, Guitar, Flute, etc.(all of my favorite sounds to judge a keyboard by). I didn't listen much to synth sounds, because most keyboards do this so well anyway. The smile on my face was exactly the same kind of smile I had the first day Sandro at Solton (Ketron) played me the prototype styles on the X1, three years ago at NAMM. For those that know me and know my passion for Arrangers, you know the feeling. I asked Chris if I could play the keyboard for a moment with the Grand Piano sound because I like to try out the way the sound becomes more "real" as a real piano is struck with lower to higher velocity. If it sounds very mellow and soft and becomes darker and bold as you play with heavier touch. This Piano was exactly what I was looking for. Next, the test will be from you players who have different levels of expectations.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
(Retired 2021)

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#116852 - 01/18/02 10:46 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
danb Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/98
Posts: 306
George,
What are some improvements or additions to the PSR-GX27 replacement? How do you rate the GX27 against other Yamaha keyboard in its class. BTW, thanks for the NAMM report. You did an excellent job.

Dan

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#116853 - 01/18/02 11:35 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
macbabbi Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/99
Posts: 79
Loc: New York
So when will the va76 be released to ny?

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#116854 - 01/18/02 12:13 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Anonymous
Unregistered


George...
GREAT reporting. Other sites are carrying updates, but none are so targeted to arrangers. Your work is most appreciated.
Eddie

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#116855 - 01/18/02 01:10 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
OK Don and U.D. let's not get crazy. I've played for 30 years. Granted not as often as you guys but every Friday and Saturday and once in a while two gigs on the same day. In thirty years there were two weekends that we played at the same place. All the rest were one night stands. In the grand scheme of things 50 pounds is still a remarkable blessing. I know we all want the perfect keyboard, but I wouldn't let 10 or 15 pounds be the determining factor in my choice. I would not sacrifice great sound just because of the extra weight. The high price most definately. I too would like to see Donny's setup. Show us Donny!
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Thanks,

Tom

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#116856 - 01/18/02 01:46 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
You'd change your mind if you had to tote it around 300-350 times a year! Besides - size is just as critical these days. Price is the last thing on my mind - as a pro, I need the right tool for work. This is my job .... not just a "gig". It's my office, my future and my recreation.
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#116857 - 01/18/02 02:10 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Tom, to be honest, I don't feel as if I'm sacrificing much at all with the PSR2000. It sounds good, has good styles, is inexpensive and LIGHTWEIGHT to boot. As you can tell, support is everywhere. There are two books in the works that I know of, Scott's and Dave's.
DonM
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#116858 - 01/18/02 02:34 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I only see boxes where the photo should be.
Don
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#116859 - 01/18/02 03:34 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
I have to agree with UD here. I don't know about today but in the 60's we played six nghts a week in Morgan City at Morice's Lounge, in Louisiana from September through the first week of January for the Shrimp Festival season.

Then we'd play in the French Quarter at the House Of Zin 5 nights a week for 4 or 5 months at a time. We use to hang around for a couple of hours when we finished then go eat and then play for a 6AM to 8AM jam session on Bourbon Street at the Blue Angle. Yes I played some strip joints in the olden days. Can you believe that.

We did this off and on for several years. I still couldn't make any money so I learned to lay brick. Ha! Ha!.

We use to get $12 to $15 a night. Now I desperately want to be UD, Don, Donnie, or Scott. I've come full circle with music.

There was a black Tenor man around the block from my home about 24 years old. I was about 15 or 16 in the 50's. He and I couldn't believe that I was getting $12 or $15 a night and he had to play for $8 to $10 a night. He practiced 6 to 8 hours a day in a closet so as not to disturb his sick father. He blew circles around me. I think he played on the West Coast some time back. Maybe Scott heard of him. I think his name is Roy Henderson.

George, If you find an (i30PA80), that is a keyboard with the features of the i30 sliders and all, especially the touch screen (not the PA80 touch screen system, WHAT A MONSTER)and the sounds of the PA80 with speakers ( I agree with UD here on the speakers)just send me one. I don't care what it cost. I'll sell all my belongings and divorce my wife if I have to so as to pay you. Don't call or write just send it to:

Boo Hargis
216 Lexington Way East
Grand Junction, Colorado 81521
If it were possible I'd give you my VISA number here.
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#116860 - 01/18/02 03:55 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
flowerssupply Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/99
Posts: 312
Loc: Ireland
I would like light weight but I also am enchanted with good piano sound so I carry Corg sampling grand which is really a two man job to carry but Little me does it all on me own and I have three back injuries. I will get to the weight of it, but it is about as heavy as 4 arranger keyboards??.
I cant drag myself down to the sound of my X1 piano or its or feel or response. At home perhaps x1 sounds reasonable but compare it at gig --500% 1000% ??I dont know but I cant (to Date) do without it.I did try.
I sometimes play for 3 hours and I feel that 5 minutes haulage for 3 hours playing is more than worth the heavy load. Sometimes I admire those that can settle for the lesser sounds. I should say that my style makes it hard for me to accept bad piano. Pierce
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#116861 - 01/18/02 04:44 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
tgalf Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 16
Loc: NYC, NY USA
I confer with DonM, the NAMM showings just convince me to stay on track to get a PSR2000. Cost v. features it looks to be a great keyboard- plus its not a back breaker.
As for the sounds, how come I havent heard much about working with some of the quality synt or sample modules. SOme are quite small (I admit have not rounded the models up yet).
Seems a good GM module with work nice with an arranger. I know.... you want it all in one box, but even as shown in this NAMM, the manufacturers just arent there yet.
Its great George, that you posted so quickly, the harmony-central.com web site, which has a NAMM review page does not give much coverage for arrangers.
What a great forum. I am buying a house real soon and I have to wait till its closed to get my arranger. No matter how much money I end up with, I still may go with a modest PSR2000. After all, still looking for my custom martin M-38 I hope to order in 2002.
Chow,
Tgalf

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#116862 - 01/19/02 12:44 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
ComposerRyan Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/01
Posts: 225
Thanks George for that lengthy and detailed report of NAMM! I really appreciate the detail you put into that writing, I found it VERY interesting and it gave us an inside look at Winter NAMM!

The GENESIS sounds awesome from what I read in your post! I am so excited to hear the news! It includes features that I have never heard of, unlike any other keyboard. The CD Burner is one of my favorite features and the 3.5 gigabyte hardrive too. It sounds massive and I am really glad that the sound is improved! That is the best news I have heard. However, the price of $4,000 is just insane! Who is going to buy a keyboard for $4,000 - you could by 4 decent computers with that money! General Music had better lower their price to $2,000 - $2,500 instead of, what was it, $4,000?! Sure, it sounds awesome, but no keyboard is worth $4,000.

Also, I know you wrote a lot, but if you don't mind, I have some questions for you.

1) Is the GENESIS' CDRW Drive optional and do you have to pay extra to get it included with the keyboard? I'm wondering this because the Triton Studio has a CDRW drive, but you have to pay $400 extra to have it included with the keyboard!

2) Also, about the Yamaha DGX300 and DGX500: Do the DGX keyboards come with an onboard sequencer, where you can record to it like that of a standard 16 track sequencer? Also, what other voices does is have other than the piano and how many voices in total are there?

Well, again, thank you very much for that detailed report. I found it very useful - I am very glad that you were so kind to take the time to post it out to us who could not go! Thanks a lot, see you around on the forums,
Ryan
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VISIT THOMAS BROTHERS MUSIC AT:
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ALSO, PLEASE BE SURE TO VISIT THE WEBQUAD NETWORK AT:
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#116863 - 01/20/02 05:40 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Ryan, yes the Genesis comes with the CD installed, it is not an option. Also, the price for the Genesis will be about $400.00 more than the 9000 pro or the SD1 is selling in most stores and less than most stores sells the Technics KN6500 and the Roland VA76, so I don't think this is an overpriced keyboard considerating a 100 what system, 64 MB, a CD burner, 3.5MB hard drive and Vocal harmonizer and a host of other great features.
The Yamaha DX keyboards have the standard 6 track yamaha sequencers found in other lower priced Yamaha keyboards such as the PSRGX76, the PSR282 and the EZ30 keyboards. Nothing fancy in the new DX500. The sounds are about 600 and are better than the lower models but not as many as the PSR550 and the PSR2000.00 There are music data bases on all and the ability to layer and split which has been off the lower priced Yamaha's is now available on all new models. Also, when you select the voice, style, song buttons, you will have the whoe switch light up which is a nice touch and on the replacement for the PSRGX76 (again I can't remember the name) there is both a data wheel for changing sounds and a keypad if you like.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
(Retired 2021)

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#116864 - 01/20/02 06:32 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
ComposerRyan Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/01
Posts: 225
Thanks again George! That information is very helpful and I truly appreciate it.

About the DGX500 keyboard, 600 voices is a lot to me, considering that I do not have the money for higher priced keyboards. Plus, the DGX has 88 keys, which is really cool...and the sequencer seems decent for the price. Again, that information is very useful to me.

About the GENESIS, of course it has a lot of features. But to people who just do not have the money, it is just ridiculous. $4,000 is too much for any type of keyboard, I still hope that they lower the price somewhat. But, anyway, it is an awesome looking keyboard from what I have seen at Scott Yee's website. You are right, the speakers do look expensive. The keyboard is VERY impressive and it is obvious that GEM worked extremely hard. I have also heard the sounds are just astonishing and that is the most important part!

Well, thanks a lot for the help! Have a nice day and see you around on the forum,
Ryan
_________________________
VISIT THOMAS BROTHERS MUSIC AT:
http://www.webquad.com/ph

ALSO, PLEASE BE SURE TO VISIT THE WEBQUAD NETWORK AT:
http://www.webquad.com

CONTACT ME AT:
composerryan@webquad.com

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#116865 - 01/20/02 09:28 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
danb Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/98
Posts: 306
When can we expect to see those new gears on the market? Next year?

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#116866 - 01/20/02 09:54 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
the genesys is due in april of this year
George Kaye
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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
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#116867 - 01/20/02 11:21 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Sander Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 189
Loc: Hoogeveen, Drenthe, The Nether...
I'm expecting a lot then of the new Genesis if it's going to cost around $4000. In comparison.. The functions of the WK8 board were OK in my opinion, but I do not like the sound overall. I'm now starting to be curious what's GEM really bringing out. The prices of the WK8 SE dropped hard here. One of the local musicstores here also doesn't seem like to get off his GEM's that are still in the shop.

[This message has been edited by Sander (edited 01-20-2002).]

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#116868 - 01/21/02 06:32 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
arnothijssen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 255
Loc: Marietta, GA USA
50 lbs, thats all ?

I used to play in a band with an average of 1 gig a week. We set up a full pa, mixers, lights, you name it.

50 lbs is a breeze!
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#116869 - 01/21/02 04:52 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
1 gig a week ????? That's less than my vacations ! Believe me, when it's your "real job" every advantage counts. I do over 100 gigs every year that do not even require more sound than the keyboard's internal speakers .... and these gigs pay more than most 3 piece bands get.
Some girls may argue this point, but size DOES matter.
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#116870 - 01/21/02 07:54 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
TONE Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 14
Loc: Milwaukee, MI. , USA
Wow! Thanks for the GREAT info. George.

Man, reading your info on the Genesis is really making excited. I have one question to ask. How would you compare all of the accoustic sound on the Genesis vs the SD1? I would really like to know your opinion on that, thanks very much...............

Tone

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#116871 - 01/21/02 08:33 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Beakybird Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2227
I agree with Uncle Dave. I myself do at least 400 - 500 gigs a year. Incidentally, I have a great setup:
My PSR2000 with 2 sustain pedals, adapter, music stand, floppies, and headset microphone in a vinyl gig bag. A folding keyboard stand. These two go on my luggage cart. On my shoulder I carry a duffle bag with two Advent Powered Partner speakers - 8 lbs. apiece. I can arrive at my gigs eight minutes before show time and set up in time.

The Genesys looks like an amazing machine. Now if the 50 lb. Genesys had modest monitors plus two powerful speakers facing the audience, I would be interested. But the Genesys speakers face directly toward the musician. This keyboard was made with the studio musician in mind - not the gigging musician. At the same time, many studio musicians are using their computer with their computer's CDR drive to make recordings. I don't think you can beat a software like Cakewalk for MIDI sequencing - especially when you have the advantage of a 19" screen. So the Genesys is really made for a small niche - studio musicians who are computer phobic. The gigging musician is inconvenienced by the weight of speakers facing the wrong direction and the computer desktop musician is paying for sequencing capabilities and a CDR that he doesn't truly need - not when there's a hard drive and SCSI or USB.
I hope GEM comes out with a scaled down version of this monster, much like the PSR2000 is a scaled down version of the PSR9000. If they do, I'll be checking it out.

Larry

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#116872 - 01/21/02 08:45 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3305
Loc: Reseda, California USA
You need to know that even though the speakers face the player, Generalmusic has also placed large openings at the back of the keyboard so that the sound also travels to the audience quite well. Yamaha has come out with a new piano called the P120 and it also has built in speakers which are also ported to the back as well as the top so the audience can hear the sound quite well. Genesys does the same thing.
Sound wise I was so impressed with the Genesys. The acoustic instruments especially. The Ketron SD1 has great sounds, however, with just the hour or so I had listening to the Genesys, I thought it's sounds were of a level above what I've considered the best so far. It's not to say that the SD1 or Roland VA's aren't great, but each new generation of technology tends to surpass what we have come to consider the best we know. I'm sure you can understand this with the way the computer world is. We have come to expect miracles from these manufactures when they come out with new machines and I think we almost always get it.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
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George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene (Closed after 51 years)
West Hills, California
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#116873 - 01/21/02 09:02 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Beakybird,

You make very good points. I hope MAYBE some day Manufacterers will LISTEN to the "NEEDS" of Single Pro Arranger Keyboard Players and design an Arranger Keyboard for the Gigging Musician. Maybe, in our lifetime we might see it done. :>)

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#116874 - 01/21/02 11:17 PM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
BossX Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/00
Posts: 33
Loc: Chitown, USA
AAAAAAHHHH!!
Beakybird.. you are playing the equivelent of more than 2 gigs a day , 5 day's a week , 52 weeks a year?? Tell me it's a typo?
The best I ever did was 7 days a week for about 3 months and then 6 days a week for about another seven months. That was 10 years ago. I'm finding that the solo jobs are just slowly evaporating as time goes by. Karaoke and cheap bands are multiplying like rabbits. I have months now that I can only find weekend work now. Everywhere I go I'm told I'm the best solo guy they've ever seen too. Damn, I must be in the wrong market!

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#116875 - 01/22/02 05:02 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
The "market" changes, and we have to also. In my collection of yearly jobs (I HATE the word gig ... sounds like a game)There is a wide variety of genres represented. I do some nursing homes, retirement centers, piano bars, dance clubs, corporate parties, cocktail parties, wedding services, wedding receptions, Bar/Bat Mitzvahs .... the list goes on. The key to longevity in this changing music scene is versatility. You need to have many hats and be ready to change them very quickly.

I don't do as many 1 hr shows (nursing homes etc.)as some of the other guys, because I have so many more "high intensity" type jobs that the afternoon shows just suck the wind out of my sails for the evening, but many players I know, do 1 or 2 almost every day. At an hour a pop, it's possible ... but I have a more intense schedule and try to avoid the doubles whenever I can. I do alot of doubles on the weekends, and that's PLENTY for me. I'm trying to reduce the number of engagements, while increasing the dollars as I get older. I need to be home more, and so far ... it's working out ok. My typical schedule gives me a steady $500-600 per week(Mon-Fri) WITHout private parties counted on weekends. Last year I did over 100 large scale dance/wedding type weekend parties at $600-750 per, and then there are all the little 1 hr jobs in between. ($100-125 each) That the best way I found to fill up the year with the numbers I need to feed my girls, and still be here to watch them eat.
It's almost to a point where I can just work the weekends and make ends meet. Not quite, but almost. After they all get married, I'm sure my wedding/party income will be plenty, so I can take off all week and visit my wife. Retirement??? NEVER! Not in the cards.
If you hustle - you can work as much as you want. The key is versatility. Be everything. (in other words ...act like your keyboards)
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#116876 - 01/22/02 05:27 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
arnothijssen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 255
Loc: Marietta, GA USA
I did not want to argue about who does the most jobs, etc. I am just trying to point out that a lighter keyboard and a small set-up is an imported issue for pro's like uncle dave and breakybird. For the regular guys with a full time day job, 1 music job a week is more then enough.

I was never a pro, and never will be. First of all, I am not that good, second there is not enough money in it unless you show up regulary on national tv.
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Arno Thijssen
mailto:arnothijssen2002@yahoo.com

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#116877 - 01/22/02 06:06 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Beakybird Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2227
This is impertinent to the topic, but to answer BossX's question, I do about 40 jobs a month, so about 480 jobs a year. My jobs are almost all one hour nursing home, senior gigs at $85-$150 an hour. I average just over $100 an hour. I really don't have the breadth of repertoire to do weddings or clubs, nor do I want to be around alcohol. I'm a teetotaler - into Eastern spirituality. The alcohol/smoking gigs would unsettle me, but the nursing home/assisted living gigs are just my cup of tea. It looks like if I went the Uncle Dave rout - if I were as talented as he was - I could double my income. Hopefully, I will get my act together with my songs (where I feel I have a lot of talent) and someday make an income with those.

On a pertinent note, I would like to belatedly thank George Kaye for making his report and acknowledge that I might be prematurely condemning the GEM Genesys keyboard. If the sound does go toward the audience, and if the voices are that incredible, then it might be an option for gigging musicians - perhaps slightly more muscular ones than me. I will have to hear the Genesys some day - several months from now when I pass by the Sound Post in Skokie, IL.

Larry

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#116878 - 01/22/02 07:03 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Hey Guys, IRS informants are monitoring this site[I'm going to make a bundle this year]....JUST KIDDING
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#116879 - 01/22/02 07:09 AM Re: Day #1-Just Back From NAMM
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Please don't take my tally as bragging. I was just trying to point out how the jobs are allocated and how the money goes around. In my area, I'm slightly higher priced than most of my competition, but I like it that way. I may loose 4 or 5 jobs each year to a "lesser priced" act, but I NEVER complain about loosing a job that would not satisfy my mininum requirements. I need to be happy at work too. That's when I'm at my best, and my clients recognize that and are willing to pay for it.
I'd hate not having a few days off every week - I need to recharge !
I'm sorry I mentioned the money - I was not trying to boast. My family is very typical - we spend about 10% more than I earn, no matter how much it is ! Like the ols country song says..."What a way to live"
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