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#106782 - 04/25/05 04:49 PM Volume Loss Problem - Help?
GlennT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1790
Loc: Medina, OH, USA
As if my larangitis wasn't bad enough, I had my first big time technical problem on the job today. As I was playing and singing, the volume gradually (over 2-3 seconds) dropped down to almost zero, then gradually came back up again. At first I thought it was the mixer, since it was being used for the first time. But after I took a 2 minute "break" and rerouted everything to bypass the mixer, it continued - intermitantly. Seems that it has to be either the KB or speaker. Now I'm at home and it's working fine!

I'm sure whatever it was will reappear and at the most inopportune time. Anyone ever experience this sudden fade out and in of volume? Any thoughts or ideas? Thanks.

Glenn

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#106783 - 04/25/05 07:01 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Glenn,

Intermittent problems are nearly impossible to diagnose, especially without seeing your rig first hand. Unfortunately, I don't have time to drive to Ohio to help you out right now, but if and when I get a week off, it may be on the adjenda. In the mean time, the best advivce I have is to try to duplicate the same conditions again, using the exact same cables, etc. Fading audio is usually a very bad sign of an amp heading south, and the culprit is frequently the amp's internal power supply.

Question: Is your mic fired through your keyboard, and if so, does the board have internal speakers so it could be monitored separately from the rest of the system?

If you're firing everything through a mixer, mic and keyboard separately, then that would be the logical place to look.

Like I said, kinda' hard to diagnose with so little information and not being able to see the rig up close and personal.

Good Luck,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#106784 - 04/25/05 07:23 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
GlennT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1790
Loc: Medina, OH, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
Question: Is your mic fired through your keyboard, and if so, does the board have internal speakers so it could be monitored separately from the rest of the system?


The mic goes thru the keyboard, no onboard speakers, then mic out to the amp. I just spoke with Tony Barbetta and if sounds like a master volume pot. Been trying to duplicate the problem all night, but no luck. It's determined not to do it again till I'm on a gig. (with a backup amp real close by!)

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#106785 - 04/26/05 04:52 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
btweengigs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 2204
Loc: Florida, USA
Glenn...
Weird things happen. Twice I lost the total audio signal from the keyboard. Turning it off and on again corrected it. Why? Dunno!

The only times I have experienced a drop in volume... it was because I accidentally hit the fade or talk buttons. (operator error)

Sorry to hear about your voice. I had a similar situation the last couple of weeks, which I think was allergy related. I eased up on the vocals, drank lots of tea & honey, gargled with gargly stuff...and it is much better now. Good luck with yours.

Eddie

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#106786 - 04/26/05 05:11 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
No speakers makes it a bit more difficult to diagnose, but not impossible. If you're playing a Tyros, there have been some reports from other forums of cold solder joints at the output jacks. If it drops out again, try gently wiggling the plug right at the output jacks and see if that solves the problem. If it does, it's a cold solder joint and can easily be repaired.

If this does not solve the problem, try turning the volume control back and forth and see if this changes things. If so, bad master volume control would be the likely suspect.

If neither solves the problem, there's always a possibility of a bad cable going to the amp, but if you're firing into a pair of Barbettas it's unlikely that both are defective.

Again, I'm working in the dark on this one, but hopefully you'll find the culprit and it won't be an expensive repair.

Good Luck,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#106787 - 04/26/05 07:48 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
btweengigs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 2204
Loc: Florida, USA
Gary's wife says he does some of his best work in the dark.
Eddie

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#106788 - 04/26/05 08:16 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Usually when someone asks "How's Gary?" she typically resonds "Better than nothin!"

Hmmmmmmmm! Wonder who she's comparing me to?

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#106789 - 04/27/05 05:03 AM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
MacAllcock Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1221
Loc: Preston, Lancashire, England
The worst sort of fault.

All I ever do is double check every cable I use, especially to see if there is any movement at all in between the parts of jack plugs. Movement of any kind in any direction is a no-no and the jack must be replaced.

A large proportion of all the signal faults I have ever had could be traced to a dodgy jack plug. I estimate I get 5 times as many jack failures compared to internal cable problems, and 5 times as many cable failures compared to XLR connector faults.

I now find the "moulded-on" jack-to-jack cables cheaper to buy than building a jack-to-jack cable from parts, and reliability is at least as good.

It's just unfortunate that XLR's are not fitted to keyboards until you get to "professional" priced units. If the jack outputs on my PSR 3k go dodgy I may well do some case butchery and fit an XLR output stage. However, credit where it's due, never had a problem with the output jacks on any of my three PSR's (630, 2k, 3k). I reserve judgement on the noisy volume controls, however (the 3k is OK so far)!
_________________________
John Allcock

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#106790 - 04/28/05 05:30 AM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
I think the definitive clue here would be the word "gradual". A bad cable would react totally not gradually. Pretty much the same with a master volume pot. One second you have signal the next none. Usually with bad cables and pots there are also associated bad noises along with the loss of sound ( pops, hiss, snaps, and crackles). You need to try another amp!

Tom
_________________________
Thanks,

Tom

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#106791 - 04/28/05 07:53 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
totally agree with tom, after many years running my own PA, my experience is they just stop without warning, usually at the worst possible moment...couple of questions..
are you running midi files at the time this happened? and if so can you single out the particular file?, also was it just the music that went down or did it include the mic? if it included the mic do you have any EFX or controlllers happening over the mic channel?

dennis

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#106792 - 04/28/05 08:23 PM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
GlennT Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1790
Loc: Medina, OH, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by manic2257:
are you running midi files at the time this happened? and if so can you single out the particular file?, also was it just the music that went down or did it include the mic? if it included the mic do you have any EFX or controlllers happening over the mic channel?


No midi file running. One keyboard (SD1) and 2 mics going into a Mackie mixer then into one Barbetta (powered) speaker.

I think I know what happened. This was the first time I had used the mixer, but I had not set it properly (zero the console, set the levels, etc) and was running too hot of a signal. I've been told that most amps have a built in protection circut to eliminate clipping and protect the speaker. I'll be using the same system tomorrow on the job, same way, but with properly setting the mixer. We'll see what happens.

A spare powered speaker will be close by and ready to go.

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#106793 - 04/29/05 01:58 AM Re: Volume Loss Problem - Help?
manic2257 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 172
Loc: australia
yep that's so glenn, the joys of new technology, in the old days you prob would've popped a cone..good luck (and good thinking with the spare amp )

peace, out

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